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READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by PurelyPMD
You are right - very odd.
55 Z28's in the same configuration.
I suppose the 5.0TPI Manual R6P firebirds could be had with T-tops for the 91-92 model year where as the equivalent G92 Camaro's were somewhat more restrictive with getting T-tops I understand
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
So this may be a dumb question but where should I look to decode all of my rpo codes? I have a g92 91 camaro. I know it has dual cats and 3.42 gears it doesn't have rear discs. Any info on where I can find what all my rpo codes are would be great!
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by GTA1990
thanks. Interesting; about ten times more than the equivalent camaro
I am not sure, I cannot look it up, the 5 Speed Trans Am's with T-tops did they all come with the 3.42 or did some come with the 3.08. The Camaro was NA with the 3.42 gear and T-tops IIRC from 1990-1992.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by G92-Z28
So this may be a dumb question but where should I look to decode all of my rpo codes? I have a g92 91 camaro. I know it has dual cats and 3.42 gears it doesn't have rear discs. Any info on where I can find what all my rpo codes are would be great!
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
See below
Originally Posted by G92-Z28
So this may be a dumb question but where should I look to decode all of my rpo codes? I have a g92 91 camaro. I know it has dual cats and 3.42 gears it doesn't have rear discs. Any info on where I can find what all my rpo codes are would be great!
Just google the search term GM rpo decoder and you'll see lots of printed lists of what each of your rpo's mean buildwise.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
I am not sure, I cannot look it up, the 5 Speed Trans Am's with T-tops did they all come with the 3.42 or did some come with the 3.08. The Camaro was NA with the 3.42 gear and T-tops IIRC from 1990-1992.
thanks. Does make one think about why GM would hold back on the Camaro but not the Firebird (wrt the rear end and t-tops combination). I get the sense that GM restricted drivetrain/ t-top combinations solely because of EPA and car weight; and like-for-like, the firebird was heavier I understand.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Im not really concerned about rarity justwould like to know about a iroc with camaro emblems instead of iroc on rockers also the rear says camaro not tuned port injection i plan on selling the car just wanted to verify Heres a VIN pic
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by lugnut
Im not really concerned about rarity justwould like to know about a iroc with camaro emblems instead of iroc on rockers also the rear says camaro not tuned port injection i plan on selling the car just wanted to verify Heres a VIN pic
Looks like you have a 1990 IROC which was the lowest production year with the 350 engine, N10 duel exhaust, G92 performance gears, and many other nice options according to your RPO list. I would say that at some time somebody replaced the IROC emblems with the Camaro ones. It is an IROC.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by lugnut
Im not really concerned about rarity justwould like to know about a iroc with camaro emblems instead of iroc on rockers also the rear says camaro not tuned port injection i plan on selling the car just wanted to verify Heres a VIN pic
Please start a new thread... this is just cluttering up this one. Not sure how this pertains to the original post, apparently forgot to read it.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
ok, i have a 1986, Trans Am, WS6, 305 4bbl, 5sp. i'm thinking that this was an unusual combination. how do i find out how many were made in this configuration?
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
48,870 Trans Am's built in 1986 - other than the L69 which are like hens teeth, that would be the top motor available with a 5spd. I doubt it's rare - likely in the high 4 digit, low 5 digit range.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by dragsta
ok, i have a 1986, Trans Am, WS6, 305 4bbl, 5sp. i'm thinking that this was an unusual combination. how do i find out how many were made in this configuration?
Although I do not recall ever seeing another, There is no way to tell how many were made. Unlike the later years where we can figure out how many 5 speeds were made with TPI based upon the RPO codes 1986 poses a problem doing so. The good thing is the V6 uses a slightly different manual trans than the V8, the gearing ratios I think are different, for later years the Manual trans for the V6 is MD8 the V8 TBI or TPI is M39 and the TPI W/G92 was MK6. Unfortunately GM purged the data for 82-89 F-bodies so without that getting those specific numbers is virtually impossible at this point
I can tell you that there were 16,640 Manual Transmissions in Firebirds in 1986, no further breakdown is available. This would have been between the V6 and the LG4 V8, and could have been installed in a Base Firebird, S/E or Trans Am.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Hello John and Forum Followers,
I read all 12 pages, and my brain is threatening to shutdown from info overload. Yet, I didn't come across what I was hoping to find. So, I hope that allows me to ask the following......
