I have read a lot of your posts and consider what you say as valuable information. I am getting further along into putting some new toys on my IROC (it has a ZZ4 w/stock tpi on it). The sure thing is that I am going to be putting on an ATI P600B on it. I also currently have a fully ported SuperRam w/extrude honed runners. So all together, base, runners and plenum. What I am not sure about is if it is worth keeping the SuperRam or leaving on the stock tpi since it is going to be supercharged anyway, or even move to a fully ported plenum, ported edelbrock hi flow runners and ported edelbrock base. I have been offered these items and $500 in exchange for the SuperRam I have. Out of these three options, what type of outcomes could I expect w/the Supercharger on them and what do you suggest I go for? Thanks so much for your help!

 

Well, i'm not the almighty guido but i do know a lot about blown/boosted applications and have done/worked on my fair share and the almighty guido would agree with me

not to mention i took off 2 seconds off my ET and added about 18mph to my 1/4 with little tuning and 12psi on pump gas

(^^^had to get that in there as a reference...hehehe)

---oh, dont mind me. i'm just in really good mood lately


NOW FOR YOUR QUESTION:

Superram vs TPI is kinda the same in a boosted application. Either one will provide you the torque/hp you want with minimal modifications but there is a diference and you really wont notice the difference and i'm going to explain why:

with a long runner setup, the compressed air is just going to force itself down the intake anyway, so if it is "a little" restrictive to begine with (ie TPI) you can make up for that restriction with a few more lbs of boost which is just a pulley change

OR

you can go a pricier way and upgrade to the superram and get what you want at a few lower psi but is it really worth all that trouble? personally, no

the only real gains/differences you are going to see is if you move the whole RPM band of the motor meaning a 5500rpm-5800rpm at most to a short runner type (miniram or converted carb) and move the RPM band up to the 6200rpm-6500rpm

---Now what i would do in your situation is this:

The only thing i'd do is port your stock plenum and do the ported base. Why i say no runners is because you really dont have to worry about the air getting in the runners, it is more how fast it is going to go through the base and into the heads. You dont want the choke there, you'd rather have the choke in the runners....but it is very minimal

Case in point....a few examples for you:

-local friend with a 383 with completely STOCK TPI intake stuff went 10.80s on boost and 9.60s on two stages of nitrous

-another local friend with a 355 and just some upgraded Accel runners and a D-1 goes low 11s on boost and low 10s on a 75 shot

-another friend with a 355 and some upgraded base/runners/plenum with an S-trim and lots of tuning went 10.90s

-dont forget preston either.....305 with an s-trim and ported plenum, ported base and some AFR 190 heads went 10.70s

In a boosted application the TPI intake stuff makes a great street/strip curve. The dyno curve is nice and flat and the torque curve is very broad all across the board.

hope i answered a lot of your questions, but like i say......

<----is not the almighty Guido

 

I dont think that i could say it any better.

Why P600B? You getting it used? They call it the P1SC now.

 

Guido's right, the P1SC is much better than the 600b, making the latter obsolete. The former is self contained (no need to tap the oil pan), quieter, and can handle more boost. Not to mention, I believe it flows more cfm's of air....

Jon

 

hehe yes, I got it used. PROCHARGEDROC, I think you did a fine job of explaining it. I am still getting so many friggin conflicting messages ... ie Accel says that even with the procharger, I will get more out of it w/the SuperRam than any long tube setup. As I said, if I swap my Super Ram base/plenum/runners for ported stock plenum/port matched edelbrock hi flow runners/portmatched edelbrock hi flow base I will get $500 as well. Will this in specific be a good idea for me? THEN...what do I do w/the $500? If I am reading you guys correctly, I think you said this is the BEST way to go for me, as I may not have much better 1/4 times w/the SR over the setup I may trade for....and I'd get the money over it anyway! Am I correct in saying you agree with this? Thanks again so much for clearing up this newbie's head!

 

oh yes, and I forgot one other thing. Since my ZZ4 is 10:1 cr and hyper pistons, I was told on 3 occassions from ATI that, provided w/good tuning, 12 psi would be fine, but I shouldn't go over that. I am even really thinking 9 psi but I'm not sure. Anyway, The reason I wouldn't go higher boost to compensate for the stock tpi instead of the SR is because of fear of blowing my motor. I don't want to go through my motor and make everything forged or whatever. I would much rather use what I have or use what I can get from what I have, ya know? So, since I already have the SR and the above in mind, what do you think would be the best option now?

 

hehe yes, I got it used. PROCHARGEDROC, I think you did a fine job of explaining it. I am still getting so many friggin conflicting messages ... ie Accel says that even with the procharger, I will get more out of it w/the SuperRam than any long tube setup.

they are also salesmen trying to sell you their product...so why would they say you wouldn't gain from it?

