ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Last edited by ZZ3Astro; Sep 23, 2015 at 11:47 AM.
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
i think an stuff is actually sized off of the tubing sizes it would connect to.... which is measured in o.d.... so the i.d. measurements of the a/n fittings and hose ends could vary somewhat by manufacturer.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
People who say you have problems obviously dont own turbo cars.....
Hell i've seen hard run na motors do that. What do you expect? Exhaust gas is 1200-1500 deg and under pressure in turbo car. Thats exactly what makes steel glow
Hell i've seen hard run na motors do that. What do you expect? Exhaust gas is 1200-1500 deg and under pressure in turbo car. Thats exactly what makes steel glow
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Utah
Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
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Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
post a datalog!!!!!!!!!
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Windsor Ontario
Car: 1987 Z28
Engine: 2005 5.3L, LS6 Cam
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: DTS 9" 3.50 TrueTrac
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
I feel you are exaggerating the prices a bit. Most of that stuff can be done for MUCH cheaper. I was at that point with my last Iroc and parted it. Basically bc I wanted to do full suspenion and paint. Sold it all for a C5 Vette and look at me 5 years later back doing the same thing (somewhat) to another 87 Camaro.
Jay
Jay
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
yea its a little exaggerated.
on the engine, its gonna be pretty expensive any way you look at it. if it were me, i would probably do an shp block and a fairly budget forged 400-ish with the big bore. put some nice 210-220cc heads on it along with a nice intake/tb and it should easily make 1000 with the right turbo. (and be pretty reliable)
or you could shoot for 700hp and make it much cheaper. using stock block and other cheaper parts.
trans- th400 with 3.08 gear instead of the overdrive.
save a grand or so and some weight/parasitic loss.
rear- typical bolt in 9" or 12 bolt with an eaton/auburn diff. you could get away with 31 splines for awhile. you wont notice much parasitic losses here.
on the engine, its gonna be pretty expensive any way you look at it. if it were me, i would probably do an shp block and a fairly budget forged 400-ish with the big bore. put some nice 210-220cc heads on it along with a nice intake/tb and it should easily make 1000 with the right turbo. (and be pretty reliable)
or you could shoot for 700hp and make it much cheaper. using stock block and other cheaper parts.
trans- th400 with 3.08 gear instead of the overdrive.
save a grand or so and some weight/parasitic loss.rear- typical bolt in 9" or 12 bolt with an eaton/auburn diff. you could get away with 31 splines for awhile. you wont notice much parasitic losses here.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Last edited by ZZ3Astro; Sep 23, 2015 at 11:49 AM.
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
i just filled out an order on spohn.net for a bolt in 35 spline moser 9"with nodular center section, detroit locker and 3.25 gear. (and a couple extras) total was $3090. i would assume freight would be about $150-200 or so. that is more rearend than you would ever need, and should NEVER break. or, you could do it cheaper with a bolt in housing/axle package and used nascar center section with detroit locker.
there will actually be more than $1k in savings going to a th400 over a 4l80e once you start getting into the torque converter. a GOOD converter for a 400 is $900. a good one for a 4l80 is double that if you want to retain the lockup function. i know that a th400/3.08 combo is a good driving setup, and has been used on dragweek with around 1500hp. -and went 7.80's in the 1/4 at 3,000 lbs raceweight with a twin turbo 408.
to make 7,8,900+ hp and make it live, you will have to replace all your stock drivetrain for sure. gotta decide if thats what you want. with some upgrades, i still think your car could look/drive the same as it does now with 7xx hp if you wanted it to using that turbo. mid-low 9 second car. stock stuff on any production car will not be reliable at that level, so you will have to do all this rigamaroo to whatever chassis you might be considering. you could do an ls motor, but you'll be building the bottom end and putting some better heads on it too. and those great flowing production heads dont have a very thick deck and only 4 head bolts per cylinder. if you want to make 1khp with an ls, you will want aftermarket heads with thick decks.
700ish hp could be fairly reliable, though with a stockish ls.
there will actually be more than $1k in savings going to a th400 over a 4l80e once you start getting into the torque converter. a GOOD converter for a 400 is $900. a good one for a 4l80 is double that if you want to retain the lockup function. i know that a th400/3.08 combo is a good driving setup, and has been used on dragweek with around 1500hp. -and went 7.80's in the 1/4 at 3,000 lbs raceweight with a twin turbo 408.
to make 7,8,900+ hp and make it live, you will have to replace all your stock drivetrain for sure. gotta decide if thats what you want. with some upgrades, i still think your car could look/drive the same as it does now with 7xx hp if you wanted it to using that turbo. mid-low 9 second car. stock stuff on any production car will not be reliable at that level, so you will have to do all this rigamaroo to whatever chassis you might be considering. you could do an ls motor, but you'll be building the bottom end and putting some better heads on it too. and those great flowing production heads dont have a very thick deck and only 4 head bolts per cylinder. if you want to make 1khp with an ls, you will want aftermarket heads with thick decks.
