READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
04-12-2011, 11:34 AM
#251
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Car: 1986 Trans Am WS6/1991 Firebird
Engine: 305 TPI/305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4 in both
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
U52 is the RPO
1985 - NO INFO
1986 - 878
1987 - 5,352 (GTA & T/A, US Delivered cars www.gtasourcepage.com)
1988 - 5,102 (GTA figures ONLY, US Delivered cars www.gtasourcepage.com)
1989 - 3 (GTA figures ONLY, US Delivered cars www.gtasourcepage.com)
1985 - NO INFO
1986 - 878
1987 - 5,352 (GTA & T/A, US Delivered cars www.gtasourcepage.com)
1988 - 5,102 (GTA figures ONLY, US Delivered cars www.gtasourcepage.com)
1989 - 3 (GTA figures ONLY, US Delivered cars www.gtasourcepage.com)
04-12-2011, 12:25 PM
#252
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
The 878 number is from Dealer information... not entirely sure how reliable it is, but 99% of the time it has been almost spot on...
Honestly, I do not recall seeing many 85's or 86's either with the Digital dash... It was definitely more popular in 1987 & 1988... I have production for the 1985 Camaro Berlinetta, but not the T/A...
Honestly, I am not even 100% sure if it was an option... I thought it started in 1985 however...
John
Honestly, I do not recall seeing many 85's or 86's either with the Digital dash... It was definitely more popular in 1987 & 1988... I have production for the 1985 Camaro Berlinetta, but not the T/A...
Honestly, I am not even 100% sure if it was an option... I thought it started in 1985 however...
John
04-16-2011, 04:28 PM
#253
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Car: 1982 trans am
Engine: 350
Transmission: 4 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.08
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
i probably am misinterpriting this list but there were only 46 base firebirds with a 5 speed transmission?
04-16-2011, 05:38 PM
#254
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Car: '88 GTA, '89, '94 Firebird, '84 T/A
Engine: 5.0L TPI (GTA); '89 -2.8; '94 -3.4
Transmission: 5 speed (for all 3),auto for T/A
Axle/Gears: 3.45 (GTA only)
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
My question as well.
I recently bought a base 1991 Firebird and it has the LO3 engine and the 5-speed. Question as well on the 46 base Firebirds for 1991, is there a breakdown on V6 vs V8 numbers?
Also, does that include export cars? Since my '91 is a Canadian car, is that number included in the 46?
I recently bought a base 1991 Firebird and it has the LO3 engine and the 5-speed. Question as well on the 46 base Firebirds for 1991, is there a breakdown on V6 vs V8 numbers?
Also, does that include export cars? Since my '91 is a Canadian car, is that number included in the 46?
04-19-2011, 10:48 PM
#256
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I checked with Compnine's database and I'm not seeing the 46 base Firebirds with 5-speed figure appear. That's not to say it's not right.
When I omit the W66,Y84 and Y83/WS4 to make the selections a base Firebird (correct?), I get different figures.
1829 with the L03 and 5-speed. 68 of them show as Z49s
747 with the V6 and 5-speed. 2 of them show as Z49s
With such a large discrepancy, I'd be cautious. Maybe John can shed some light.
When I omit the W66,Y84 and Y83/WS4 to make the selections a base Firebird (correct?), I get different figures.
1829 with the L03 and 5-speed. 68 of them show as Z49s
747 with the V6 and 5-speed. 2 of them show as Z49s
With such a large discrepancy, I'd be cautious. Maybe John can shed some light.
My question as well.
I recently bought a base 1991 Firebird and it has the LO3 engine and the 5-speed. Question as well on the 46 base Firebirds for 1991, is there a breakdown on V6 vs V8 numbers?
Also, does that include export cars? Since my '91 is a Canadian car, is that number included in the 46?
I recently bought a base 1991 Firebird and it has the LO3 engine and the 5-speed. Question as well on the 46 base Firebirds for 1991, is there a breakdown on V6 vs V8 numbers?
Also, does that include export cars? Since my '91 is a Canadian car, is that number included in the 46?
04-20-2011, 07:03 AM
#257
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I am trying to remember where that number came from... I would not have posted it unless I had something to back it up... In hindsight I wish I would have posted my sources and how I came to those numbers...
JT, did I by chance forget to put Convertibles... Normally I would not have posted hard-top Base anything...
John
JT, did I by chance forget to put Convertibles... Normally I would not have posted hard-top Base anything...
John
04-20-2011, 06:12 PM
#258
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
For 1991 Base Firebird Convertibles, Compnine shows 14 with the V6 and 5-speed and 37 with the L03 and 5-speed.
I rechecked the previous figures as I posted earlier, and I still get the same figures as posted.
I wouldn't doubt that you posted something that had some backing, which is why I wondered if the discrepancy is elsewhere.
I rechecked the previous figures as I posted earlier, and I still get the same figures as posted.
I wouldn't doubt that you posted something that had some backing, which is why I wondered if the discrepancy is elsewhere.
I am trying to remember where that number came from... I would not have posted it unless I had something to back it up... In hindsight I wish I would have posted my sources and how I came to those numbers...
JT, did I by chance forget to put Convertibles... Normally I would not have posted hard-top Base anything...
John
JT, did I by chance forget to put Convertibles... Normally I would not have posted hard-top Base anything...
John
04-20-2011, 06:45 PM
#259
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
hmm... I know there are some odds and ends production figures in the old Red book... I wonder??? I dont have my book here tho.
John
John
04-22-2011, 06:51 AM
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Car: 1983 Z/28, 2010 Camaro
Engine: L69
Transmission: 5 Speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
John ,
I have one of the 1983 L69 Camaros. It also has the Lear Seats. I tried the Compnine web site and it would not recognize my vin. Is there any way to break this down ?
