I recently just picked up this car dirt cheap and want to slap a turbos (lol use to working on 4 bangers) on it......I know about import turbo systems and what not but not about domestic.....for fuel management what will I need? Will an fmu supply enough fuel? I will just be doing low boost (under 10 psi) I know about the manifolds and other **** I can do.....its just the fuel management I need help with so please post up with what is the cheapest and reliable......eh don't really care about fast cause well its a beater anyways lol thanks for the help.

 

I would recommend a rising rate regulator and 24# injectors for your 3.1 with 10psi boost. Some may disagree with me, but the rising rate regulator (commonly called an FMU) is simple, cheap and effective. The 24# injectors are also cheap and commonly found on eBay- don't hesitate to buy the Ford racing units, as they are usually cheaper (I run ford racing 24# injectors in my tt Iroc- they will also fit in your 3.1).

Also, make sure your fuel pump is up to par. With the FMU, plan on needing 100psi for proper AF ratio. The stock pump may not be up to the task. I recommend testing the pump by pinching of the return line at idle. If the fuel pressure gauge does not read at least 100 psi, it certainly will not provide the neccessary fuel pressure at full load. Even if the pump passes this test, it still may not provide enough fuel at max load. Check the AF ratio, or at least insure the fuel pressure doesn't drop off at max load.

 

Thanks for the info! I kinda figured I would need an fmu and injectors. I can get those pretty cheap. As for the fuel pump, what brand do you recommend? I want to keep this on a low budget. Also I am just curious but what kind of hp can the rs automatic tranny take before it starts to break down? I will probably use some some small import turbos (14b maybe something a little bit bigger) on this project.

 

I plan on just cutting up the stock manifold and just using them.....much much cheaper lol!

 

14b will support alittle over 300hp on a 2.0 eclipse/laser/talon...

So on your 3.1 it may not be very efficient...but cheap. I would try to find a used big16g or even a small 16g at least and go from there. I know a guy who is selling a frank jr. 17c for about 200$. That would also work well.

 

Yeah I know they will probably die out at high rpm but like I said this is a budget kit get what I can cheap and GIT-R-DONE! lol If I happen to stumble upon two bigger turbos at a decent price I would buy them.. 14b t25 etc go for pretty cheap on ebay and rebuild kits aren't that much anyways.

 

lol please do not get GIT-R-DONE written across the window...Some fat guy around my area has it on a ranger with stick on flames....cool stuff

 

Doward used a single 14B to a degree of success with his 2.8 before the cam wiped.. upgraded to a 16G for the 3.1.. still single.. pending results, watch the V6 board for an idea of how this goes.

I'm using a single CT26 off a late-80s supra, so far my experience is that this turbo doesn't belong on anything smaller than a 3.4

FMU/24pph injectors is one way to go about this, but with the price you'll pay in rechipping for the 24pph injectors+fmu+fuel pump, you could go for a 24pph+2 bar map setup and probably come out at the same price without stressing your fuel system.

 

I don't think there would be a need to reprogram the ECM. The 24# injectors are only slightly larger than stock and should pose no drivabilty problems on the stock chip. If you went to 30# or larger injectors, problems may arise as the ECM tries to 'adapt' a proper AF ratio at part throttle. Sure a custom chip would be ideal, but that adds cost- not something desirable from the way he's talking!

 

I would recommend a holley in tank unit. They can be had new for a fair price from summit. You probably don't wont to skimp on an in tank pump because they are not super easy to swap out.

If you don't mind some fuel pump whine, you could add on an in-line pump. I have an in-line Vortec T-Rex pump (50GPH@70psi) on my TT Iroc, and it whines so much I plan on installing a 255lph Holley in-tank unit to quiet things down a bit. Of course with the in-line add-on pump, your factory pump must still be able to flow the volume, it just will not to produce the pressure AND the volume.

 

I am definitly going with the 24lb injectors and an fmu.....what fmu should I get? 10:1 12:1 adjustable? How much boost can a completely stock 3.1 handle? With some luck project GIT-R-DONE will be ready by Christmas!

