Well First I whant to thank for all this info that it is just fantastic. Second I do realize that people that collect carrs or anithing like to collect things that are rare or desirable. That said For me as a Car guy it is not that important what rare or desirable my car is to others I Like it to please my taste. and as you stated I wanted a powerfull car and a good looking one (For me and to my opinion) that is why I got my 1989 GTA and I need to admit that the GTA badge has a lot to do with my desition because it as I belive before was a special edition an more likely to be Rare a Desirable. I just whant a car to drive and have fun with it. So my point is that don't get all tangle in the rare or desirable just buy what you like and enjoy it for what it is.

For the record I don't like the fact that they didn't put a manual transmition in GTAs with 5.7L engines but it is what it is.

Thank you all for a grate site and forum.

David...

John u have it covered, though I found your info a little jumbled with the mix of years and makes all together please don't take offence I just thought this other site showed a good brief on the 1LE Camaro. As the car I have is a 5.7 auto Z28 with all the right codes Z28, G92, L98,B2L for a 1LE. though it has A/C and power everything except power seats. has all the 1LE features Though the pre purchase Check Came back Stating its a Walker Camaro ???? This has me baffled>> Could this be a fully optioned 1LE John you opinion would be welcomed as I'm not sure what I have

I know that it is hard to find particular cars IE how many 1987 IROCs with the 350 is down on the list. The list was originally compiled to show which cars are the most rare, and going to more common (albeit, none of the cars on the list are "Common")

I have considered breaking them out by year, but if someone else wants to copy and paste for an hour, go at it.

I deleted the past so many posts due to incorrect information being posted. We all know that the 350 was available in 1987, so posts stating otherwise go against the grain of correctness!!!

I have a question if no one minds answering it:

does anyone know how many Trans Ams in 1990 were made with L98s? I see a figure stating 1900, but thats for all formulas, GTAs, and T/As.
thanks

Nothing special about my 89 Formy 350 [[13,041 (1989) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98]] but at least I know its a true 350.

Just ordered my dealer kit and then I will order the window sticker. Hopefully that will clear up what exactly I have. I went through a bunch of the VIN decoders and the most I got back was that the car has a "W66" option code. Hoping that's a misprint for a WS6, but the documentation should put my speculation to bed.

Great info - thanks for your hard work.

If it is a Formula then you have the WS6, and since it has the 350 you will have the performance gear 3.27.

John

unusual would describe our 1984 S/E W69 it is a LL1 v-6 and the dealer
added the WS6 performance package and the MD8 4 speed overdrive
trans it also has the J65 4 wheel disc.
There were only like 10,309 S/E built for the 1984 model year.

<--- there is more info over there

In 84, the only engine to get the 3 speed auto or the 4 speed manual was the 4 cyl to my knowledge. So that portion is not all that uncommon. The WS6 was an option on the S/E, it was unusual, and it really was not exactly like the WS6 on the Trans Am, but it was similar. The rear sway bar was smaller on the S/E IIRC... You should have a 12mm rear sway bar.

Unlike later years where disc brakes were not really an option as much as part of a calculation based upon other options, like engine and transmission, the early years almost everything was available individually. Disc brakes were actually part of the WS6 package, the WS7 was with Drum brakes. However you could order disc brakes without the WS6.

From 87+ WS6 with the LG4 came with drum brakes, but the L98 w/WS6 all came with Disc brakes (exception in 1991 with the shortage of disc brakes & Exported cars.)

Regardless, it sounds like a neat car. Enjoy.

forgot to mention this is a one owner car, and you would not believe how many people asked who changed the taillights finally figured out the S/E and Trans Am have the same exact taillights...

Here is a rear shot of the car brand new in 1984

Im curious out of the 403 1992 formula 350's made, how many were hard top and how many were t-top. I still cant believe there were only 403 formula 350's made in 1992.

about 200 each, IIRC there as something like 204 or 205 with T-tops.

Thats crazy. Who knew i had 1 of about 200 1992 Formula 350 hard tops.

YOU do now! congrats! any chance you will now be putting it back to stock?:P

Really? Sounds like an odd combo. I remember having an 82 TA with a 4 speed manual, carbed 305. T-Tops too. It was all original as far as I could tell but it was a hot mess so I sold it pretty quickly after I got it. Only had it about 6 months.

In 1982, you could only get the 4 speed Manual (Muncie?) trans or the 3 speed auto trans (350?). From 82-86 in theory you could only buy a 4 cyl with the 4 speed or the 3 speed auto in 1986 there was no 4 cyl made, and I am not sure if there was any in 1985 either, but they had the option...

Furthermore the Firebird & Camaro with the 4 cyl are infamous as they are listed in the book "Cars we love to Hate" If I remember the title correctly...

The IRON DUKE baby!!!!

An 85 Berlinetta with a gooseneck (tower)? radio and the Iron Duke! lmao

Hated that car then - was a friends. But that be cool **** right now.

There was another 200 in 1991 and another 1300 (hear-say) in 1989 Formula 350's with T-tops.