L69, 67E interior,67 exterior
Thanks
I have one of the 1983 L69 Camaros. It also has the Lear Seats. I tried the Compnine web site and it would not recognize my vin. Is there any way to break this down ?
L69, 67E interior,67 exterior
Thanks
04-22-2011, 08:49 AM
#262
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
For all intents and purposes for our cars, Compnine is only good from 1990+ from 82-89 they only have canadian export cars...
To answer your question, in a word... No
To answer your question, in a word... No
04-22-2011, 11:31 AM
#263
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Car: 1987 camaro iroc-z
Engine: 5.7, 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: bw, 3.27
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Do you happen to know how many 1987 yellow camaro iroc-z 's with the 5.7 w/t-tops, cloth int. were built? thanks Tim
07-20-2011, 01:08 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Wow great job on the list, its great to see someone with so much passion for these great cars. MUCH RESPECT. I have 1 of the 4 1990 trans am 1LE. But mine is the only one that was shipped to canada. Do you know anything about this? any information you know would be greatly appreciated. rarity, value, desirable etc.
07-20-2011, 12:11 PM
#265
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...e-players.html
Contact Mark, he is our local guru on the Canadian Players/1LE cars... He is your go-to guy
Contact Mark, he is our local guru on the Canadian Players/1LE cars... He is your go-to guy
07-23-2011, 01:11 PM
#266
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Car: 86 IROC
Engine: 5.0 TPI
Transmission: 700-R-4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 open
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
i live in east tennessee and here its quite rare to find a running third gen camaro or firebird,sure, sometimes you run across a sad, hacked up piece of junk, that can only be described as a "parts car". but if you are looking for a decent example ,they are not to be found. so IMHO any 82-92 camaro that has not been "schoolboyed" to death is a rarity. and worth whatever YOUR heart says it is. happy hunting!
07-23-2011, 02:55 PM
#267
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
That is part of the life cycle of cars especially sporty cars that most teenagers really prefer.
They start out new
They become used
Many end up trashed
Most are crushed
The remaining crappy ones are restored
The really nice original ones go up in value
The really nice restored ones follow
Its a simplification, but honestly I think I have seen maybe a handful of 3rd gens this summer, waay less than previous years...
John
They start out new
They become used
Many end up trashed
Most are crushed
The remaining crappy ones are restored
The really nice original ones go up in value
The really nice restored ones follow
Its a simplification, but honestly I think I have seen maybe a handful of 3rd gens this summer, waay less than previous years...
John
07-23-2011, 09:57 PM
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Car: 1983 SE Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: 700r4
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I am restoring my 83 se i have had it for 25 years and it has sat in the driveway for the last 14 years and needs some work. I took it to a shop and the guy said the se firebird with the 5.0 he hasn't seen much of in the early 80's it was a special order because of the gas boycott at that time and only the trans ams had the 5.0 . stock.the car is loaded and i looked it up there were 30,000 plus ta and 10,000 plus se does anyone think it might be worth something ? Thanks for any answers . https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/pict...ictureid=25285
Last edited by barbarian; 07-23-2011 at 10:04 PM.
07-24-2011, 05:07 AM
#269
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I am restoring my 83 se i have had it for 25 years and it has sat in the driveway for the last 14 years and needs some work. I took it to a shop and the guy said the se firebird with the 5.0 he hasn't seen much of in the early 80's it was a special order because of the gas boycott at that time and only the trans ams had the 5.0 . stock.the car is loaded and i looked it up there were 30,000 plus ta and 10,000 plus se does anyone think it might be worth something ? Thanks for any answers . https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/pict...ictureid=25285
07-27-2011, 11:03 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I was woundering if I'm reading this thing right? If I have a car I'm pretty sure fits in this area=> 12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98. But also I'm told that they only made 75 cars that year with the Borg-warner rearend, which mine has. Does that make my car rare or desirable???
07-27-2011, 11:15 AM
#271
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I was woundering if I'm reading this thing right? If I have a car I'm pretty sure fits in this area=> 12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98. But also I'm told that they only made 75 cars that year with the Borg-warner rearend, which mine has. Does that make my car rare or desirable???
07-27-2011, 08:46 PM
#272
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I might be wrong... AFAIK but the B&W was installed on cars through 1989, in 1990 they went to the Saginaw axle.
John
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07-28-2011, 03:09 AM
#273
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Car: 1986 Yellow Iroc-Z
Engine: 305
Transmission: Auto
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
What do you guys think? I have a 1986 yellow iroc-z with t-tops and factory louvers. It has the 305 tpi but with the bigger fictory cam that was only and option in the 2nd half of 86 and the 145 speedo.
07-28-2011, 02:54 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I'm not totally sure, I may have to check my facts again but the Borg warner was used on few model firebirds and camaros alike starting in the mid 80s to 92 and having any car with one makes it rare. I rebuilt my whole Borg Warner rearend and caught hell trying to find parts. But that was about 6 or 7 years ago.
07-28-2011, 08:50 PM
#275
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I would have to look it up, but the B&W started in 1985 on the Firebird and then in 1986 on the Camaro, 1989 was the last year. The Saginaw axle was used from 1990-1992 I am 95% certain that the B&W was dropped for 1990.
John
John
07-28-2011, 09:26 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Thanks, I think you're exactly correct on the years that the Borg was used but it was used on only select vehicles. All other F-bodies got the saginaw(or 10-bolt) rear end from 82-92. Thus I have been told that if you have a car with both the 5.7 engine and the Borg rear...pretty nice to have 
I'm restoring mine now...gonna take years!
I'm restoring mine now...gonna take years! Last edited by 01T/A88IROC-Z; 07-28-2011 at 10:20 PM.