 

Slightly?? Uhm... they're 60% larger. Stock 3.1 injectors are a measly 15#..

 

can sumone explain wut the fmu is an how it works?

 

Fmu (Fuel Management Unit) as I understand it it manages the fuel to air (vacume sp?) ratio i.e. 12:1, 10:1 they also have adjustable. So pretty much the more boost you have, the more fuel the Fmu pushes. As I understand it......please correct me if I am wrong. I hate being wrong lol.

 

Wow, that is a big difference. I didn't reaize the stock injectors were that small. In my TT L98 I went from the stock 19# units to 24# units with no problems- I just lowered the FP at idle to 38psi. Maybe 19# injectors would be the better choice.

Actually, for a mild turbo system the larger injectors may not be absolutly necessary. I originally recommended that just to be safe (a turbocharged engine will only run lean once!). I run my 89 cavalier 2.8 V6 at 6psi with nothing but a Cartech FMU (adj ratio) and obtain over .900v off the oxygen sensor. I have the regulator set to give 100 psi Fp at max boost. My cavvy also has a 255lph holley in-tank pump, as the stock pump only put out 70psi deadheaded.

 

The FMU is basically a boost refrenced fuel pressure regulator. They usually install in the return line between the stock fuel pressure regulator and the tank. The stock pressure regualtor controls fuel pressure under normal driving (not boosted). As boost pressure starts to come in, the FMU simply starts to restrict the flow of fuel to the tank. Since the fuel flow is restricted to the tank, the pressure rises and more fuel is pushed thru the injectors. Very simple and effective (for mild turbo systems anyway). The FMU cannot raise the pumps pressure capability. In other words, if your pump is only capable of 70 psi, there is no way the FMU can allow you to run 100psi of pressure. Make sure the pump is up to the task- high pressure and high flow volume puts a great demand on the pump.

 

I knew I was getting involved with this forum for a reason

You think that's bad, though.. 2.8 injectors are 13pph ... I'm pretty much static at 5 psi/5k rpm...

 

I'm glad you gave me this info. I was going to install 24pph injectors in my Cavalier turbo 2.8. That would have spelled trouble for sure!

BTW, how does your turbo 2.8 run in your camaro? Ever drag race it? What did you do for the fuel/spark control?

 

Moves like mad under boost. No chance to get ETs on it though... the car simply isn't reliable yet (engine damage via the turbo is the least of its worries.. engine was already pretty much toast). Fuel control is only via the MAF, hence my gripe about the static injectors. Spark control is nonexistant, but the motor doesn't seem to disagree at 5 psi. The only major thing I can note is the small journal 2.8s DO NOT respond well to excessive hp. Bearings started to die very quickly. Large bearing (87+) definitely a requirement.

Intended fuel/spark control before the new block is ready will be coming from a sy/ty '749 and hopefully 26pph GN injectors. No FMUs, no aftermarket boost retards.

 

It would be cool to see a really quick turbo 2.8 3rd gen. I get the crazy idea now and then to get serious with my cavalier. My best run so far was 14.7 at 94 MPH with a terrible 60ft (I only raced it twice). Although not very fast, it is promising I think. Besides, the car only weighs 2910 with me in it (under 2700 w/o me in)!! It shouldn't be too hard to embarrass some 5.0 mustangs and those imports. I already surprised a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution my last outing at the track. I had a better R/T, but he had a much better 60 ft. By the end of the 60 ft mark I had about 10ft on him, and he couldn't pull on me just until the last 100 ft or so. Nobody probably gets too excited about that, but it was the greatest drag race I ever had. My 174k mile, $3000 beater giving a $32,000 import a good run. He was faster than me, but it sure was exciting. I just wish I had my TT Iroc for that race- then he would have really been put in his place!

Anyway, I'm anxouis to see what a serious turbo 2.8 can do in a Camaro. Will you be posting progress here, or in the v6 forum?

 

V6 Forum mostly. Trying to avoid staying 2.8, though. 3.1 or preferrably 3.4 is definitely in the works since the turbo's a tad too big for the 2.8 and I need a new short block anyway.

For now, watch Doward if you want to see one really haul..