iam thinking about SCing my camaro and iam just wondering which one is better then the others? fitment,power,ease to install

and what type of engine stuff should i put in the motor? i dont want to run to much boost just yet.

 

Just remember the turbocharger is the most efficiant power adder avalible!! A supercharger takes HP to run but a turbo runs off of waste! Awesome isnt it.

 

i dont want a turbo. i dont want to do all the exhaust work for a turbo. thats why iam asking about super chargers.

 

theres not really much to do. Run both exhaust manifolds into a single 3" pipe to the turbo then run a 3" downpipe to the exhaust. Simple if you have a mig welder. Even better a tig welder.

 

Not true. Assuming no other changes, the back pressure that the turbine in the exhaust stream adds (typically 1.5-2x the boost pressure) costs more HP in loss of ve then the power used to drive a blower belt with many newer supercharger designs.

You get nothing for free.

 

Did you ever install/build a turbo system on a thirdgen? I love it when people say how easy something is without ever doing it themselves.

 

actually i have on an 89 firebird, an 87 iroc, and a 93 Z-28 All with carbs. I didnt see what your complaining about. If you have a carbed application it is easy. sure putting a supercharger on is easier BUT i make my living fabbing up brackets,custom exhaust, and High performance dyno tuning for the people around here.

 

LOL... you just proved their point... Im sure this guy does NOT do any of this for a living...

After having done a blower and turbo setup I can tell you that a Blower kit is HAND OVER FIST EASIER in every WAY SHAPE AND FORM.... I can add a blower kit and be done with the tuning all in the same DAY... cant say that about a custom turbo setup not even close...Unless we are talking total turbo hack job...But I dont do that kind of work...

 

i like positive displacement blowers...

most SC people on here like centrifugal blowers..


my suggestion to you is to look up what style of blower fits your goal best, and then work from there.

 

 

whatever you want to believe is your porogative. The main reason people raise the B.S. flag is because theyre just jealous of somebody's hard earned respect.

 

ive gave my input, nobody believes me so im done with this thread. great luck with the supercharger yamaha

 

maybe theres not alot of high performance "big c.i." cars around here but i do get to help with the Import scene.

 

Yes jealous... Guilty....LOLOLOLOL

 

Man, you hit the nail right on the head there. I thought your bio said you were a paint guy? and 21? Man, I am 24 and I dont expect people to think me a mastermind at engine building. Not saying that it necessarily takes age to make someone good at it, but I highly doubt you have the experience and respect of someone that has been doing it for 10-20-30 years.

 

so your experience is based on tuning r i c e r s?

 

I am gonna go out on a limb here and say you did not mean roots vs. cent. If I were to put a blower on a 3rd gen I would go with an ATI. ALL of their kits come with an intercooler and everything to hook up. Vortechs come complete but no intercooler. I don't know too much about the paxtons so I will not speak on them. Vortech makes a GREAT unit, but the intercooler with the ATI, and customer service is what has me sold on that. I am again going to assume. I am guessing you are running a TPI car. If so you can probably get away with close to 10lbs of boost with 24# injectors and a new fuel pump. I wouldn't go past 7-8 without an intercooler on a stock engine but people seem to do it. It's possible but I do not recomend it.

 

I beg to differ, the setup on my car was simple. I put the turbo on in one day. The exhaust took around a day to fab. Programming might be harder, but not much. Doing hooker long tubes and mufflex exhaust took just as long on a third gen.

 

I’m not usually one to start waving the BS flag (though I will tell people they are wrong when they are, those are 2 different things), but, well, let me see if I’m following:

You’ve got a 370 stroker (what you have stroked to 370 I don’t know since to get 370 out of an SBC by stroking you’re talking a completely custom crank and rotating assembly which makes no sense) with a BIG Garrett T-4 (no such thing, everything big on a T04 frame is aftermarket, usually using parts from a larger frame like a T06 or T08, the biggest Garrett T04 is good for about 450hp which doesn’t make sense for a serious stroker that should be making that NA), and you (how much butchering did you have to do to get a carb and especially distributor in the ’93?). Finally, you ask “which is better?”

Well, my reaction if even part of this is true, is look at the compressor maps for them, pick the one that matches what you want out of the engine package the best and make yourself a set of brackets to run it however you want and not be limited by the half assed kits out there. Of course, if a large fraction of what you wrote so far is true I don’t believe that you would be asking the question in the first place.