07-28-2011, 10:34 PM
#277
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Car: 86 IROC
Engine: 5.0 TPI
Transmission: 700-R-4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 open
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
pardon me sir ,but its one thing to know how many of our cars were built. but its something else entirely to know how many are left. my guess is ,soon third gen camaros and firebirds will be as rare as ....say a 67 ss350 camaro. its like. once it was no big deal to see them, but now just try and find one.im not trying to be a butthead here just that im on the other end of things now
07-29-2011, 08:28 PM
#278
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I know that it is becoming more and more unusual to see a third Gen. I have been in WI for a week and honestly I have seen Two. Been taking 2 45 min drives to and from Oshkosh, Even more-so, I cannot think of many 3rd gens that I have seen other than my own all summer. I remember one or two nice IROC-Zs and a few Z28's its like no one wants to drive them...
John
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09-05-2011, 09:27 AM
#279
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Car: 1988 Firebird Trans Am
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27:1 LSD 9 Bolt Disc Rear
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I think my car is a slightly interesting package. built in van nuys it's a 1988 Trans Am with the 5.7 TPI, 3.27 lsd 9 bolt borg warner, ws6 wheels/suspension, it's got those gta seats I can't think of the name, it's a hardtop, 4 wheel disc, it's like a gta without being a gta. it's a bright silver colour. you'd think the original owner would have just bought a GTA lol..
Last edited by lsd88ta; 09-05-2011 at 09:36 AM. Reason: added pic
09-08-2011, 06:11 PM
#280
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
I think my car is a slightly interesting package. built in van nuys it's a 1988 Trans Am with the 5.7 TPI, 3.27 lsd 9 bolt borg warner, ws6 wheels/suspension, it's got those gta seats I can't think of the name, it's a hardtop, 4 wheel disc, it's like a gta without being a gta. it's a bright silver colour. you'd think the original owner would have just bought a GTA lol..
John
09-08-2011, 06:32 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Well I was wanting to start a new thread and ask if there is any value in TPI parts anymore. Back when I was dabbling in TPI engine rebuilds and performance they were like gold. I'm clearing out my shop and ran accross a box of intakes, runners, throttle bodies, runners and misc. Going to list them on ebay but wondering if its even worth the hassle anymore. Sure would appreciate it if an admin would move this question to a thread so I could aquire some input. Throw the stuff in the dumpster or ebay it?
09-08-2011, 07:17 PM
#282
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
To be honest, PM me with what you have and I will let you know... If your close to where I live I would be interested in seeing what you got...
To be honest, there not as "golden" as they once were, they tend to fall in the category of "old technology" as the LS motors seem to be the way most people are going as of late.
John
To be honest, there not as "golden" as they once were, they tend to fall in the category of "old technology" as the LS motors seem to be the way most people are going as of late.
John
09-08-2011, 08:12 PM
#283
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Car: 1989 GTA, 1985 T/A
Engine: L98, LG4
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Hi all,
My brother has a 1990 IROC, loaded, and appears to have a BW rear as installed at the factory. I have seen a few other cars in the 1990 to 1991 years locally that have BW rears with PBR brakes, but have also seen high-option cars of the same years with rear drum brakes as well. I have attached the RPO sticker from the 90 IROC.
Also, I am aware of another T/A similar the the one discussed. This car had the Ultima seats and BW rear, but lacked almost every other option. No power windows, locks, etc. Might be able to get a code sheet for that one, I can inquire if you'd like it.
Also, I agree with your earlier statement about most of these cars being wrecked. Just bought an 85 T/A, took me nearly a year and 20 cars to find something without holes in it. 85% original paint, I am the second owner. Its an LG4, so it will get modded, but the paint will stay as long as it holds out.
Cheers,
Paul
My brother has a 1990 IROC, loaded, and appears to have a BW rear as installed at the factory. I have seen a few other cars in the 1990 to 1991 years locally that have BW rears with PBR brakes, but have also seen high-option cars of the same years with rear drum brakes as well. I have attached the RPO sticker from the 90 IROC.
Also, I am aware of another T/A similar the the one discussed. This car had the Ultima seats and BW rear, but lacked almost every other option. No power windows, locks, etc. Might be able to get a code sheet for that one, I can inquire if you'd like it.
Also, I agree with your earlier statement about most of these cars being wrecked. Just bought an 85 T/A, took me nearly a year and 20 cars to find something without holes in it. 85% original paint, I am the second owner. Its an LG4, so it will get modded, but the paint will stay as long as it holds out.
Cheers,
Paul
09-10-2011, 09:37 AM
#284
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Car: 1988 Firebird Trans Am
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
me too, unfortunately the previous owners seems to have wrecked the inside of the center console lid so no sticker.. I searched everywhere for that sticker too. I've checked vin number, ecm part numbers, diff etc, it all seems matching numbers. but I know without the RPO codes it's hard to stamp things as officially original. is there anyway I can get that info again? I know it's not a "valuable" car but it's always interesting to see factory options.
09-23-2011, 02:40 PM
#285
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Did you check under the passenger front seat? Usually the build sheet is in between the seat springs and foam. Otherwise you can go back to GM and pay about $80 to get the original window sticker.
09-26-2011, 10:46 PM
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Car: 90 Iroc
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700r4 Built by- Speed Secrets
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
how about the rarity of 1990 L98 Irocs with factory order C&C tops? yes it has the ttop RPO code and C&C marked tops.
laat 6 of vin are 133782 with build date 12/89
laat 6 of vin are 133782 with build date 12/89
09-27-2011, 12:21 PM
#287
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
09-27-2011, 01:33 PM
#289
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Well, since C&C provided aftermarket tops, there won't be an RPO denoting them. If there was an RPO for TTops on this car, then they are factory tops and the car is not a 350 from the factory. If you have a factory 350 using the L98 RPO CODE and also have CC1 for a 1990, I agree with John and would like to see the SPID label.
