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Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 12:18 PM
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Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

I would like to add a T76 to my HE351VE setup.

I installed the HE351VE with an after market cast manifold (gale banks) and made a T3 (gale banks manifold outlet) to HE351VE adaptor out of 1/2'' flanges and 3mm stainless. Its worked well over the past year.
I fabricated everything but the banks manifold and the turbocharger my self.
The adaptor I made is a good solid mount for one big turbo charger. I feel that 2 would be pushing it since EGTs can see 900'F for extended times.

The reason I picked the T76 is its about 30% bigger than the HE351VE, should make a good atmospheric turbo for my diesel.
I only need to the T76 to feed 5 to no more than 10psi into the HE351VE.
This is good because at 9,000 feet you only have about 10psi of atomospheric pressure to work with (I miss living at sealevel).

This isn't one of those 3,000 horsepower diesel builds that runs 130psi of boost tho this turbo combo could support well over 1,000hp. I am looking to get no more than 25psi out of it and keep the engine horse power out put well under 300hp, so the air and exhaust piping does not need to be anything special.

The point of adding the T76 is to increase driveability above 9,000ft, be able to provide power when I need it and preserve fuel economy.
When I moved from sealevel to where I am now (4,400ft) my diesel was non-turbo, I lost a lot of pulling power and 2.5mpg. I put the HE351VE on last year and got all the pulling power back and then some and got most of my 2.5mpg I lost due to the thin air.

Over on dieselplace no one uses anything bigger than an holset HX40, holset H1C or HE351VE and some smaller holsets. They don't use Garretts very much. No one has anything against them, its just that holset take offs are dirt cheap. I bought my HE351VE off creigs list for $160.
I see that Garretts are favored here.

I need to get oil to and from the T76.
I believe it has a standard T4 oil drain flange, the same as the HE351VE's oil drain (if not please let me know).
I am not sure how to get oil into the turbo. It looks like it uses a flange fitting. Whatever it is I am going to need one.

Oil question 1: I searched "T76 oil feed" on ebay and it looks like all the T3, T4, T70, T76 use the same restricted oil flange fitting is this correct?

Since the T76 will be the secondary turbo charger it shouldn't see exhaust tempertures higher than 700'F or 800'F ever, heat wont be a problem for this oil cooled only turbo.

Oil question 2: The garretts are oil cooled and cooling won't be an issue for a secondary turbo used on a diesel what is the minimum size oil restrictor I can use?
(the HE351VE is using a .030'' or .035'' screw in restrictor at the moment)

Exhaust question: I am not sure what the T76 uses on the down pipe side of the turbo. It appears to be a 4'' V-band but I don't know for sure.
What down pipe flange should I be looking for?
(I would like to stick with stainless steel)

Lastly if anyone has a used large inducer T76 with a big non-divided exhaust housing that isn't a chinese knock off and you are looking to sell, let me know.

Last edited by oil pan 4; Apr 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM.
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 12:48 PM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

I cant comment on the compound turbo builds because i am not quite there yet in understanding those setups but they seem to be primarily used in diesel aps with ultra high boost levels like you describe. I dont see the advantages off the top of my head for compound boosting at low boost levels, as i have seen some single turbo diesels make big numbers. Others are twins

However the other questions i can assist lol. What model t76 are you considering? What exhaust side? T4 with a bigger turbine wheel? Most smaller t4's use a 3" down pipe connection but larger ones are usually 4" for the garretts. My buddys gt4202 was a 4". Stick to vband connections as they are easy to work with. I dont think the garretts require anything special for vbands

Heat wont be a problem. Gas cars see 1300 deg plus and no issues with those turbos. Lol my car idles 700 deg. I run turbo diesel oil in my car and havent noticed any issues with heat. Runs hot but stable.

Oil feed can be a flange type that bolts to oil feed port and it will contain a -4 AN male end on flange for feed line. Or you can buy a 1/8 npt i believe threaded fitting that has -4 AN male end on other side and use that directly into turbo. Not as clean looking as a flange tho.

Whats your oil pressure like? Ball bearing turbos use restrictors often but journal bearings typically dont if you are under 80 psi. It seems pressure kills seals more than volume will.
I would ask garrett for recommendation on restrictor size. I never ran them
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 04:44 PM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
I cant comment on the compound turbo builds because i am not quite there yet in understanding those setups but they seem to be primarily used in diesel aps with ultra high boost levels like you describe. I dont see the advantages off the top of my head for compound boosting at low boost levels, as i have seen some single turbo diesels make big numbers. Others are twins

However the other questions i can assist lol. What model t76 are you considering? What exhaust side? T4 with a bigger turbine wheel? Most smaller t4's use a 3" down pipe connection but larger ones are usually 4" for the garretts. My buddys gt4202 was a 4". Stick to vband connections as they are easy to work with. I dont think the garretts require anything special for vbands

Heat wont be a problem. Gas cars see 1300 deg plus and no issues with those turbos. Lol my car idles 700 deg. I run turbo diesel oil in my car and havent noticed any issues with heat. Runs hot but stable.

Oil feed can be a flange type that bolts to oil feed port and it will contain a -4 AN male end on flange for feed line. Or you can buy a 1/8 npt i believe threaded fitting that has -4 AN male end on other side and use that directly into turbo. Not as clean looking as a flange tho.