 

Your still Talking about FABBING SOMETHING VERSUS BOLTING IT ON... He did not say...Hey guys I am a FAB MASTER... what should I do to jack this car up.... HE asked about bolt on blower kits.... AND "EASE OF INSTALL" thus a reply of switch to carb fab a turbo kit and weld it all yourself does not really help...


I guess Ill take the retarded stance on this post to ALL FORUMS...

QUESTION on Suspension forum.... What type of LCA's should I buy???????

MY NEW ANSWER BASED ON THIS POST... DUDE dont waste your money... It is very easy to backhalf your car and install a 4 link suspension ...Thats what I did... EASY... I can do it in a day...

Question on BS forum.... My doctor says I have a brain tumor and I need to get it removed...who do you recommend..

My new reply after reading this>>>> DUDE I perform 6 or 7 of these operations a week...it takes me about 7 hours... All you need is a scalpel, a steady hand, and some stitches..

 

And you had a turbo specialist do you exhaust according to one of your recent posts.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ght=turbo+iroc

You say in that thread fabbing the exhaust was not going to be easy, what made you change your mind now? I guess it was easy to write out the check.

 

a 370 is a 350 crank offset ground to 3-9/16" stroke while taking the rod journals down to a small 2.0 rod size. My motor is using a 6" rod which enables me to use an OFF THE SHELF blower piston. I will be running the dart iron eagle S/S heads. It is a regular 350 block bored .060 over. This t-04 maybe even a t-06 ( i was told it was a T-04) came from a bigger transport vehicle. I have a buddy on a website i belong to (v8s10.org) that has one of the same turbos on the same setup as mine and it should be in the 11s. He says it makes boost anywhere you want it to.

 

I never said i did the exhaust. It did take 1 day though. If i had a good welder, i'm sure i would have done it. After seeing them do it, it really wasnt hard at all. But i figured it would be faster and cheaper to have it done, than buying a good welder and all the piping. I am going to do the intercooler piping though. Right now it has a getto *** pvc intake piping. It was easier and cheaper at the time. It does work but the pvc pipes blow of all the time with out a blow off valve.

 

FWIW Pressurizing PVC pipe is not a good idea.... PVC is not designed to hold static pressure...Especially under heat and high stress conditions.... Typically when PVC lets go it explodes sending little pieces everywhere which in past cases have injured and killed people....

There has been a lot of lawsuits and such based around people using PVC to hold pressurized air/other materials... I have a link somewhere that explains the technical aspect of what hapens with PVC when subjected to even low pressure in an unstable enviornment..

Id be making my metal IC tubes as soon as possible...

 

Didn't mean to flame you, just thought it seemed funny. Good luck fabbing your IC piping, its a lot of fun, but it takes time and a little tinkering to get it perfect. I don't think the original poster was into doing this type of work, it sounded like he was looking for a bolt on deal.

 

yea if he is looking for a bolt on app. we should refer him to BBSdesigns

 

BBSDessigns system would certainly make turbocharging a lot easier, but I think intake plumbing fabrication is still required.

 

i'm going to agree with mr. dude, a positive displacement sc is the way to go on a sb if budget is your main concern...which is for most of us. You can look into the 144ci or 172ci roots type sc from weiand and those 2 are 50 state smog legal too! and one of those kits is far cheaper than a centrifugal one ($1900-2100). I have nothing against centrifs because I have one on my car but if you just want to give your daily ride a little more kick without breaking the bank...you might want to look into the kits I mentioned.

 

yes guys iam looking for a SC not a turbo (will save the turbo stuff for a another time if i do a import nothing agaisnt turbos) and iam running TPI and yes would love to run a roots but will save that for a older camaro 69 . and with roots i would have to buy a diff. hood. Iam trying to give a stock look when its sitting. i know onces it starts the whine will give it away maybe i can pull it off by telling people its just a gear drive lol.

XJOSHX: what all do you have for the insides of your motor? and do you have any pics of your setup. you said close to 10lbs. is that with stock bottum end???

and anyone got sound clips with SC (not roots)??????


thank you everyone and i dont mean to act like turbos are bad cuz they are not its just not somthing i want to do right now....

 

Yeah, I have realized that the pvc right at the outlet of the turbo is starting to melt. I didn't think turbo outlet temps got that hot. I am starting to fab the metal i.c. piping as soon as possible.