09-27-2011, 04:52 PM
#291
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Car: 90 Iroc
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700r4 Built by- Speed Secrets
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Well, since C&C provided aftermarket tops, there won't be an RPO denoting them. If there was an RPO for TTops on this car, then they are factory tops and the car is not a 350 from the factory. If you have a factory 350 using the L98 RPO CODE and also have CC1 for a 1990, I agree with John and would like to see the SPID label.
09-27-2011, 04:58 PM
#292
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
C&C T-tops are not factory order. Nobody knows how many C&C t-tops were installed on Thirdgens, but it's a descent number. I personally have 2 C&C t-tops cars. So, how rare is it/desirable, not more then any other 350 on average. It will be worth more to some who love t-tops, but less to others who enjoy the rigidity and lack of leaks of the hard tops. Also, you don't have the t-top RPO code, which is CC1.
09-27-2011, 05:09 PM
#293
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Car: 90 Iroc
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
C&C T-tops are not factory order. Nobody knows how many C&C t-tops were installed on Thirdgens, but it's a descent number. I personally have 2 C&C t-tops cars. So, how rare is it/desirable, not more then any other 350 on average. It will be worth more to some who love t-tops, but less to others who enjoy the rigidity and lack of leaks of the hard tops. Also, you don't have the t-top RPO code, which is CC1.
09-27-2011, 09:14 PM
#294
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Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
When you start breaking things down by month, why not go by day... Hey, I might have the only yellow Formula made on June 4th 1987 made in Norwood OH, and June 6th made in Van Nuys!!!... Well... Honestly Its not that big of a deal. If you had the very last IROC, that would be worth something, My estimation is its not worth anything more than any other IROC made for 1990...
I have no idea whether or not a C&C car has any more desirability than a hard top... Honestly to someone that really likes the car they it would be... The C&C tops were a good tried and true system that honestly were not bad from what I have read. I personally would not go out of my way to look for a C&C Topped car.
The fact that not many C&C T-top IROC 350's are out there, I would not think that means it is more or less desirable... I think one of the limiting factors will be that there are no records of which cars have been converted. Therefore there are no production figures, therefore no one can track whether or not it was done by whom and when...
There were 6 cars EXACTLY like yours.
http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=...33782&x=20&y=8
John
I have no idea whether or not a C&C car has any more desirability than a hard top... Honestly to someone that really likes the car they it would be... The C&C tops were a good tried and true system that honestly were not bad from what I have read. I personally would not go out of my way to look for a C&C Topped car.
The fact that not many C&C T-top IROC 350's are out there, I would not think that means it is more or less desirable... I think one of the limiting factors will be that there are no records of which cars have been converted. Therefore there are no production figures, therefore no one can track whether or not it was done by whom and when...
There were 6 cars EXACTLY like yours.
http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=...33782&x=20&y=8
John
Last edited by okfoz; 09-27-2011 at 09:20 PM.
10-14-2011, 08:04 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
The purpose of this thread is to help people with third gens understand what makes a car "desirable" and what makes a car "Rare" The two are not synonymous with each other.
Two cars, Both were made in 1989, one is "Rare" the other is more common. The first car is a Camaro with an AM radio, there was only 49 of them with the option in 1989. The second "More common" car is the Turbo Trans Am (TTA) they made 1555 of them. If we think of "Rare" as being valuable and the more rare something is makes it more valuable ultimately we are very mistaken... The 1989 TTA is worth WAY more than the Camaro with the AM radio, There should NOT be an argument about it, THIS is the way things are. To assume otherwise is futile and a waste of bandwidth IMHO.
This leads us into what determines a car to be "DESIRABLE"... HISTORY tells us that there are a few factors that determines desirability. For the most part PERFORMANCE plays a huge role in determining desirability. Very few cars, that do not perform have significant value in today's marketplace, I cannot think of many except for a Silver Ghost Rolls Royce. The second thing that makes a car desirable is Style or appearance. Convertibles are always more valuable than equally equipped hard tops, I do not know of a single exception to this rule. So a Z28 Convertible with a LB9/M5 will be worth MORE than a Z28 Hard top with an LB9/M5 with similar options and the same condition, EVERY TIME. Take ONE of the above factors, such as "Performance" or "Style" and THEN combine it with "Rare" or at least unusual then you have something worth while. IF you Have BOTH then you REALLY have something that hits the mark.
In the end, you have to look at a car from a buyers point of view, its basically Supply & Demand. MOST people want a performance car, at least if your reading this I am going to assume so. Most people would rather have a 350 IROC-Z than a 6 Cyl RS, I am not trying to hurt feelings, its the honest truth and the way things are. Lets look at the facts 1) More people want Performance 2) There are more V6 Camaros than there are 350 Camaros available. Therefore there is a smaller supply and a larger demand for a 350 IROC-Z making them more valuable. In short, if you had two Identical cars sitting next to each other both were the same price, both were the same condition, the only difference is some option, it does not matter what the option is, the car that has the better options should sell first...
Moreover fuel mileage has NOTHING to do with desirability insofar as a collector is concerned as car collectors do not drive the cars every day... If fuel mileage is SUCH a big issue then why are new Cobalts that get 30+ Mpg worth only $15,000 new but a Cadillac that gets 25 Mpg are worth $40,000 new... Fuel milage is NOT a factor, and it really should not be discussed when discussing desirability. My suggestion is not to get hung up on this as even the new Camaros are not going to be significantly more fuel efficient than a 3rd Gen... Our government has made sure of that. In reality a V6 was not greatly better than a 350, I got 26 Mpg highway in my Formula 350 convertible @ 65 -70 Mph
NOW, I created a list a while ago, this is the second version of the same list that some of you may have seen, I did add a few things, but nothing significant, and its a baseline to what I have believe to be cars that are worth collecting. Some models are not included, for example I did not include all of the LB9/M5 cars BECAUSE the information is NOT AVAILABLE. The following is a list of cars that I could easily decipher and quantify into a meaningful list that would shed some light on the question "Is my car RARE and is my car DESIRABLE" If you own a car that is on the list it has better chance to YES for both of those questions. If your car is NOT on the list it does not mean the car is not desirable or rare, it just means that its not on the list because I do not have access to the information.
