just wandering if any one has got this kit http://www.swappedandboosted.com/ind...products_id=10 if so does it work with the third gen f bodys? if not are there any kits out there that will work ?

 

twins are the only way ''I'' Would turbocharge a tbi! I think the motor dies at 4500? So the twins could help you spool sooner and beable to make some power faster. This kit really looks nice!!!



P/S This is just my opinion!

 

I hate to bump an old thread but you have absolutely no idea as to what you're talking about.....

 

TBI + TT, is just a bad idea in general

 

It sounds like your a *******! IAm trying to have a positive attitude towards someone with a bad start."tbi' YES IT WOULD BE EASIER TO JUST SAY RIP THAT "TBI" OUT AND REPLACE WITH A CARB AND GO FROM THERE.If someone wants a turbo in a third gen with a tbi. It"s better to go with 2 small turbos then one big turbo on a motor that only turns 4800 rpms stock!! That all iam trying to say..Maybe you dont know what your talking about 89gta?

 

Once again...
No idea what hes saying does he?

 

maybe i dont !!!!!Ive never had the misfortune of buying a tbi. Yes i know they have cast pistions. And thats not idea for FI.It would of been easier to just say DONT BUY THAT BULL SH## KIT AND JUST DROP A LS1 IN THERE.

 

Where did I say ANYTHING about dropping in a LS1 or anything of that sort?

You're a ****ing idiot(see, I can through vulgar insults out too). I said nothing about cast pistons, I said nothing about TBI sucking....you're making that assumption. Now keeping on recommending "twin turbos" because it makes you sound so super cool that you answered a tech question.

 

darn kids that think a ebay turbo kit is all they need to do a good set up and ir a inexpensive mod. Even more thinking it will wake up a lo3 over doing heads cam intake and tune. Stick to the basics and read the darn stickies and doing a search.

 

a turbo will wake up the 305 thats what i'm working on but you still need to do the internal work as far as forged rods an pistons . plus you need to put better heads an cam also . i'm just not sure you can use tbi .

 

Why is it a bad idea???

Do it... I want to see it done, I would do it if I had a TBI car to play with (well I'd do a single but that's just because I think the 2 of everything needed for a twin gets to be a pain).

Air and fuel delivery are always an issue when trying to build up a TBI, if you can get around them there are definitely advantages, especially for a mild setup.

Air- well with a turbo that gets taken care of

Fuel- larger injectors, higher than stock fuel pressures and auxiliary fueling (check out the vortec supercharger setup for them, they mount a plate with 2 injectors below the throttle body, you can also do a bunch of other things, worst case, a N2O fogger an solenoid that opens with boost..., look around, there's tons of solutions)

 

As far as cast pistons go... they all have cast pistons till they all got hypereutectic (which is still cast), what's your point?

As far as rpm limits... TPI cars run out of rpm (usually at about 4600-4800) well before TBI cars, and its easier to fix on TBI cars, just the basic TBI mods and you find some more rpm, on a TPI car it's the long runners and everything being a small cross section that you can't get around without replacing everything.

 

TBI + thirdgen is a real bad idea all together....

 

Its not a bad system, it's pretty reliable for what its intended usage was, however from a performance base standpoint its not very well suited. Speed density systems are not all that easy to tune even with a wide band... even if you can determine whats going out of the tail pipe you can't exactly determine whats going in, you would almost need a MAF for tuning... Its hard enough to dail in a lager cam good luck with a turbo.

 

I think what kornuts was saying was twin turbos generally have a shorter spool time, so it would be better than a larger lagging turbo, although like pointed out a TBI can turn some RPMs when done correctly.

I would not want to do this swap, BUT I would like to see this done.

ps. I have a good couple fuel enrichment options for sale!(FMU, FIC)

 

RPM doesn't always play into when/where a turbo is at full spool....it's all about the proper sized turbo for your set up.

Twin turbos sounds super cool(if you were in the Hon-duh crowd) but isn't necessary.

 

Of course they aren't needed and for this application most likely a single small sized turbo would be fine. I was just explaining what I think he was trying to say.

Most of the Honda's I know run big singles

 

That's exactly what he was trying to say, you're right.

....as far as my Hon-duh comment, yeah most I know run big single too but the average Hon-duh owner(aka a complete idiot) thinks twins are mad phat super cool(or something like that).

 

I agree on the single. With twins, one always restricts the other..... Twins usually hit harder though. I was in a twin turbo C5 recently and there was NO turbo lag, almost instant full boost at WOT. I guess it really depends on what you're doing with the car.

 

mad phat super cool? your a dweeb man. hes a new guy and your insulting him for asking a question and bringing Hondas into the equation out of nowhere, that could figuratively dump on your pro-charged firebird. there's twin turbo charged v8 Ferraris maybe that's were he got the idea from.

 

Awesome man, some goober who has 3 posts feels the need to bump a month old thread that as been dead for just as long...go you.