 

ive had greater success by telling people my power steering pump is broken.


anyhoo, you sound like you already have your mind made up. you dont want a positive displacement blower because of hood clearance, and it has to be a supercharger, so other then fabbing a custom setup, your only option is a centrifugal blower.

and in that case, i prefer the procharger.

 

If he is concened about blower whine then Procharger is the LAST setup Id tell him to get.... Procharger are notoriously loud..

Personally I like the whine noise... vortech SQ models are pretty quiet but nothing out there is going to be whine free..unless you make some kind of silencer and fill the engine bay with dynomat... LOL

 

the local vortech car is much louder then the prochargers ive heard....


athough, at WOT, you can hear them both... and when the hoods up...

 

Vortech is a good company to go with. Here is a link to their site for a complete supercharget kit for any 1988-1992 GM 5.0 & 5.7 TPI F-Body.

Vortech Superchargers (click here)

Procharger is another good company to go with and i believe it to be the better company. Here is a link with a few different kits for you to choose from and each kit comes with an intercooler! I am going to get one of these for my 92 sometime in the future.

Procharger Superchargers (click here)

I hope your camaro is TPI. Im switching from TBI to TPI because TPI is just way better.

 

Yep...go to Maniacc's site. He has a real good clip of his but it is indeed loud. He's running a D1SC ProCharger, which I will be going to sometime in the future.

http://maniac.megamania.com/irocz/irocpage.htm


Ed

 

On the side of PVC pipe is printed the static pressure it will hold (required by IAPMO). Most schedule 40 PVC will hold 150psi burst pressure. If it indeed goes above this fracture point it will send shards in every conceivable direction or split longitudinally along a fracture point. The weak point of PVC is heat - at 110 deg. it starts to melt, blowing up like a balloon- and rather quickly pops. If you have to use plastic piping use CPVC (Heat rated). Again do not exceed 100psi even with CPVC...remember the flying pieces. Hummm....who's running 100 psi in a Blower. Turbos develop to much heat so forget the plastic with a turbo ...now that would be pfunny. ED, MSME.

 

In almost all cases, a turbo’s outlet temp will be lower at the same pressure then a supercharger. In both cases the outlet temp is dependant on compressor efficiency, and typically turbo has a higher compressor efficiency then the typical supercharger.

 

Really? I thought a turbo would put out hotter air since exhaust gas heats up the whole turbo. I could be wrong. It probubly depends on the supercharger style. I know Roots style heats the air alot, but i thought a centrifical would be cooler than a turbo.

 

That doesnt make any sense to me either. I can remember when my uncle took the insulation out from under the hood of his 78 buick regal. It had the factory turbo v6 in it, and the turbo burned the paint on the topside of the hood. I dont think I have ever seen a SC do that before.

 

Sure a turbo puts off a lot of heat from the exhaust turbine side, but the heat added to the intake air is from compressor inefficiencies. The air pulls very little heat from the warm compressor housing. Think about it- how long is the air is inside the compressor housing when at full boost? Maybe a millisecond? Not much heat transfer is going to happen.

 

This is true. Good point.

 

Exhaust temp doesn’t have much influence on the charge temps. If you want to feel hot, try to cover the outlet of a supercharger with your hand while it’s running. As the boost pressure goes up from you blocking the outlet you’ll burn the palm of your hand.

Or just grab one of the charge pipes after a hard run, or even the plumbing in between the compressor head and tank from your garage air compressor. All will result in the same thing, a burnt hand.

 

Years ago I made an intercooler by wrapping a coil of copper pipe to make a long tube for intake air. This 40' of 1/8 copper made a 3"dia. x 3.5' long tube when all soldered together. Final end crimped shut, and front end of tubing connected to a compressed air bottle. I drilled very tiny holes (1000's of them) all along the copper tubing on the outside. When I released the compressed air all along this copper coiled pipe through those little holes this whole pipe froze making a very efficient intercooler. By the way it was only good for short runs at the drag strip because when the compressed air ran out it would warm up quickly. The opposite is also true...when you are compressing a gas the heat transfers out, being transferred from the gas (air) being compressed to whatever is surrounding it (natural phenomenon), add this to the transfer of exhaust heat close in the same assembly all of that adds to heat build up in the total assembly. It's still my opinion that PVC is not the piping to use for auto charging systems. Thanks for the listen, Ed.