Some of the numbers overlap, for example there were 26 L69 Trans Am's in 1986, of those 22 were used in the Players Series... I made mention where I remembered.
If you find errors, let me know and I will fix them.
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk Convertible - SLP
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk T-top - SLP
1 (1989) PAS TTA Notchback
1 (1989) PAS TTA Test Car with Hardtop & Leather Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) PAS/ASC TTA Convertible Test car, Cloth Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) ASC/PAS TTA's Convertible, Leather Interior - ASC - TTA Website
1 (1989) VHO Formula - Dealer Modified - Confirmed find
3 (1988) Trans Am 1LE
3 (1989) PAS TTA's Test Cars with T-Top & Cloth Interior ( A fourth was made into a convertible See above) - TTA Website
3 (1988) VHO Formulas - Dealer Modified - Magazine Article
4 (1986) Trans Am L69/M5 (NON Players) - Mark Players Series
4 (1988) Camaro 1LE - White Book
4 (1990) Trans Am 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
4 (1992) Trans Am 1LE (NON R7U) - Mark Players Series
5 (1992) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
6 (1991) SLP Firehawks (Hard Top) - SLP
9 (1991) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
9 (1989) Trans Am/GTA LB9 Convertibles
13 (1986-1991) Tojan Convertibles
14 (1990) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
15 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Cloth Interior - TTA Website
------------------107 cars above this line .0048%--------------
16 (1989) Formula LB9 Convertibles
17 (1992) SLP Firehawk (Hard Top)
17 (1989) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
20 (1988) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1986) Players Trans Am A4Q - Mark Players Series
22 (1987) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1992) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
24 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Leather Interior
26 (1989) Trans Am 1LE
28 (1990) IROC L98/A4 1LE
29 (1992) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTA - gtasourcepage.com
30 (1992) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
32 (1991) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
34 (1990) IROC LB9/M5 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
37 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 Hardtop
39 (1989) PAS Hard Top TTA's - TTA Website
------------------522 cars above this line .0216%--------------
42 (1989) ASC Formula 350 convertibles - Research
46 (1991) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
46 (1991) Base Firebird Convertibles W/M5 Trans - Red Book
53 (1987) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Serie
53 (1991) Trans Am 1LE (does not include R7U)
63 (1986) Players Camaro A4Q - Mark Players Serie
65 (1989) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Serie
71 (1988) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Serie
74 (1986) Camaro L69 (11 were Non Players Cars)
------------------1,035 cars above this line .0436%--------------
78 (1990) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
86 (1992) 1LE Camaros (Non B4C non R7U)
104 (1988) ASC Firebird Convertibles - ASC
104 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/M5
111 (1989) Camaro 1LE
116 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5 (CFI)/A4 - Hardtop
123 (1986-1991) Tojan Hard Tops (includes T-top cars)
141 (1989) ASC L98 Trans Am & L98 GTA Convertibles
144 (1992) (US Sales) L98 GTA's - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
164 (1991) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTAs - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
174 (1987) ASC Pontiac Firebirds - ASC
187 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Cloth Interior - TTA Club
190 (1992) (US Sales) Trans Am W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
195 (1991) Camaro 1LE/L98 (includes B4C cars)
205 (1985) Camaro IROC LB9/A4/G92
263 (1987) Camaro RS, SC & LT Convertibles - White Book
283 (1991) Camaro 1LE/LB9/M5 (includes B4C cars)
295 (1990) Camaro IROC LB9/M5/G92
366 (1989) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
403 (1992) (US sales) Formula 350's - compnine.com???