700ish hp could be fairly reliable, though with a stockish ls.
Last edited by DIGGLER; Sep 1, 2014 at 09:37 AM.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
ORLY? Well that makes it a bit less painful! I will do some math this week! Thanks for the offer sir!
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
No problem, I want to help you spend some money! Lol. Still consider a bolt in axle/housing package from moser and a used nascar center section. Go to roushyatesparts.com and check them out. $850 will get you a nodular center, lightened gear, billet 1350 steel yoke, and detroit locker. Those will be 31 spline, which would also be fine for your car. There is a 3.07 ratio on there right now.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Windsor Ontario
Car: 1987 Z28
Engine: 2005 5.3L, LS6 Cam
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: DTS 9" 3.50 TrueTrac
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Just so ya know you can build a quick performance 9" with a locker or posi for 2500-2900 with a strange center section and 35 spline axles. Thats with a back brace. even cheaper if you wanna use a refurbished ford center section. But i think 31 spline is the limit.
Jay
Jay
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Jay_rich thanks sir! Looks good and I think they even have LCA relocation brackets as standard on that housing. I was able to configure with some nice upgrades, aluminum center-section and Eaten TrueTrac (not sure that's the way to go, but it was expensive and the total was still only $3400)
About the only things I'd be lacking to handle the power would be welding the SFC's in and maybe a torque arm upgrade.
Fuel tank first though... once I pull that trigger, game on.
About the only things I'd be lacking to handle the power would be welding the SFC's in and maybe a torque arm upgrade.
Fuel tank first though... once I pull that trigger, game on.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Car: '87 IROC-Z | '99 SS
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Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
While pressing POST I remembered seeing a 4th gen Firebird on craigslist. It appeared to be a V6 so I skipped over it before, but I just called him. Turns out it was Turbo LS swapped! He said the fuel pump sounds like a jet engine when it runs. I got him at $150 for the whole tank assembly. No idea what pump(s) might be in it. Might be some other fuel system goodies on there too I can get.
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Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
While pressing POST I remembered seeing a 4th gen Firebird on craigslist. It appeared to be a V6 so I skipped over it before, but I just called him. Turns out it was Turbo LS swapped! He said the fuel pump sounds like a jet engine when it runs. I got him at $150 for the whole tank assembly. No idea what pump(s) might be in it. Might be some other fuel system goodies on there too I can get.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Last edited by ZZ3Astro; Sep 23, 2015 at 11:51 AM.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Windsor Ontario
Car: 1987 Z28
Engine: 2005 5.3L, LS6 Cam
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Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Same way I ran mine on my old Iroc. Ill probably end up doing the same on this camaro also.
Jay
Jay
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Wise decision to cut for the fuel pump access. We all did it, and although I am sure every one of us cringed while we were making our cuts, it certainly pays huge dividends in the long run when you need to pull the intank assembly. I'm looking forward to your results Steve...
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
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Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
With a 4th gen plastic tank, you can drop it and change pumps in 30 min or less. Real easy unless tank is full
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
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Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Yeah 3rd gen tank is tighter. Plastic 99-02 is bigger and easily fit 2 in stock bucket
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Last edited by ZZ3Astro; Sep 23, 2015 at 11:51 AM.
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Looks great Steve, although I'm leaning towards another area as being the culprit, mainly because I too am now starting to see a little bit of a lean condition at 20+psi, and I'm running more than enough pump myself, although I am running a single intank pump. Curious to see how this does for you when those temps get up there again...
I use compression locks...
Originally Posted by ZZ3Astro
I've pretty much decided to go back with the traditional style, unless someone changes my mind here...
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
I used regular worm gear clamps on all my connections for my triple. Afaik no issues so far
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Honestly have no idea why you have these issues with the fuel system! So sorry to hear man that flat out sucks! Where are you ordering these pumps? Talk to LonnieP here for pumps. He's the man
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Panama City FL
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
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From: Windsor Ontario
Car: 1987 Z28
Engine: 2005 5.3L, LS6 Cam
Transmission: T56
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Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
Glad you got it all worked out. That will be PLENTY of pump. If you have issues I would be looking elsewhere lol.
