I have an '88 trans am GTA with the 350, and I am thinking of getting the Procharger that Hawks has for sale. Seems like a pretty easy kit, which is ideal for someone like me who is pretty new to the game.

I'm going to apologize in advance for my complete ignorance on a lot of factors in this, I am someone who has the desire to learn, but the seeming inability to retain information, so bear with me.

Anyway, I do have a few questions, first off, will I need larger fuel injectors? It just has stock injectors right now. Also, if so. will I be able simply plug and play and the ECU can adapt to the change? Or will tuning have to be a factor (of which I have absolutely NO experience)

I should take the time to mention, beyond stock I simply have a set of Hooker shortie headers, custom Flowmaster exhaust, a larger Holley throttle body, and a super coil, and that's about it.

Again I apologize for my ignorance on the matter, my ultimate goal is 400 HP at the rear wheels, is this attainable with my few mods and a supercharger? Or will I have to go to greater lengths beyond that?

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/88-92-tpi-camaro-firebird-procharger-kit-select-application-to-adjust-price/

I should mention, I THINK I am going to buy the highest lever of the supercharger/intercooler available. Among five grand, what's a couple hundred anyway. Only the best for my baby!

 

i just bought a 86 iroc with a procharger. iam lost allso but check around there are companys that offer the same procharger kit for alot less money.

 

Installing the 3 core intercooler kit right now. The directions suck. Their current center mount bracket is designed wrong after they "improved" it so be prepared to modify/make your own one. Also the tubes barely make it up through the inner fenders. You really have to cut them to make it route correctly. I'm also making a new fender brace for the driver's side because the "s" tube just won't make the turn.......overall I give it a 7 rating

 

I forget where I bought mine from but I remember seeing them cheaper elsewhere. Yes you should upgrade to larger injectors and dont expect it to run well on your stock tune. I have mine all installed just waiting on the tuning part now.

 

I did the install 20yrs ago and the directions sucked then. Sounds like the suggestions and photos I took time sending them for an improvement in the instructions fell on deaf ears. Oh well, I tried...

I vividly remember the bracket you're talking about. Also, the tubing.

Overall a nice product. The effort to install was worth it the first time I punched the loud pedal!

 

With a basically stock motor, throwing a $5,500 DISC blower on it doesn't make sense to me if all you want is 400rwhp.

You will need tranny work if you are on the stock trans, it will give up the ghost with the blower on the car. Plus injectors, fuel pump, etc.

Take that $5,500 for the blower budget and double it for getting the rest of the car ready for the blower.

 

I don't know that I agree with that.

I guess the first issue I have is spending $5,500 on a procharger in the first place.

I had a P1SC for a little while. I forgot what I paid for it, but it was cheap. I think I resold it for $1500 or less on the forum. The head unit isn't bad, but the brackets and overall design sucks.


The stock trans won't instantly explode. I ran some of my fastest ET's ever on stock T5's. Even a stock 700R4 should last a while.

-- Joe

 

2200$ Or so will get you heads cam intake and near 400 whp

But ablower kit is relatively simple. But i would have ebl p4 intalled to run 2 bar map based fuel and not do an fmu

Will need 36-42 lb inj or so

Will need hotwire kit 255 fuel pump

 

A new Procharger kit comes with an FMU (Fuel Management Unit)... It's basically a device that bumps up the pressure of the fuel, thus sending more fuel to mix with the more air the supercharger is producing. Works ok...

Better way, get correct injectors, and an ECM (EBL) that can monitor boost and more precisely meter the correct fuel... It would also do wideband o2.

It is a lot of $$$.... As Orr89RocZ said, cheaper to upgrade teh naturally aspirated motor and get close to that. Other option is Turbo, which would give you more power, but must be fabbed, or BBS, and all the tuning mentioned above that goes with that. No kits, you can buy a header, but you have to fab pretty much everything else.