451 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/A4
------------------5,103 cars above this line .230%--------------
483 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 - T-tops
502 (1985) 1C5 "California IROC" - TGO
571 (1992) Z03 Heritage Camaro Z28/L98 (all had G92) (571 not complete number)
589 (1992) Camaro B4C all with 1LE
592 (1991) Camaro B4C (note not all B4C cars were 1LE cars in 1991, 1LE equipped B4C cars will have more value)
595 (1990) (US Sales) GTA W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
607 (1992) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
662 (1983) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
718 (1988) GTA Notchbacks L98/A4, LB9/A4 & LB9/M5
729 (1990) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------10,580 cars above this line .455%--------------
733 (1991) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
744 (1987) IROC-Z Convertibles
777 (1992) Trans Am Convertible A4 & M5 - PHS
809 (1988) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
904 (1991) Base Firebird Vert W/A4 Trans
------------------------------------
1,254 (1992) Z28 Convertibles LB9 A4 & M5
1,265 (1992) Firebird Convertibles
1,294 (1990) IROC-Z Convertibles
1,321 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Leather Interior
1,321 (1991) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
1,321 (1984) Trans Am Recaro (Y84) L69
1,665 (1985) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
1,500 (1984) Trans Am 15th Anniversary
1,864 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5(CFI)/A4 - T-tops
1,859 (1988) SC or RS Camaro Convertibles
1,900 (1990) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
------------------------------------
2,384 (1987) Formula 350's
2,497 (1985) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
2,415 (1990) IROC-Z Hard Top L98
2,562 (1992) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------------------------
3,038 (1992) Z28 Hard Top L98
3,203 (1991) Z28 Convertible LB9 A4 & M5
3,223 (1983) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
3,245 (1989) RS Camaro Convertibles
3,280 (1987) LB9/M5 GTA's
3,761 (1988) IROC-Z Convertibles
3,940 (1989) IROC-Z Convertibles
------------------------------------
5,329 (1991) RS Camaro Convertibles
6,080 (1991) Z28 Hard Top L98
6,360 (1982) Camaro Z28/Z50 INDY Edition
6,554 (1989) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
6,606+ (1992) Camaro Z03
6,913 (1988) (US Sales) Hard Top GTA W/L98
7,051 (1984) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O. W/M5
7,818 (1987) (US Sales) Hard Top Trans Am & GTA L98
9,206 (1983) Trans Am LU5 (includes some of the Daytona Trans Am's above)
--------------------------------
10,793 (1988) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
12,105 (1987) IROC-Z L98
12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98
12,370 (1989) IROC-Z L98
13,037 (1982) Trans Am LU5
13,041 (1989) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
16,869 (1985) Trans Am LB9
18,037 (1984) Trans Am L69/A4 (includes some of the Anniversary & Recaro T/A's above)
19,847 (1983) Camaro Z28 LU5
--------------------------------
21,176 (1986) Trans Am LB9
24,673 (1982) Camaro Z28 LU5
32,836 (1985) Camaro Z28 LB9
46,374 (1986) Camaro Z28 LB9
52,457 (1984) Camaro Z28 L69 (Auto & Manual)
To bring this all into perspective there were 1,517,623 Camaro's and 817,444 Firebirds made between 1982 & 1992. OR if you add them together 2,334,067 3rd Gen F-bodies...
Changes Log:
10-29-08 - Corrected Trans Am Convertible figures for 1991 & 1992
1-19-09 - Added 1C5 "California IROC" to list. 502 number has not been verified.
1-28-09 - Updated 1990 IROC 1LE production, broke out 28 from 62 total
2-17-09 - Changed 1989 Trans Am/L98 Vert figure to 141
2-18-09 - Corrected LU5 Camaros
10-9-09 - Added Knudsen Tojan production... for kicks.
11-24-09 - updated 1991 Camaro 1LE figures from the 1LE Registry, 195 1LE/L98's and 283 1LE/LB9/MM5
1-22-10 - Added 1984 Recaro Production figures
1-24-11 - Added 3 - 1988 VHO Formulas and 1 - 1989 VHO Formula
4-21-11 - Added some sources really quick as a reference
John
Two cars, Both were made in 1989, one is "Rare" the other is more common. The first car is a Camaro with an AM radio, there was only 49 of them with the option in 1989. The second "More common" car is the Turbo Trans Am (TTA) they made 1555 of them. If we think of "Rare" as being valuable and the more rare something is makes it more valuable ultimately we are very mistaken... The 1989 TTA is worth WAY more than the Camaro with the AM radio, There should NOT be an argument about it, THIS is the way things are. To assume otherwise is futile and a waste of bandwidth IMHO.
This leads us into what determines a car to be "DESIRABLE"... HISTORY tells us that there are a few factors that determines desirability. For the most part PERFORMANCE plays a huge role in determining desirability. Very few cars, that do not perform have significant value in today's marketplace, I cannot think of many except for a Silver Ghost Rolls Royce. The second thing that makes a car desirable is Style or appearance. Convertibles are always more valuable than equally equipped hard tops, I do not know of a single exception to this rule. So a Z28 Convertible with a LB9/M5 will be worth MORE than a Z28 Hard top with an LB9/M5 with similar options and the same condition, EVERY TIME. Take ONE of the above factors, such as "Performance" or "Style" and THEN combine it with "Rare" or at least unusual then you have something worth while. IF you Have BOTH then you REALLY have something that hits the mark.
In the end, you have to look at a car from a buyers point of view, its basically Supply & Demand. MOST people want a performance car, at least if your reading this I am going to assume so. Most people would rather have a 350 IROC-Z than a 6 Cyl RS, I am not trying to hurt feelings, its the honest truth and the way things are. Lets look at the facts 1) More people want Performance 2) There are more V6 Camaros than there are 350 Camaros available. Therefore there is a smaller supply and a larger demand for a 350 IROC-Z making them more valuable. In short, if you had two Identical cars sitting next to each other both were the same price, both were the same condition, the only difference is some option, it does not matter what the option is, the car that has the better options should sell first...
Moreover fuel mileage has NOTHING to do with desirability insofar as a collector is concerned as car collectors do not drive the cars every day... If fuel mileage is SUCH a big issue then why are new Cobalts that get 30+ Mpg worth only $15,000 new but a Cadillac that gets 25 Mpg are worth $40,000 new... Fuel milage is NOT a factor, and it really should not be discussed when discussing desirability. My suggestion is not to get hung up on this as even the new Camaros are not going to be significantly more fuel efficient than a 3rd Gen... Our government has made sure of that. In reality a V6 was not greatly better than a 350, I got 26 Mpg highway in my Formula 350 convertible @ 65 -70 Mph
NOW, I created a list a while ago, this is the second version of the same list that some of you may have seen, I did add a few things, but nothing significant, and its a baseline to what I have believe to be cars that are worth collecting. Some models are not included, for example I did not include all of the LB9/M5 cars BECAUSE the information is NOT AVAILABLE. The following is a list of cars that I could easily decipher and quantify into a meaningful list that would shed some light on the question "Is my car RARE and is my car DESIRABLE" If you own a car that is on the list it has better chance to YES for both of those questions. If your car is NOT on the list it does not mean the car is not desirable or rare, it just means that its not on the list because I do not have access to the information.