Jay
Jay
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Re: ZZ3 Turbo Iroc - Round Three
It lives!
Here is how it all came together. I remembered seeing Aeromotive 340 pumps at Pep Boys. I figured they might have a 255 Walbro. They did in-fact have BBK 255's but the sock design was larger. I noticed the Aeromotives had two styles. One has a very large center inlet with an oversized Walbro style sock. I went home and fit my Aeromotive side inlet pump with the fixed sock in the same direction as the sender float. I mounted a Walbro with the sock cross-ways and was able to easily drop it in. I went back, dropped $180 for the 'same day delivery' 340 and mounted it up.
If I don't have fuel now with 2 x 340 LPH thru 2 x -6 lines into a -8 and back out to x 2 -6 into each rail, then I truly will give up! Second pump comes on around 8-10 psi.. not really sure exactly yet because 14 psi comes up instantly in this cool weather.
Test drive had AFR at 10.4 and I have visual confirmation that the second pump is coming on by using a red LED 1156 bulb laying in the back that is attached to the relay output for the on-boost pump.
Next up is a road trip Saturday about 75 miles to a car show. When I get there I will do a 17 psi blast and if it shows 10.4 still I will know I have progress. Then I will start tuning it on the way back. I want to explore the 22-24 psi range that I built this car to do. My calculations show an interesting increase in performance.
I'm figuring on my engine being ~375 NA (the lower this is, the higher the efficiency numbers below would be). With 18 psi I make 540 rwhp. That is about 630 at the crank or a 1.68 increase over NA. I also calculated the pressure drop at 5000 rpm, 18 psi inlet, through stock TPI runners and intake to be about 5 psi. Assuming a 13 psi boost at the cylinder, that is about 77% efficiency of power per psi. Increasing boost to 24 psi from 18 psi should make ~5 more psi in the cylinder. I calculated 25.5 hp per psi at 100% so at 77% it should increase right at 100 hp crank. All of my dyno numbers with this new setup have been essentially 'untuned' because I've never been able to tune it properly as the fuel pressure would go away more and more as I tuned. I think it has a bit more in it than 540 at 18 psi. We will see.
Here is how it all came together. I remembered seeing Aeromotive 340 pumps at Pep Boys. I figured they might have a 255 Walbro. They did in-fact have BBK 255's but the sock design was larger. I noticed the Aeromotives had two styles. One has a very large center inlet with an oversized Walbro style sock. I went home and fit my Aeromotive side inlet pump with the fixed sock in the same direction as the sender float. I mounted a Walbro with the sock cross-ways and was able to easily drop it in. I went back, dropped $180 for the 'same day delivery' 340 and mounted it up.
If I don't have fuel now with 2 x 340 LPH thru 2 x -6 lines into a -8 and back out to x 2 -6 into each rail, then I truly will give up! Second pump comes on around 8-10 psi.. not really sure exactly yet because 14 psi comes up instantly in this cool weather.
Test drive had AFR at 10.4 and I have visual confirmation that the second pump is coming on by using a red LED 1156 bulb laying in the back that is attached to the relay output for the on-boost pump.
Next up is a road trip Saturday about 75 miles to a car show. When I get there I will do a 17 psi blast and if it shows 10.4 still I will know I have progress. Then I will start tuning it on the way back. I want to explore the 22-24 psi range that I built this car to do. My calculations show an interesting increase in performance.
I'm figuring on my engine being ~375 NA (the lower this is, the higher the efficiency numbers below would be). With 18 psi I make 540 rwhp. That is about 630 at the crank or a 1.68 increase over NA. I also calculated the pressure drop at 5000 rpm, 18 psi inlet, through stock TPI runners and intake to be about 5 psi. Assuming a 13 psi boost at the cylinder, that is about 77% efficiency of power per psi. Increasing boost to 24 psi from 18 psi should make ~5 more psi in the cylinder. I calculated 25.5 hp per psi at 100% so at 77% it should increase right at 100 hp crank. All of my dyno numbers with this new setup have been essentially 'untuned' because I've never been able to tune it properly as the fuel pressure would go away more and more as I tuned. I think it has a bit more in it than 540 at 18 psi. We will see.
Awesome. Good luck.
There is a thread on here of a guys build that was running TPI also. He ditched the TPI and gained 150hp on his turboed setup by going with the different intake. Could of been 75, but i think it was 150. I think i saw you in that link. Knowing that much hp will be gained by swapping, how come you dont swap??
Cant wait to hear that the fuel issues are resolved.