I see reading comprehension isn't your strong point. I was picking on kornnuts who was completely talking out of his ***, not the OP....so I highly suggest you go back, read the thread and have a warm cup of STFU or go write down how you'd "figuratively dump on my pro-charged firebird"

For one it's Procharged, for two I have a GTA.

Now run along little boy, this thread is done.

 

reading comprehension? I didnt say I would dump on your GTA excuse me it looks just like a firebird fruitloop. I said how a mad phat super cool turbo honda would.

 

Are you done now? I mean really....you bumped a thread just to start drama. Go you.

 

To Mr know it all a.k.a"fly89gta"
You can turbo anything if you have all the supporting modds and the skills to fab it up!! You still are not understanding what i was trying to say! Turbo's need 'load' and the sooner you can get it and keep it on there the better his set-up will be!!!
Now i see that you are just a bully! You must be getting off by picking on members with low post numbers.Just because you have more posts then me does not make you any better, then me or any other 'GOOBER' on here.

 

No **** Sherlock, I've owned a turbo car, a Fbody nonetheless. What YOU don't get is that you don't need twin turbos to make it work which is in rebuttal to your first post in this thread when you said it's the only way you could turbocharge a TBI which is just not true.

Yeah dude, I "get off" by picking on members with low post counts. I rarely even look at that. What does post count have to do with ANY of this discussion? Where did I mention post count anywhere aside from responding to an unprovoked attacked by someone that had no intention of adding any info to this thread? He had nothing to add to thread aside from starting drama. You lose, again. So just stop. Is that your only comeback? Post count references? REALLY? I was debating the need for twin turbos, stay on track. It's obvious you can't provided any info/facts to support a claim(a claim that many others may read and be misinformed because of it)....so you're talking out of your ***. So keep thinking I'm "attacking" people with low post counts. I'm just attacking people who have no clue and are recommending things just to sound cool.

 

i'm going with a t70 or 60-1 single on my 305 tbi camaro . after alot of research i think the tbi will be jus fine with the boost i'm gonna run . you'll need a way to control the fuel , i'm going with the dynamic efi . i'm still deciding on which exhaust a/r to run . i'm thinking either a .84 or a .96 . i think a .63 would be to small for a v8 but i'd like to hear other opions on this .

 

Haveing owned a tbi car... well still same car i just took out the clutter..lol go ahead and strap a TWIN turbo setup on there.. but dont cry to is when it dont run worth anything or when theres piston chunks laying on the ground from an extremely lean condition...

 

why would it run leaner than a carb ? i realize a direct port injection is the ideal way to run forced induction but i don't see why tbi would be worse than a carb . please explain ....

 

i found this https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...blow-thru.html i guess if you really wanted to put the time and money into it it could be done. You cold do a very stout 350 multi port setup for less money than you'll have in this.. but hey to each is own

 

Wow... Neither of you know what you're talking about. And the insults? I guaruntee you wouldn't be throwing (not "throughing"...) vulgar insults at each other in person. This is why I hate threads. Someone posts a thread with either a question or something they'd like some input on and people like YOU get on there and try to show your *** because you're all big and macho behind that keyboard. This thread is for helping the individual who posted it, not to bash other people on their know-how, or in this case their know-not. Now I know you will probably start bashing me now (even though I'm just making a COMPLETELY valid point. And you're going to try feebly to make yourself sound right, when you're wrong) so I will just tell you now, I won't be replying to you anymore unless you have a lagitmate question or input. Because that's what this thread is for.

 

Only thing I can come up is the fact the quantity of fuel flowing from a carb normally aspirated and possibly forced is that the quantity of fuel delivered is related to manifold vacuum and under forced a manifold pressure. May a carb be therefore more forgiving?

TBI fuel is controlled by VE tables or fuel pressure changes(VAFPR with changing base pulse constant) and not related to manifolld vac or positive pressure.

 

One always restricts the other??? What the hell does that mean?

OK, this whole thread is full of trash..., let me sum up facts:

- Twin vs single: same as any other v8, all other things being the same, a larger turbo will be slightly more efficient, 2 smaller turbos will have less inertia so they'll spool slightly faster. Which is better? REALLY, whichever one you can package better, that will have a bigger impact on performance than which one you chose

