Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
09-23-2019, 03:21 PM
#1
Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
I want to keep the engine block with the car for now... I have an LQ4 I have not started on yet. I am looking for close to 300 hp/tq to the wheels with the 305 N/A and be street driven daily. Alright so I got the block at the machine shop. I have both the Vortec and 14014416 HO heads ... Would it be better to grab a set stock 350 heads and shorten the valves or port the heads I have? Also I want to use the factory roller lifters because they fit the rockers I already have! I am using the TBI system I already have because I want to learn the fuel programing with an Ostrich 2 using the OBD1. Seeing as I can get a OBD2 computer for cheap. Learning the first generation system sounds fun to me. No 350 block, 305 is cheaper. I am building this as cheep as possible. The machine shop is already working the block. Also focused on Airflow and safe RPMs, not fuel or spark I got that handled! So I have a list of questions! Engine first the rest to follow!
Things I have already. (Eagle forged crank stroke 3.48 1 piece main seal) (3.766 in. Bore+.030 in. hypereutectic cast-pistons....no connecting rods yet) (All new accessories, AC to Power Steering) (A complete and tune able 305 TBI system which I can upgrade with injectors and pump!)
1. Will boring it .030 over add any performance?
2. (I know nothing about cams) Does anyone know the the actual cam clearance before the valves touch pistons or walls?
3. I can pick up a pair of aluminum 350 heads for cheap and shorten the valves would this be practical for 305?
4. I want to keep the EGR/Smog pump are there aftermarket headers for this?
5. Does anyone know of an intake manifold that flows better? Would a standard 350 one be a direct upgrade I can adapt the TBI if needed!
6. Anyone know the cheapest connecting rods that are stronger than stock? They will have to be measure with the pistons!
Things I have already. (Eagle forged crank stroke 3.48 1 piece main seal) (3.766 in. Bore+.030 in. hypereutectic cast-pistons....no connecting rods yet) (All new accessories, AC to Power Steering) (A complete and tune able 305 TBI system which I can upgrade with injectors and pump!)
1. Will boring it .030 over add any performance?
2. (I know nothing about cams) Does anyone know the the actual cam clearance before the valves touch pistons or walls?
3. I can pick up a pair of aluminum 350 heads for cheap and shorten the valves would this be practical for 305?
4. I want to keep the EGR/Smog pump are there aftermarket headers for this?
5. Does anyone know of an intake manifold that flows better? Would a standard 350 one be a direct upgrade I can adapt the TBI if needed!
6. Anyone know the cheapest connecting rods that are stronger than stock? They will have to be measure with the pistons!
Last edited by RicerEater; 09-24-2019 at 02:34 PM.
09-23-2019, 09:58 PM
#2
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Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
Shorten the valves ??? 
09-24-2019, 12:43 AM
#4
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Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
I can tell you still have a lot to figure out, but I can give you a little help.
Valve head diameter has nothing to do with valve length.
Heads for a 305 typically have smaller (diameter head) valves than 350s. If you put 350 heads on a 305, you might benefit from the larger valves, but your compression will be lowered.
The 305 heads combustion chambers are usually smaller than 350s also. Some people put 305 heads on a 350 to gain compression, but then larger valves need to be installed.
If this is a budget build, then just use the 4416 heads and use the KISS method - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Combining parts like you are trying to do will get expensive. Save your money for the LQ4.
From the parts you listed, I think that because you want to keep TBI, then use the Vortec heads (as long as they don't lower the compression too much) and a Vortec TBI intake manifold.
But IMO, you already have spent too much money on a 305.
Valve head diameter has nothing to do with valve length.
Heads for a 305 typically have smaller (diameter head) valves than 350s. If you put 350 heads on a 305, you might benefit from the larger valves, but your compression will be lowered.
The 305 heads combustion chambers are usually smaller than 350s also. Some people put 305 heads on a 350 to gain compression, but then larger valves need to be installed.
If this is a budget build, then just use the 4416 heads and use the KISS method - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Combining parts like you are trying to do will get expensive. Save your money for the LQ4.
From the parts you listed, I think that because you want to keep TBI, then use the Vortec heads (as long as they don't lower the compression too much) and a Vortec TBI intake manifold.
But IMO, you already have spent too much money on a 305.
09-24-2019, 09:35 AM
#5
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
I am not trying to waste money making performance, I am raising the performance to match a STOCK 350 around 250 -300 hp
Combining the parts is free, machining them is not! Dealing with a cam on a 305 is not easy. The stock cam is gone worn to nothings and there are literally five million other choices out there from grinds A to Z and stage 1 to stage 3! What I am getting at is I can have done any valve work or use 3 heads what everyone keeps telling me is to make a drag car for light to light that runs out of breath at 3000 rpms and falls flat, which is stupid to me! I am looking for 300 hp no more no less. Then plan is to sell or drop the 305 in a roller and sell it when I get the LQ4 built. I still don't even know where to start looking for camshaft grinds and I don't like asking about a product if I have no intention on buying it yet they will try to sell it to me while I am comparing other products!