I'm on an info search to gather the number of LB9-powered cars built 1985-92. It appeals to me this engine is an under-rated hero.....TPI (all years), aluminum heads (most years), roller lifters (most years), and only available in higher end F-Bodies......and the top rated Gen III F-Body engine available with a m/t. I suspect build data will show it to be in the top three of the best selling specs ever of performance Gen I Chevy small blocks.
The nastyz28 website seems to give all the Camaro LB9 build numbers year-by-year, can anyone assure me those are reliable stats? I haven't found a GEN III Firebird friendly site yet for build numbers. I've talked to my librarian about borrowing a Camaro White Book by interlibrary loan, but there are no such copies in the Canadian system.
Any help on LB9-powered car build numbers would be greatly appreciated.
From: *member since 1999, I think - just can't remember my old name, and the big site crash...*
Car: 89 GTA ASC Conv., Prev: 89 GTA 6.3L
Engine: 5.7L L98 TPI
Transmission: 700r4 Automatic
Axle/Gears: 3.27:1 w/ JG1 Options:B2L, N10, U1A
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by mcsilver
Hello John and Forum Followers,
I read all 12 pages, and my brain is threatening to shutdown from info overload. Yet, I didn't come across what I was hoping to find. So, I hope that allows me to ask the following......
I'm on an info search to gather the number of LB9-powered cars built 1985-92. It appeals to me this engine is an under-rated hero.....TPI (all years), aluminum heads (most years), roller lifters (most years), and only available in higher end F-Bodies......and the top rated Gen III F-Body engine available with a m/t. I suspect build data will show it to be in the top three of the best selling specs ever of performance Gen I Chevy small blocks.
The nastyz28 website seems to give all the Camaro LB9 build numbers year-by-year, can anyone assure me those are reliable stats? I haven't found a GEN III Firebird friendly site yet for build numbers. I've talked to my librarian about borrowing a Camaro White Book by interlibrary loan, but there are no such copies in the Canadian system.
Any help on LB9-powered car build numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Tx, Kellen
Welcome to the site.
LB9 was Iron head 305. None w/ factory alumn. heads. Same w/ all other TPI 5.0 and 5.7L cars.
Only "RPO" V8 to get alumni heads was done by 2nd stage builder, SLP on the 91/92 Firehawk under RPO B4U.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Thanks for reply Big & Bad GTA. It sent me off reading as to how I thought F-bodies had aluminum heads in some years. Results, Aluminum Corvette heads in most years L98, but not in F-Bodies. LB9 something of a smaller L98, but a Camaro L98, not a Corvette L98. Point taken.
My quest is still to put together LB9-powered build total, as in the original post. Anyone have data or internet leads to same?
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by mcsilver
Hello John and Forum Followers,
I read all 12 pages, and my brain is threatening to shutdown from info overload. Yet, I didn't come across what I was hoping to find. So, I hope that allows me to ask the following......
You're Welcome. I like making people's head explode.
Originally Posted by mcsilver
I'm on an info search to gather the number of LB9-powered cars built 1985-92. It appeals to me this engine is an under-rated hero.....TPI (all years), aluminum heads (most years), roller lifters (most years), and only available in higher end F-Bodies......and the top rated Gen III F-Body engine available with a m/t. I suspect build data will show it to be in the top three of the best selling specs ever of performance Gen I Chevy small blocks.
The aluminmum heads were covered, so I will not talk about those.
The Roller cam started in 1987 and lasted through 1992. The 1 piece rear main seal on the block started in 1986, and the center bolt valve covers started in 1987. The Serpentine belt started in 1988.
Originally Posted by mcsilver
The nastyz28 website seems to give all the Camaro LB9 build numbers year-by-year, can anyone assure me those are reliable stats? I haven't found a GEN III Firebird friendly site yet for build numbers. I've talked to my librarian about borrowing a Camaro White Book by interlibrary loan, but there are no such copies in the Canadian system.
Any help on LB9-powered car build numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
To bring this all into perspective there were 1,517,623 Camaro's and 817,444 Firebirds made between 1982 & 1992. OR if you add them together 2,334,067 3rd Gen F-bodies...
Apologies if I missed seeing this reported..
Looking at the Tech Data Section for each of the years listed on this site (such as https://www.thirdgen.org/1982-chevy-camaro/) etc., I found these totals for Camaro (I didn't look at Firebird):
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Different sources have different production numbers. I am not sure why...