John

So the 1300 Formula's is hearsay out of the 13041 L98 T-Top cars made in 89. That puts a whole different paint job on things. The more rare I find my car to be, the less I want to go into deep modifications.

Too bad more specific numbers aren't available. If someone breaks down cruise control and black paint out of the 1300 into a really small slice, I may end up doing a resto instead of a stroker, 2004r, 4th gen int swap, and other replacement/swap parts.

If its that rare of a car, then I don't want to take it too far from stock form cause it can ruin the value.

Interestingly the book states quite literally, "If you never want to get a speeding ticket, buy an 82-83 Camaro with the Iron Duke."

In all honesty it is your car, do with it as you wish. If it was mine, a low miles almost perfect car, keep it stock... If it was ok condition, high miles, do with it as you wish.

John

Its got a million miles on it but I bought it cause the body has little to no rust and only a couple dings, dents. No major body issues outside typical rust on frame rails etc. Interior is pieced together "grey" 3rd gen seats.

I'm gonna need to basically restore the car - all weatherstripping, seats and carpet, engine rebuild, trans rebuild/swap, rear, suspension, etc. Not sure if its worth putting back to stock form with a slightly modified block and beefed up tranny or going the 383-2004r heavy mod direction.

Edmunds has them for $10k in good condition. I can do a resto with near factory paint for about $10k if I do the work myself. But I really didn't plan on getting the car to recoup value. Its just something in the back of my mind when I make plans.

The whole reason I bought this damn car was because the appraiser told me to stop modifying my LS1 cause it was going to lose value the further away from stock i went.

Allright fellas, I've got an 87 Iroc with a 5.0 tpi and a 5speed with the g92 option, t-tops and a rear defogger. thats it. I may not have even had a radio because the rear panels that hold the speakers didn't have a hole for them or the fabric to cover them. I have the car sold but I'm having second thoughts. If it's rare, I might keep it and sell my Iroc hot rod

IMHO, It is a basic, no frills IROC...
Is it rare... Probably,
is it desirable? Probably not any more than any other LB9/MM5 87 IROC.
Is it Neat... Sure...
Would I want it? Probably not unless it was yellow,
Since it was before the 1LE program, it does not have 1LE which would automatically change the answer to a yes, but since it is not a 1LE...

The fact that it is an LB9/MM5/G92 makes it unusual on its own merit...

Is there anything new concerning 87 Convertible Firebirds? Just wondering if I could find any new stuff about my car. 87 GTA vert. Ive been planning on doing a rebuild on this car (slow however) but torn between modding it out and stock.

Does anyone know the production numbers for 1991 B4C LB9 1LE Camaros? I would assume almost all of the B4Cs were L98s which would lead me to believe that an LB9 B4C would be quite rare.

The rule of thumb on thirdgen is "its your car - do what you want to it".

There are a lot of resources right here on Thirdgen that can help you. Going from my recall based on the info that okfoz has posted here, and what I have read elsewhere, there were only a handful of vert firebirds built in 87. It was a "dealer option" so the car had to be shipped to ASC from the dealership, and fabbed in Michigan by ASC and shipped back to dealer. I don't remember if this was an actual "check box" or a separate "vert order" sheet at the dealer. The info on this site should provide that.

okfoz also sent me some great documentation on the vert process from ASC and other vert top vendors for GM. I don't have it in front of me otherwise i would try to post, send to you via PM or whatnot.

From a documentation perspective in my opinion, I would contact Allied Vaughn (vehicleinvoice@alliedvaughn.com) so you can get your "Dealer Kit". After that, contact Pontiac Historical Servers (phs.org) for your reproduction window sticker. Picking up the 87 Pontiac and/or Firebird dealership brochure is a nice have, can probably be found on ebay or someone here, and provides a bit more depth into your car.

While everyone knows everyone has an opinion, I'll give you mine - keep such a rare find in stock condition and restore it back to original condition.

I recently bought a formula 350 (a dime a dozen) to build out as a time trial/street rod. After 3 months of researching this site for my project, I stumbled upon a rare 89 formula vert for sale. If I can convince someone to buy the 350 that was planned for a full mod, I would pick up the vert formula and do a full resto. Its all about personal opinion, wants, and likes. Again, from my opinion, I would rather have that rare 305 TPI vert and make it stock pristine - unmodded - over the modded 350 formy. I would do the same with a hardly seen 87 GTA vert. But going back to the rule of thumb, its your car....

I 100% agree. it is their choice. I agree that if I owned the car that is what I would do IF it is a ASC vert. There are a lot that were done by other shops for dealers on the cheap and are not as structurally sound and not worth much resto wise. only ASCs are considered to be semi-"official" factory verts!

Slowridr do what you want or you can open it up to discussion by creating your own thread.

Formulas rock

Well yeah like Duh everyone knows that..lol
just sayin

I have a 1984 z28 H.O. car has a hard top 5 speed,no a/c and no air ducts for the a/c. It does not have power locks but has power windows and power hatch. It has vents that you pull to let air in like cars from the 70's just wondering did they make alot of these in 84?

that has to be rare. never heard of that on a third gen!