Whats your oil pressure like? Ball bearing turbos use restrictors often but journal bearings typically dont if you are under 80 psi. It seems pressure kills seals more than volume will.
I would ask garrett for recommendation on restrictor size. I never ran them
This isn't an all out horsepower build. If the engine is fueled enough the HE351VE by its self would have no problem suppling enough boost to blow a 6.5L with 22:1 compression like I have to bits.
I would like the exhaust side to be a single hole T4, I I believe the single T4s are more for high volume exhaust. As turbos boost the engine displacement is quickly going to go from alittle under 400 cubic inches to 800ci then 1000.
Plus I have a nice 1/2 stainless single hole T4 flange to use in my turbo collection.

I would like a used turbo with a T4 flange that has a big housing, at least a 0.9 A/R ( think they go all the way up to 2+ A/R). You say the the T4 exhaust side housing uses a standard 3 or 4 inch v-band, that sounds good to me.
Downpipe size really doesn't matter because I have some 3'' a 3.5'' and a few 4'' stainless V-bands flanges from digging around in the scrap yard.
I would have to buy a 4'' v-band clamp.
Based on the T76 selection I see it looks like I will most likely end up with a 3'' flanged turbo.

I am glad to hear Garrett doesn't make funky custom V-bands for everything, like holset does.

Oil pressure is 10-15 at ldle when warm and 40 to 50 driving down the road.

There was a guy that did medium pressure twin sequential build on an isuzu diesel and got good results. I am just doing my own scaled up version of that 4cyl isuzu, with more power, more towing and so on.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 12:19 AM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

I ordered up a ball bearing T76, oil flanges, found my stainless T4 flange and extra stainless HE351VE downpipe flange, I am going to try to reuse the old HE351VE down pipe. I am going to save the fresh flange incase I screw up.
This should be fun.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 12:50 AM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

welcome to my world , i currently reside at 6,500 ft above seal level.
im currently in a situation just like u alebit its a gas engine so im doing a single gt45 set at 9psi just to get me back to the powerlevel i would have at sealevel + an additional 30-50 hp

im curious as to why the compound setup? wouldnt the single turbo makeup for ur lost power alone and be much simpler setup
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 04:19 PM
  #6  
oil pan 4's Avatar
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

Yes the single HE351VE is more than enough turbo to blow that 6.5L diesel engine to bits.

I read about a guy that took an isuzu turbodiesel, put it in a toyota truck, then happened to get a second larger size turbo, approate for doing sequential on his setup for free. Added the second turbo and experanced more power, with the same amount of fuel going into the engine, had better driveability all around and picked up 2mpg. I have a metric I put togehter that says if I can get 1mpg for under $250 it will pay for its self in 2 years. The cheaper it is to pick up the one single MPG the sooner the mod will pay for its self. Anything much over $250 per MPG the pay off just gets too far out.

Adding a second turbo to pick up additional fuel milage should be possible.
Adding the single turbo caused my normal day to day drive to go up up 2.2 to 2.5mpg over this time last year. Highway tho there have only been a few road trips are showing up to a 3mpg improvement over last year.

My mechanical engineer friend agrees, if we can put that last bit of waste heat to work coming off the holset it should boost MPGs.
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Old Apr 30, 2013 | 12:14 PM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

You think there is anything to gain in just working the current tune on the motor? Could there be hidden mpg in there? Considering heat management are the hotside pipes well insulated?

If you biturbo and see more power on less fuel, i think that may be in part due to a lean out issue. If the air charge off the second turbo is cooler due to better compressor efficiency, that can help power but will lean out a motor if previously tuned for higher temps and if there is no fuel offset compensation. Just my thoughts.

More piping and mass in the engine bay is more to haul around. Vehicle weight is important in mpg.
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Old May 1, 2013 | 12:04 AM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

I need to check the timing since it was a brand new timing chain, 20,000 miles ago.

I have already caluclated that 100lb will make the difference of between 0.1 and 0.2 MPG. The second turbo will only add about 30lb.

The turbine housing and turbo manifold are ceramic coated, the cross over pipe and HMMVW header are not coated.
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Old May 17, 2013 | 08:56 AM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

I got the T76 on the back of the HE351VE and it works great.
It always has boost, its instantly there when I start from a stop.
Still runs 13-14 psi, but I have added about 8 more feet of piping and an intercooler.
I ceramic coated the T76 housing, once I run the the HE351VE to T4 adaptor elbo for a little bit longer I will check it leaks then header wrap it.

It looks something like this:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-...ml#post4775495
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Old May 30, 2013 | 01:36 PM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

Very interesting. Let us know how it continues to work as you keep working on it. Better pics to of the finished product
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Old May 30, 2013 | 07:50 PM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

Here is what it looks like now. Oil drains are all hooked up so are coolant lines.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-...ml#post4785636
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Old Jun 6, 2013 | 10:04 PM
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Re: Garrett questions for Sequential build (T76 on HE351VE)

I hooked up a second boost gauge inbetween the outlet on the T76 and the inlet of the HE351VE.
Looks like the T76 is doing about 2/3 the work. Both boost gauges read the same until about 2 or 3 PSI. By the time the T76 was putting out 6psi the holset took that 6psi and turned it into 10psi. Then at max power the T76 was putting out 9psi and the holset bumped it up to 14psi.
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