There are some transposed numbers... I am not sure who is right...
Here is from dealer information: The information you gave is from the White book... It like any other source has some errors, as do my sources.
Camaro
82 - 178,808 Alternate: ( "L" Van Nuys 121,512, "N" Norwood 68,223 = 189,735)
83 - 154,381 Alternate ( L 68,810, N 85,571 = 154,381)
84 - 261,592 Alternate ( L 100,729, N 160,862 = 261,591)
85 - 180,018
86 - 192,219
87 - 137,760
88 - 96,275
89 - 110,739
90 - 34,896
91 - 100,838
92 - 70,707
Regardless, the fact remains there was about 2.3 Million 3rd gens
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
The errors in the exact number illustrate the futility of trying to mathematically determine rarity of a thirdgen. Fact of the matter is the numbers only give you a general guideline and no one knows exactly how truly accurate they are. Aside from trivia they have little value.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
So, does anyone know the whereabouts of that 1 1989 RPO coded AA8 Notchback GTA & is it safe to assume that it would be both rare and valuable regardless of LB9 or L98?
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
From my understanding, there was actually more than 1 AA8 RPO in 1989, JT has a list apparently. But only one car got the actual hatch, the others just got the RPO. I want to think there was 11 or something that went to Canada...
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I found what seems to be that unicorn earlier today and it was for sale, but its RPO code in the center console is missing.... any other way to validate that it is in fact the AA8?
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by Bounty600
So, does anyone know the whereabouts of that 1 1989 RPO coded AA8 Notchback GTA & is it safe to assume that it would be both rare and valuable regardless of LB9 or L98?
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
The missing RPO sheet is convenient. For the owner that is. Chances are it is an 89 with the hatch. Make sure it is not an aftermarket hatch, I know some companies out there make similar hatches.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
The missing RPO sheet is convenient. For the owner that is. Chances are it is an 89 with the hatch. Make sure it is not an aftermarket hatch, I know some companies out there make similar hatches.
John
Agreed,
Thing is the guy who owns it isn't a pontiac guy, he's in the military and selling bc he wants to go back to carbed chevelles. Tells me he's owned it 6 months. It's clean, but not perfect. It's priced around 6800, which for the mileage and condition is more than reasonable. My only real hang up is that the RPO codes are gone. If it were there and I could validate it I'd be driving her home as we speak.
The guy has no real vehicle history, is there a tell tale for the hatch to not be original?
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I own a 1988 GTA notchback and the genuine rear hatches have the ridge down the middle of it like the one your looking at has. The after market ones I've seen don't have that center ridge. They also don't have the plastic trim under the hatch like this one does. I would say this car has a genuine factory hatch and interior trim. What this car doesn't have are the rear seats that only the GTA Notchbacks came with. The notch back has two tall head rests on it's back seat which are unique to them.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by yo soy el warg
What this car doesn't have are the rear seats that only the GTA Notchbacks came with. The notch back has two tall head rests on it's back seat which are unique to them.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
I forgot about the special Back seats... They are also the same back seats as the TTA If I remember Correctly.
So, from this information, it is an 89 GTA, with an 88 Notchback on it. Probably got it from a junkyard, painted or maybe it was the right color...
John
Your right about the TTA having the same seats in the rear. I have heard that too, but never seen one in person.
Seems like they had a use for the seats on the TTA that were left over when the Notchbacks were discontinued after a one year run. GM likes to recycle all the parts that they can.
Last edited by yo soy el warg; May 29, 2018 at 05:39 PM.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
From my understanding, there was actually more than 1 AA8 RPO in 1989, JT has a list apparently. But only one car got the actual hatch, the others just got the RPO. I want to think there was 11 or something that went to Canada...
There are several 1989 GTAs with the Notchback code that went to Canada. Without seeing the cars in person, it's not 100% if they had the hatch or just the code. However, pulling a few invoices for them confirms the option and extra cost to the car for the option. That suggests to me they did come with the hatch. Unless there was some sort of credit after the invoice.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by yo soy el warg
Your right about the TTA having the same seats in the rear. I have heard that too, but never seen one in person.
Seems like they had a use for the seats on the TTA that were left over when the Notchbacks were discontinued after a one year run. GM likes to recycle all the parts that they can.