I don't care about rarity and as for desirabilty there's in my opion nothing better than third gen period. Third gen's the charm

Unfortunately they did not keep track of options like that... all we would get at this point is the number of L69, MM5... Not many w/o A/C but anyone's guess...

Out of the 261,591 Camaros 227,866 had A/C, 52457 w/L69...

Does anyone know how many 1984 L/69 z-28s were made if 52457 were made with air then would it be easy to find out how many didnt have air if we know total production?

I would like to see the RPO code list for this car, can you post a picture of it?

Im new at this what is the RPO?

52457 is the total number of L69 Camaros in 1984... Of course 1984 was the only year you could get the L69 with an Auto, so that also throws a wrench into things.

just want to say, I'm glad I searched and found this thread!

thankyou to everyone that contributed to these numbers. I'm a driver, and as these cars are getting older, I was scared knowing my luck, I'd pick up a rare 1LE Trans Am, modify it and drive it all out, only to find out later it was a 1LE!!

my last name is Murphy, so I'm used to this kind of thing. My Dad, he sold a car back in 1972... for a new pickup truck! All I have left is pictures of my Dad's 426 Hemi 1969 Charger...

this definitely takes my worries away. Just wanted to say thanks and this thread is a I'm really glad I'm looking for 1990 and older 5.0 manual Trans Ams

Regular Production Option I have also hear Regular Production Order, either way it is (at least for GM) a 3 digit code that allows the owner or dealer to decipher each option on a vehicle. Rather than have a 3 page manifesto of options spelled out they could put it on a small accessible sticker.

John

Dear OKFOZ, I was wondering how rare is my car is , and if it would move up onto your list? I own a 1991 Tojan, with a factory v6. I have paper work to prove it has the original engine and even shows up in the vin number as a v6.

I have no idea... Call Knudson they might still know.

John

I'm new to this and not sure if I'm in the right spot. I've located what I believe to be a real '88 IROC 1LE car. Still has roll bars and race seat and 50k miles. Clean carfax. The owner gave me the RPO codes. Please help me verify if it is the real deal. Thanks.
Ben

Line 1: A129 A01 86Q C41 DX3 D35 D7J D80 E52 E72 E92 FE2
Line 2: GM3 G80 G92 J65 KC4 K68 LB9 MK6 MM5 NA5 NP5 N65 N96
Line 3: PB4 QPZ T93 T96 UM6 UQ1 U79 VAN VK3 V73 WW1 W62 Z28
Line 4: 1AZ 1SA 15P 19I 199 4OU 6DB 8NN 9NN


Bottom of sticker: BCCC WA-L8554 U8554 19B

This is not a 1LE. You don't see the 1LE RPO code, then it isn't one. It has the right options being that the AC delete is there, LB9/MM5 and G92, but without that code, it isn't a 1LE. They did use the RPO code on all 1LEs, even the early ones. This car also has T96 (fog lights). In 1988, two cars had fog lights and two didn't. After 1988, all 1LEs came without T96. The roll bar is not a factory piece. The fact that the car has 1AZ tells me that it was special ordered, but the VIN might make it earlier than the the 1LE program.

Any way to find out how many of these 52457 L69's are 5-speeds with t-tops?

Owner claims it is a SCCA car. The vin is 1G1FP21F1JL147196
Shouldn't it have B4Z on there?

Guess about half - Total Guess, its just the rule of averages.

My guess would be 10-20% as many like a auto for daily driving and not like what we normally do these days.. store and use on nice days

I read his question as if he was asking how many of the 5 speed cars had T-tops.

I should have read it
1) How many are 5 speeds
2) How many of those have T-tops.

In reality, you are correct I would think about 10-20% of the L69s were 5 speeds...

Here is what we know about 1984 Camaros, take it for what it is worth.
261,591 TOTAL Camaros in 1984
52,457 L69 (all Z28)
90,278 T-tops (lower than I expected, usually about half, but actually about 1/3)
47,441 Manual trans Total.

in 1983,
the CFI sold 19847 units, they were all automatic and the L69 sold 3223 units, all were Manual, or about 16.2%.

in 1985, it was similar, albeit more skewed, 32836 Auto/LB9 and 2497 Manual L69 or about 7.6%

Therefore if we do a little logic for 1984 (not like it really works here, but hey! its fun playing with numbers.) It would think about 10-15% of the L69 cars probably had the manual like mentioned before. Of those maybe 33%-50% had the T-tops...

We covered that 34% total cars had T-tops in 84 and 18% of the total cars had the manual trans.

If we ever found a legitimate number of 3.73 rear gears for 1984, we might actually get the real number of L69/M5 cars, as I think that was what the L69/M5 came with, and only with the L69/M5 for that matter. I thought I had an article with it in there, but cannot find it.

Yeah I just pulled an % from experience in looking at ads and shopping when I bought mine but yeah.. the "math" kind of works