Some of the numbers overlap, for example there were 26 L69 Trans Am's in 1986, of those 22 were used in the Players Series... I made mention where I remembered.
If you find errors, let me know and I will fix them.
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk Convertible - SLP
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk T-top - SLP
1 (1989) PAS TTA Notchback
1 (1989) PAS TTA Test Car with Hardtop & Leather Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) PAS/ASC TTA Convertible Test car, Cloth Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) ASC/PAS TTA's Convertible, Leather Interior - ASC - TTA Website
1 (1989) VHO Formula - Dealer Modified - Confirmed find
3 (1988) Trans Am 1LE
3 (1989) PAS TTA's Test Cars with T-Top & Cloth Interior ( A fourth was made into a convertible See above) - TTA Website
3 (1988) VHO Formulas - Dealer Modified - Magazine Article
4 (1986) Trans Am L69/M5 (NON Players) - Mark Players Series
4 (1988) Camaro 1LE - White Book
4 (1990) Trans Am 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
4 (1992) Trans Am 1LE (NON R7U) - Mark Players Series
5 (1992) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
6 (1991) SLP Firehawks (Hard Top) - SLP
9 (1991) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
9 (1989) Trans Am/GTA LB9 Convertibles
13 (1986-1991) Tojan Convertibles
14 (1990) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
15 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Cloth Interior - TTA Website
------------------107 cars above this line .0048%--------------
16 (1989) Formula LB9 Convertibles
17 (1992) SLP Firehawk (Hard Top)
17 (1989) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
20 (1988) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1986) Players Trans Am A4Q - Mark Players Series
22 (1987) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1992) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
24 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Leather Interior
26 (1989) Trans Am 1LE
28 (1990) IROC L98/A4 1LE
29 (1992) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTA - gtasourcepage.com
30 (1992) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
32 (1991) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
34 (1990) IROC LB9/M5 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
37 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 Hardtop
39 (1989) PAS Hard Top TTA's - TTA Website
------------------522 cars above this line .0216%--------------
42 (1989) ASC Formula 350 convertibles - Research
46 (1991) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
46 (1991) Base Firebird Convertibles W/M5 Trans - Red Book
53 (1987) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Serie
53 (1991) Trans Am 1LE (does not include R7U)
63 (1986) Players Camaro A4Q - Mark Players Serie
65 (1989) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Serie
71 (1988) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Serie
74 (1986) Camaro L69 (11 were Non Players Cars)
------------------1,035 cars above this line .0436%--------------
78 (1990) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
86 (1992) 1LE Camaros (Non B4C non R7U)
104 (1988) ASC Firebird Convertibles - ASC
104 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/M5
111 (1989) Camaro 1LE
116 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5 (CFI)/A4 - Hardtop
123 (1986-1991) Tojan Hard Tops (includes T-top cars)
141 (1989) ASC L98 Trans Am & L98 GTA Convertibles
144 (1992) (US Sales) L98 GTA's - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
164 (1991) (US Sales) LB9/M5 GTAs - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
174 (1987) ASC Pontiac Firebirds - ASC
187 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Cloth Interior - TTA Club
190 (1992) (US Sales) Trans Am W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
195 (1991) Camaro 1LE/L98 (includes B4C cars)
205 (1985) Camaro IROC LB9/A4/G92
263 (1987) Camaro RS, SC & LT Convertibles - White Book
283 (1991) Camaro 1LE/LB9/M5 (includes B4C cars)
295 (1990) Camaro IROC LB9/M5/G92
366 (1989) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
403 (1992) (US sales) Formula 350's - compnine.com???
451 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/A4
------------------5,103 cars above this line .230%--------------
483 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 - T-tops
502 (1985) 1C5 "California IROC" - TGO
571 (1992) Z03 Heritage Camaro Z28/L98 (all had G92) (571 not complete number)
589 (1992) Camaro B4C all with 1LE
592 (1991) Camaro B4C (note not all B4C cars were 1LE cars in 1991, 1LE equipped B4C cars will have more value)
595 (1990) (US Sales) GTA W/L98 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
607 (1992) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
662 (1983) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
718 (1988) GTA Notchbacks L98/A4, LB9/A4 & LB9/M5
729 (1990) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------10,580 cars above this line .455%--------------
733 (1991) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
744 (1987) IROC-Z Convertibles
777 (1992) Trans Am Convertible A4 & M5 - PHS
809 (1988) (US Sales) GTA LB9/M5 - gtasourcepage.com (PHS)
904 (1991) Base Firebird Vert W/A4 Trans
------------------------------------
1,254 (1992) Z28 Convertibles LB9 A4 & M5
1,265 (1992) Firebird Convertibles
1,294 (1990) IROC-Z Convertibles
1,321 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Leather Interior
1,321 (1991) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
1,321 (1984) Trans Am Recaro (Y84) L69
1,665 (1985) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
1,500 (1984) Trans Am 15th Anniversary
1,864 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5(CFI)/A4 - T-tops
1,859 (1988) SC or RS Camaro Convertibles
1,900 (1990) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
------------------------------------
2,384 (1987) Formula 350's
2,497 (1985) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
2,415 (1990) IROC-Z Hard Top L98
2,562 (1992) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------------------------
3,038 (1992) Z28 Hard Top L98
3,203 (1991) Z28 Convertible LB9 A4 & M5
3,223 (1983) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
3,245 (1989) RS Camaro Convertibles
3,280 (1987) LB9/M5 GTA's
3,761 (1988) IROC-Z Convertibles
3,940 (1989) IROC-Z Convertibles
------------------------------------
5,329 (1991) RS Camaro Convertibles
6,080 (1991) Z28 Hard Top L98
6,360 (1982) Camaro Z28/Z50 INDY Edition
6,554 (1989) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
6,606+ (1992) Camaro Z03
6,913 (1988) (US Sales) Hard Top GTA W/L98
7,051 (1984) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O. W/M5
7,818 (1987) (US Sales) Hard Top Trans Am & GTA L98
9,206 (1983) Trans Am LU5 (includes some of the Daytona Trans Am's above)
--------------------------------
10,793 (1988) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
12,105 (1987) IROC-Z L98
12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98
12,370 (1989) IROC-Z L98
13,037 (1982) Trans Am LU5
13,041 (1989) Formula, GTA & Trans Am W/L98
16,869 (1985) Trans Am LB9
18,037 (1984) Trans Am L69/A4 (includes some of the Anniversary & Recaro T/A's above)
19,847 (1983) Camaro Z28 LU5
--------------------------------
21,176 (1986) Trans Am LB9
24,673 (1982) Camaro Z28 LU5
32,836 (1985) Camaro Z28 LB9
46,374 (1986) Camaro Z28 LB9
52,457 (1984) Camaro Z28 L69 (Auto & Manual)
To bring this all into perspective there were 1,517,623 Camaro's and 817,444 Firebirds made between 1982 & 1992. OR if you add them together 2,334,067 3rd Gen F-bodies...