I do not think they were "left over" per-se. With any part, the cost of the tool diminishes with the number of parts produced with the tool. Therefore I suspect that the TTAs used the back seats in order to justify the tooling cost for the part, and to make the car more special than just an engine transplant, some emblems and stickers. Keep in mind that all TTAs came with the tan interior, so the parts would have to be made for each car... As someone that is in production, When an order was placed for a vehicle, the parts that it needed for the assembly would have also been ordered. There are several parts that would have been off the shelf parts, IE suspension pieces, or windows, doors, hoods, hatches. But any of the parts that were to go onto any car would have to be ordered and shipped to the assembly plant. I do not think there was a pile of special cloth back seats sitting at Van Nuys waiting to be installed into a TTA, rather, the part was ordered, and then when everything was at the factory ready to be installed they put that car together. There may be over runs or extras that were on hand just in case of damage but I am not even sure about that. When I was at the GM employee reunion at Norwood I remember asking or someone asking about what happened if a part was not available for the car, they said there was a special place they would put the car if something was missing until the part came in or was available.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
I do not think they were "left over" per-se. With any part, the cost of the tool diminishes with the number of parts produced with the tool. Therefore I suspect that the TTAs used the back seats in order to justify the tooling cost for the part, and to make the car more special than just an engine transplant, some emblems and stickers. Keep in mind that all TTAs came with the tan interior, so the parts would have to be made for each car... As someone that is in production, When an order was placed for a vehicle, the parts that it needed for the assembly would have also been ordered. There are several parts that would have been off the shelf parts, IE suspension pieces, or windows, doors, hoods, hatches. But any of the parts that were to go onto any car would have to be ordered and shipped to the assembly plant. I do not think there was a pile of special cloth back seats sitting at Van Nuys waiting to be installed into a TTA, rather, the part was ordered, and then when everything was at the factory ready to be installed they put that car together. There may be over runs or extras that were on hand just in case of damage but I am not even sure about that. When I was at the GM employee reunion at Norwood I remember asking or someone asking about what happened if a part was not available for the car, they said there was a special place they would put the car if something was missing until the part came in or was available.
Sorry for the ramble.
John
John
I like your rambling. It usually gives me information I've never read elsewhere. I'm not very familiar with the TTA and also didn't know that they only had a tan interior in them. Thanks for the info.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
They are a novelty, honestly I would not buy one just to get the mirror option. I think they were dropped because they were unpopular more than anything
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by okfoz
They are a novelty, honestly I would not buy one just to get the mirror option. I think they were dropped because they were unpopular more than anything
I wouldn't buy it just for the mirror option but it is a nice to have and is desired among GTA fans. I wish mine had had it but it was a short run feature
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Originally Posted by IMissMy86TA
I wouldn't buy it just for the mirror option but it is a nice to have and is desired among GTA fans. I wish mine had had it but it was a short run feature
They are neat, do not take me wrong. Actually they were a short run feature in the Domestic markets only... The Mirrors were used on F-body European export models until 1992 IIRC due to their breakaway collapse capability...
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Is there a website out there where I could just plug in my VIN (1G2FW2387ML210240) to determine production numbers of a given model with certain RPO codes? I've got a 1991 Trans Am, Blue, Grey interior, 5.7L. Just curious.
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Hello,
I am new to this posting questions on sites, but I have a 86 IROC/Z that I have owned for a number of years now and I think it is unusual because it has very few options. AC delete, manual windows, non tilt column, etc. Based on the RPO codes am I correct in assuming this? I would appreciate any information pertaining to this car. Thanks!
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I have followed collectible cars for quite a long time and low optioned cars are desired if they have high-performance options for the year. They are seen as purpose-built cars and are desired. 1960s muscle cars and corvettes with AC delete or radio delete are sought after by a lot of buyers. they are rare due to this. that 50K miles I would store it.
hopefully, you got it at a good price!
Originally Posted by 694275sp
Hello,
I am new to this posting questions on sites, but I have a 86 IROC/Z that I have owned for a number of years now and I think it is unusual because it has very few options. AC delete, manual windows, non tilt column, etc. Based on the RPO codes am I correct in assuming this? I would appreciate any information pertaining to this car. Thanks!
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
It certainly is a fun car to drive. The fact that it was built pretty much like a car from the 60's, (clear glass, roll up windows, vinyl seats, biggest exhaust, 4 wheel disc) is what really attracted me to it. I have not seen another one with so few options.