- TBI and boost:
Tuning is the same as any other speed density setup. You need a MAP sensor that will see more than one bar, and you need to be running an ecm that is programmed for the range of the MAP used (they all basically have a 0-5VDC output range, just what that voltage means depends on the pressure range that sensor is setup to read). There are various modified factory setups and aftermarket that will work, just like any other speed density FI setup
TBI FPR isn't vacuum referenced because it doesn't need to be, the injectors are above the manifold so they don't see manifold vacuum. The FPR is located with the injectors and again, doesn't see vacuum. In a turbo setup you'll put a bonnet over the TB, or enclose the whole thing in a box. The injectors and FPR still won't see vacuum, but will see boost and will add fuel pressure (PSIA) with boost. Just like with a port setup, that DOES NOT mean that you're adding fuel with boost, that just means that the relative pressure of the fuel vs the area is maintained so fuel flow is consistent with the programming. If the side of the injectors that is exposed to the airstream sees pressure (positive or negative), you have to modify the fuel pressure on the other side by the same amount to maintain consistent flow across the injector). In other words, if the system is setup to see a pressure differential of 45psia across the fuel injectors to see the predicted flow, If the airflow side sees 10psi boost, you have to add 10psi to the fuel pressure to maintain the same flow across the injector.
Is there a problem with running boost with a TBI setup? Not any different than any other performance application. To make more power you have to figure out how to add airflow and the appropriate amount of fuel to make power. Adding boost gives you the airflow, bigger injectors, more FP and programming adds the fuel. In the case of TBI this gets harder faster because there aren't as many available large injectors. For more mild setups, big block injectors and higher fuel pressures will work just fine for adding fuel (again, with appropriate programming), for more serious setups, you'll probably hvae to add auxiliary injectors (look at the vortec supercharger setups for TBI vehicles for one idea how to deal with this, they use a spacer plate under the manifold with a couple of aux injectors in it).
Is there an advantage to running a TBI setup with boost? Yep, it has both the advantages of a carb and a port injected setup. Like a carb, injecting fuel further upstream has a bit of an intercooling affect so you can typically run a little more boost without detonation. Like a port FI setup, TBI is tunable for it's full performance range, not just a couple of points in the curve like a carb is.

So, if it's that easy, why don't more people do it? I DON'T KNOW. My guess:
- most people that know how don't have one to start with
- most that don't know how and decide to try it hear all this noise and give up
- it's easier to do what everyone else does rather than learn and think, lets face it, people are basically lazy and stupid, that prevents a lot of things from ever getting done, not that they are not possible or won't work.

So what's the limit? Donno, how much money do you want to throw at it? A stock big block TB flows around 645cfm, that will feed a 305 to over 8000rpm with enough air to make around 950hp at about 15psi boost. Max out a set of big block injectors + 2 160pph auxiliary injectors will just barely give you enough fuel to feed that. Build a bottom end that will tolerate that and you can get that setup to feed that.... Have a more serious or just bigger bottom end? OK, more boost will get you more air (or heck, you can start getting into custom boring and sleeving of the TB, or 2 TB's At one point my brother ran 2 ford TBI throttle bodies on a modified edelbrock dual quad intake manifold, BTW, ford TB's run what are very close to standard port injection style injectors, so you could with minor mods run 160lb injectors at the correct pressure for them), add another 160lb injector and you can feed almost 300hp more.

 

Very good post by the way.

An alternative to the "auxiliary" injectors is to add N20 into the mix![IMG][/IMG]

 

_really_ if you want to do it dirt cheap, for a mild setup an FMU will work (I would actually modify a second FPR inline after the factory one since you really need a very low rising rate, less than most aftermarket FMU's have), OR, if you want to do it the brute force way, just the fuel side of an N2O setup (fogger nozzle and solenoids) with the correct hp jets installed triggered on a hobbs switch that closes the circuit at a set boost. Heck, on a fairly serious setup you could get away with a staged setup, say on a 250hp engine (NA) and 15psig boost, one hobbs/solenoid/fogger/150hpfuel jet set to come on at 2-3psi, and a second one to come on around 8-12psi. With start with them set to come on on the low end of the boost range, which on a setup that builds boost slowly will probably cause a bog, and then turn up the the trigger level till it runs smooth.

It wouldn't be as sexy as a properly managed FI setup, but it would work and you could go really fast doing it. (of course, it's sacrilege to suggest that you could go fast without spending $$$ on the "right" setup and parts...)

 

Ronnie, is that a specter carb hat in that picture? Is it thick enough to survive some boost?

 

I have seen people get flamed on the other forums but usually we cut people some slack on here.

 

TBI as it was done in the 80's wasn't too hot beyond making the car run period. Fast355 has made the OEM setup sing like a canary with the use of the EBL, but his results are few & far between for most of us:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ferrerid=35855

However, thats not to say TBI doesn't have the TT potential. The EBL supports FI, and the new Holley HP EFI 4-bbl self-tuning TBI system can handle boost:

http://www.holley.com/550-412.asp

So, TBI as it comes stock can't hack a TT setup. But some aftermarket goodies or new TBI systems can.

 

Yes signif thick. Sprectre products on EBay. That was the low profile version with (2)1/2 inch aluminum o ringed spacrers to clear 7.4L TB linkage. The nozzles are epoxied into hat as I felt I needed no leaks.

 

Why am i having a hard time with this picture? When did they put TBI (besides cross fire) in C-4 vettes?

 

I did the "conversion" about 5 seasons ago. First conversion was CF to XRam. Then I pulled that and went to 7.4L GM TB with Holley Projection TBI manifold.

 

Now i understand, haha. Hows the big block tb and holley intake work?

 

Best of the three. Cold environment in WI. XRam did not work out too well due to lack of plenum heat.

Edelbrock RPM heads 64cc, comp cams 224/230 @ .05 roller rockers 80 lbs injectors with Aero FPR dual ext w crossover into hooker aerochambers, Innovate WB w/ controller, EBL-ECU, etc.