I had a D1SC Procharger kit I was holding onto, sold it... then I bought a BBS header kit capable of more power, and sold it... just bought some nice Trick Flow Heads and stroker kit....

 

That's one thing I forgot to mention. I DID recently (about a year and a half ago) have the 700R4 completely rebuilt AND reinforced. The guy we took it to builds trannies for racing vehicles and said we could throw just about anything at it and would not have any issues.

Also I should mention, down the road I DO want to completely rebuild/upgrade/beef the hell out of the engine, but I simply don't have the money or experience to do either (right now) and of course not both a huge overhaul AND a supercharger. So for convenience sake, I decided upon the Supercharger first so I can take the extra couple years it will take to save up to learn more and more about what I will have to do and how to do it properly, but in the meantime, I can still reach my first goal of 400rwhp.

 

First of all, thanks for the response, those are the kind of exact numbers I am looking for. Second of all, excuse my ignorance, but a difference between 36 and 42 lb injectors sounds rather significant to me, is that a big range? Also what differences would become of the 36 vs the 42? Better (haha very funny) milage at 36 and better power output at 42?

Thanks again for the reply!

 

running larger injectors will allow room to grow with more boost. also running larger injectors at lower duty cycles will improve life, as opposed to running small injectors at their limits.

my suggestion is to build a motor that you can throw anything at rather than throw a blower on because it is "bolt on". i can see you purchasing that kit and then doing nothing with it because you dont have experience, tools, time or space to do it etc. whatever the case may be i think you would be much happier with a built motor and it would bring you to your ultimate goal much quicker, cheaper and with less headaches.

in the end if the blower is what you want, i guess go for it.

 

How do you figure? An injector is a solenoid. It doesn't give a rats behind how long it's energized for.

-- Joe

 

36lb injector is what I ran on the S-trim, and that made 565 (flywheel) horsepower.

I'm running 60s on my T76 but they are probably overkill.

-- Joe

 

you are right it doesnt care until it overheats and says enough of this. what happens when starter solenoids are overheated? things stop working.

is running an injector at 100% duty cycle going to blow it up immediately no... eventually yes. no tuner/builder will ever build a motor with an injector that is going to constantly be maxed out.

 

Apples to oranges, and not even close. "Duty cycle" is the relationship in TIME that the injector is open vs engine speed. This will depend on the firing strategy used.


No. it won't. If anything, RPM is what will wear the injector out.


-- Joe

 

Sorry for hijacking, but my question seems to fit in here.

I have this idea about a cheap procharger build, with a modest 8-10 psi boost. Bigger injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a broadband lambda for tuning(tuning simply by adjusting fuel pressure).

I'm a total rookie, so please tell me why this wouldn't work

 

Adjustable regulators are typically 1:1 ratio. Wouldn't provide fuel under boost.

You need a FMU or adjustable regulator that will increase like 7psi per psi of boost or something along those lines. FMU's are great for low boost applications.

The problem is, you'll run out of fuel pressure really quick. For example.

Baseline pressure of 45psi
8 lbs of boost.
8 x 7 = 56
56 + 45 = 101psi

That's too high. Even if the injectors could deal with such a high pressure, you won't find a fuel pump to provide volume at that pressure.

Best bet is to run a fuel management system (ECU, ECM, etc) that provides the proper pulse width to keep the AFR in check.

-- Joe

 

Well, hence the bigger injectors. I figured that with injectors 1.6 times the original injectors lbs/hr, and 1.6 times the original air amount, I wouldn't have to mess around with fuel pressure(save for fine adjustment), as long as the fuel pump can deliver.

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

 

You are misunderstanding.

You need to provide the correct amount of fuel at idle, part throttle, and under boost. The only way to do that properly is by modulating the injector pulse width.

If you managed to size the injectors large enough to provide enough enrichment at full boost, you would be way too rich at part throttle and idle.

-- Joe

 

Oh, ok
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it!