As I said, if I swap my Super Ram base/plenum/runners for ported stock plenum/port matched edelbrock hi flow runners/portmatched edelbrock hi flow base I will get $500 as well. Will this in specific be a good idea for me?

could be, you'd have to price out what you've paid for everything you have compared to what your getting


THEN...what do I do w/the $500?

buy some ET Streets at the very least

If I am reading you guys correctly, I think you said this is the BEST way to go for me, as I may not have much better 1/4 times w/the SR over the setup I may trade for....and I'd get the money over it anyway! Am I correct in saying you agree with this? Thanks again so much for clearing up this newbie's head!

yup, i'd go with the TPI setup

 

lol et streets = rear end go bye bye

 

If i may say a few things, take it VERY slow, and have some way of monitoring your engine.
This advise was givin to me along time ago by Guido, 89ProchargedROC, 89ProchargedZ, and Willie.

<B>Thank you guys</B>

And my car still runs great, i can't wait until spring to drive it again! With alot more tuning and some tires i'm shooting for high 12's

later
larry

 

oh yes, and I forgot one other thing. Since my ZZ4 is 10:1 cr and hyper pistons, I was told on 3 occassions from ATI that, provided w/good tuning, 12 psi would be fine, but I shouldn't go over that.

well yes and no. Yes it *could* work IF you had some type of programmable engine computer to lower the timing significantly. Thats too much compression for 12psi with full stock timing maps in the TPI computers

i mean i ran 12psi on stock pistons at 9.3:1 and one little mishap i had and i went BOOM. Thats almost 1 FULL POINT LOWER. I dont understand why they'd tell you that, i mean they dont sell the LT1 guys anything over 8psi i believe and they are 10.5:1 and they thing that .5 will allow you 4 more psi?

PAAALLEEASSEE

these guys aren't too smart either

Another problem is that the hypeuetectic pistons dont act too well with boost BUT if you keep it tuned nice all the time, it should last for a while.

MAX boost i would think would in the 8-9psi range and thats pushing it too.....you're going to have to lower your base timing to about 2-4* and hope it doesn't ping. Best advice i can tell you, and get the 3 core intercooler


I am even really thinking 9 psi but I'm not sure. Anyway, The reason I wouldn't go higher boost to compensate for the stock tpi instead of the SR is because of fear of blowing my motor. I don't want to go through my motor and make everything forged or whatever. I would much rather use what I have or use what I can get from what I have, ya know? So, since I already have the SR and the above in mind, what do you think would be the best option now?

keep the TPI stuff, go with the 9psi and BE CAREFUL. Lower your timing and make sure you have plenty of fuel. i'd also run 2 stage colder plugs too, maybe even 3. You *might* end up needed a chip burned with some backed down timing maps, but not necessarily....go with the 9psi

It is going to make so much torque you arent going to know what to do with it

 

Thanks for your help ... I think I'll be going with the edel stuff and 9psi, ditching the stock tpi and SuperRam. I am excited to see what it can do at the track. I also already have a 3 core intercooler ... sorry I forgot to mention that!

 

one more thing that *could* save your motor is dont rev it past 5000rpm

ATI rates it pullies at 5500rpm

i only ran mine to 5000rpm and saw 10psi with the smaller pulley to make some more airflow and never saw a true 12 and still picked up major hp

you might want to do that to maybe keep boost down to 6-7psi

 

For the record, unless you are spraying the belt with some type of compound to soften it up and make it grip better, you will never exceed the max rpms with a serpentine belt.

Stay TPI.
No more than 9psi.

Keep it FAT (read: rich A/F)

3 core intercooler and let the good times flow.

 

Sorry have to LAUGH at the one comment given below..."I got this advice from Guido. ect ect...Long ago...Take your time"

Guido and taking time do not belong in the same sentence...He usually has a part on for about 2 weeks before he is talking about selling it and switching to something else...LOL

Kenwood
ICON Motorsports
1987GTA with Guido's "taking his time" Vortech SuperchaRGER..lol

 

OOPS I meant the post above by maniacc...

 

Thanks so much again for your help guys! This brings me to probably my last few questions.

Does it make sense to put on the ported edelbrock intake pieces and use the $500 on say strengthening the rear end, or does it make better sense to keep the STOCK tpi I have on it now and sell the whole SR for 1000-1100 and do stuff like strengthen the rear end, buy roll cage, other suspension stuff like relocation brackets, lca's etc. ? I feel confident enough in you guys that once I hear from you then I will go that route. Thanks!

 

It is up to you really

your main concern is going to be if you have a fresh tranny.

if you dont...i'd sell the superram stuff and use the $$ to get a new tranny

OR

take the edelbrock stuff and $500 cash and put the $500 into a new tranny and decent converter

how much fun is it going to be to have that awesome motor and no tranny to drive it around?

 

actually, I just had the tranny built and the builder said it would hold up to the power w/a supercharger. So, with that said, stock tpi or edel tpi?

 

a 9 bolt will last.....just dont launch too hard

 

I actually only have a 10 bolt. I think that should go quick if I put slicks on it. Assuming I build that right and the tranny is built right...stock tpi or edel tpi?