So the verdict is get connecting rods a tiny bit longer to raise compression with 350 heads or shorter push rods? Then grab the biggest roller cam possible with new springs and tune the heck out of it!?
Combining the parts is free, machining them is not! Dealing with a cam on a 305 is not easy. The stock cam is gone worn to nothings and there are literally five million other choices out there from grinds A to Z and stage 1 to stage 3! What I am getting at is I can have done any valve work or use 3 heads what everyone keeps telling me is to make a drag car for light to light that runs out of breath at 3000 rpms and falls flat, which is stupid to me! I am looking for 300 hp no more no less. Then plan is to sell or drop the 305 in a roller and sell it when I get the LQ4 built. I still don't even know where to start looking for camshaft grinds and I don't like asking about a product if I have no intention on buying it yet they will try to sell it to me while I am comparing other products!
So the verdict is get connecting rods a tiny bit longer to raise compression with 350 heads or shorter push rods? Then grab the biggest roller cam possible with new springs and tune the heck out of it!?
Last edited by RicerEater; 09-24-2019 at 11:25 AM.
09-24-2019, 02:02 PM
#6
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Car: 86' IROC
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Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
1. Will boring it .30 over add any performance?
2. (I know nothing about cams) Does anyone know the the actual cam clearance before the valves touch pistons or walls?
3. I can pick up a pair of aluminum 350 heads for cheap and shorten the valves would this be practical for 305?
4. I want to keep the EGR/Smog pump are there aftermarket headers for this?
5. Does anyone know of an intake manifold that flows better? Would a standard 350 one be a direct upgrade I can adapt the TBI if needed!
6. Anyone know the cheapest connecting rods that are stronger than stock? They will have to be measure with the pistons!
2. (I know nothing about cams) Does anyone know the the actual cam clearance before the valves touch pistons or walls?
3. I can pick up a pair of aluminum 350 heads for cheap and shorten the valves would this be practical for 305?
4. I want to keep the EGR/Smog pump are there aftermarket headers for this?
5. Does anyone know of an intake manifold that flows better? Would a standard 350 one be a direct upgrade I can adapt the TBI if needed!
6. Anyone know the cheapest connecting rods that are stronger than stock? They will have to be measure with the pistons!
2) inorder to know you will need to measure your pushrods, and check P2V clearance. There is no "what should" or definite awnser - the combinations are endless.
3) Shortened valves have negligible gains in this situation.
4) yes, i had a set of Edelbrock TES headers years ago.
5) Not sure on this, but i wouldnt see why you couldnt run a good dual plane and have similar results to a carb
6) I would run stock connecting rods if your goal is only 300hp. Im running gm "pink" rods rated for 500 and i'm over that without issues. *knocks on wood*
You would probably have a really hard time finding a set thats a little bit longer. You would be better off going with a different piston. a huge roller cam may effect your vacuum accessories and be a pain to drive. keep that in mind
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RicerEater (09-24-2019)
09-24-2019, 02:54 PM
#7
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
Edlebrock TES headers, Performer TBI intake, 14014416 heads with bigger valves and new springs remove press fit for screw ins or (Keep the press in's) stock push rods and rockers! 4340 steel 5.7in H beam connecting rods (A little better than iron I hope, also less weight), .030 bored over pistons hyper-eutectic cast flat top (I want the new pistons to meet new surface! not sure if it adds any power) Eagle forged crank stroke 3.48 1 piece main seal(Most of the reason I am building this engine... Hopefully 300,000 miles before another rebuild), Melling twin timing chain set... All the bearings and covers and bolts I already have! And As for the cam.. I haven't an idea where to start! I am junkyarding, craigslisting and e-baying my way to pay!
Last edited by RicerEater; 09-24-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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09-24-2019, 03:08 PM
#8
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
Is stock crank in good shape? Machine and reuse do not waste money on forged crank
if you need new rods get scat i beams for cheap you do not need forged h beams
if you have a good set of vortec heads and can get a vortec manifold with tbi adapter or a specific tbi vortec style intake, do that.
ls7 style lifters if oem hyd roller style block with dog bone retainers
cam do something like a comp 212/218. Comp 264 aka 08-412-8. With tbi and being maybe new to tuning probably dont wanna go more than that
on the cheap find posts by fast355 and the gm marine cam. Its like a crane powermax clone 214/220 duration for way cheap.
if you need new rods get scat i beams for cheap you do not need forged h beams
if you have a good set of vortec heads and can get a vortec manifold with tbi adapter or a specific tbi vortec style intake, do that.
ls7 style lifters if oem hyd roller style block with dog bone retainers
cam do something like a comp 212/218. Comp 264 aka 08-412-8. With tbi and being maybe new to tuning probably dont wanna go more than that
on the cheap find posts by fast355 and the gm marine cam. Its like a crane powermax clone 214/220 duration for way cheap.
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RicerEater (09-24-2019)
09-24-2019, 03:33 PM
#9
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
Is stock crank in good shape? Machine and reuse do not waste money on forged crank
if you need new rods get scat i beams for cheap you do not need forged h beams
if you have a good set of vortec heads and can get a vortec manifold with tbi adapter or a specific tbi vortec style intake, do that.
ls7 style lifters if oem hyd roller style block with dog bone retainers
cam do something like a comp 212/218. Comp 264 aka 08-412-8. With tbi and being maybe new to tuning probably dont wanna go more than that
on the cheap find posts by fast355 and the gm marine cam. Its like a crane powermax clone 214/220 duration for way cheap.
if you need new rods get scat i beams for cheap you do not need forged h beams
if you have a good set of vortec heads and can get a vortec manifold with tbi adapter or a specific tbi vortec style intake, do that.
ls7 style lifters if oem hyd roller style block with dog bone retainers
cam do something like a comp 212/218. Comp 264 aka 08-412-8. With tbi and being maybe new to tuning probably dont wanna go more than that
on the cheap find posts by fast355 and the gm marine cam. Its like a crane powermax clone 214/220 duration for way cheap.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/n...SABEgIDAPD_BwE
So this is the range I need?
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RicerEater (09-25-2019)
09-24-2019, 06:21 PM
#13
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
So basically what I am looking at if I can find a used/new cam in a 220 range and an intake manifold I should be good!
Using the newer lighter rods and crank shaft that are not "FORGED" help spin the thing faster when you need power, currently running 2.77 rear posi I am making it more endurance, durable than I am driving it mostly... On the highway I want it to be more monstrous rather than wait 5-10 minutes to get from 70 to 85 If that makes sense?
https://www.competitionproducts.com/...nfo/180305-08/ So something like this? Any idea how I could figure out the HP/Tq estimates on that one?
Last edited by RicerEater; 09-24-2019 at 08:13 PM.
09-24-2019, 10:05 PM
#14
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
my opinion- run everything stock in the shortblock, no forged anything. also anything you consider that would need machine work will blow any kind of sensible budget. i would run a bone stock shortblock.
you would probably gain more than any of the mentioned engine mods by changing out that 2.77 gear for a 3.73 or 4.10.
you would probably gain more than any of the mentioned engine mods by changing out that 2.77 gear for a 3.73 or 4.10.
09-25-2019, 11:57 AM
#15
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
my opinion- run everything stock in the short block, no forged anything. also anything you consider that would need machine work will blow any kind of sensible budget. i would run a bone stock short block.
you would probably gain more than any of the mentioned engine mods by changing out that 2.77 gear for a 3.73 or 4.10.
you would probably gain more than any of the mentioned engine mods by changing out that 2.77 gear for a 3.73 or 4.10.
Well I already know how I want the car to perform! And I do not want drag racing gears I had 4.11 in it the car when I first got it and went completely the other direction! And I do not have any forged internals other than the crank I bought 3 years ago and pistons which are cheap cast one that have been heat treated! The connecting rods need to be lighter seeing as I am putting on a WAY lighter flex plate and harmonic balance. Spinning fast and flawless is the goal here. If the Stock crank is 2 lbs lighter I may just sell the eagle crank! Work in progress!
Things I do need I don't already have stock, on my list of importance
Block machine work
Performer Intake manifold
And a cam! <--- I cannot find a cam comparison or flow chart for a 305 or understand any of it!
Last will be the head work and I will be having screw in guides with a port polish and other ****... The head machine work is the most expensive thing I am sitting on right now!
And one thing I do know, work gets things done when you work! Here is a starting point for you! I am working on it! And I appreciate everyone input. This car is stressful for sure!
A starting point
Also I have come to learn the car has only been running on 7 cylinders since I had the car... I just lost another a few weeks ago, I can only imagine what an engine rebuild will do. Also since I got the smog pump out I am 50/50 on the egr delete right now!
Last edited by RicerEater; 09-25-2019 at 12:09 PM.
09-25-2019, 12:46 PM
#22
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Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
Whoever is telling you to shorten valves, sink money in those heads a big cam is an idiot.
Start over....first whats your machinist say?
Start over....first whats your machinist say?
09-25-2019, 12:50 PM
#23
Re: Project, cam advice 305 block at Machine shop
If you need help with an engine build the page you’re looking for is Tech/General Engine, it’s a couple of lines above Power Adders
Its a page dedicated to N/A builds and getting engines running right....
Lots of great info there!!!
Good luck bud ��
Its a page dedicated to N/A builds and getting engines running right....
Lots of great info there!!!
Good luck bud ��
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