Changes Log:
10-29-08 - Corrected Trans Am Convertible figures for 1991 & 1992
1-19-09 - Added 1C5 "California IROC" to list. 502 number has not been verified.
1-28-09 - Updated 1990 IROC 1LE production, broke out 28 from 62 total
2-17-09 - Changed 1989 Trans Am/L98 Vert figure to 141
2-18-09 - Corrected LU5 Camaros
10-9-09 - Added Knudsen Tojan production... for kicks.
11-24-09 - updated 1991 Camaro 1LE figures from the 1LE Registry, 195 1LE/L98's and 283 1LE/LB9/MM5
1-22-10 - Added 1984 Recaro Production figures
1-24-11 - Added 3 - 1988 VHO Formulas and 1 - 1989 VHO Formula
4-21-11 - Added some sources really quick as a reference
John
The only car I know of that the Coupe is worth equal or more than the Convertible is the '63 Corvette split window. I know we are on the 3rd gen f-body forum but just an FYI
10-14-2011, 08:53 AM
#296
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
You have to remember that year for year the Convertible outsold the coupe for the corvette from 1963-1967. Matter of fact from 1953 thru 1962 there was no coupe, so the idea of the coupe was new to buyers. IMHO the 63-67 fastback was not that attractive, it was a neat concept, and I am not saying I would not own one, but ultimately there was 62% less coupes made than convertibles for the entire generation from 1963-1967 for a reason. (72,409 vs 45,546) Ultimately I believe the desirability of these cars is based on rarity more than anything.
Note: There was only 10,594 Split Window coupes made in 1963, several of those were converted to the single rear back window of the 1964 as there was a dislike of the divider by owners.
Stepping into 1968, that year produced a virtually equal number of coupes and convertibles, by the time 1975 came around there was only 4629 convertibles for the year and in 1976 there was none, a complete 180° in 14 years. But again, the later 3rd generation Corvette, either by performance standards or ascetics (not a fan at all), I would really personally prefer the Convertible over any year coupe for the generation...
You could relate it to the 91-92 Firehawk. Because we have a single convertible Firehawk and 24 coupes we can clearly see that indeed the convertible is worth more. Now if we had 24 Convertible firehawks and only one coupe, then ultimately we would conclude that the coupe would have more desirability.
Thanks for making me think
John
10-14-2011, 10:55 AM
#297
Supreme Member
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
When giving perspective to this, yes you are correct, it is one of the few examples of where a hard top has more valuable than a Convertible...
You have to remember that year for year the Convertible outsold the coupe for the corvette from 1963-1967. Matter of fact from 1953 thru 1962 there was no coupe, so the idea of the coupe was new to buyers. IMHO the 63-67 fastback was not that attractive, it was a neat concept, and I am not saying I would not own one, but ultimately there was 62% less coupes made than convertibles for the entire generation from 1963-1967 for a reason. (72,409 vs 45,546) Ultimately I believe the desirability of these cars is based on rarity more than anything.
Note: There was only 10,594 Split Window coupes made in 1963, several of those were converted to the single rear back window of the 1964 as there was a dislike of the divider by owners.
Stepping into 1968, that year produced a virtually equal number of coupes and convertibles, by the time 1975 came around there was only 4629 convertibles for the year and in 1976 there was none, a complete 180° in 14 years. But again, the later 3rd generation Corvette, either by performance standards or ascetics (not a fan at all), I would really personally prefer the Convertible over any year coupe for the generation...
You could relate it to the 91-92 Firehawk. Because we have a single convertible Firehawk and 24 coupes we can clearly see that indeed the convertible is worth more. Now if we had 24 Convertible firehawks and only one coupe, then ultimately we would conclude that the coupe would have more desirability.
Thanks for making me think
John
You have to remember that year for year the Convertible outsold the coupe for the corvette from 1963-1967. Matter of fact from 1953 thru 1962 there was no coupe, so the idea of the coupe was new to buyers. IMHO the 63-67 fastback was not that attractive, it was a neat concept, and I am not saying I would not own one, but ultimately there was 62% less coupes made than convertibles for the entire generation from 1963-1967 for a reason. (72,409 vs 45,546) Ultimately I believe the desirability of these cars is based on rarity more than anything.
Note: There was only 10,594 Split Window coupes made in 1963, several of those were converted to the single rear back window of the 1964 as there was a dislike of the divider by owners.
Stepping into 1968, that year produced a virtually equal number of coupes and convertibles, by the time 1975 came around there was only 4629 convertibles for the year and in 1976 there was none, a complete 180° in 14 years. But again, the later 3rd generation Corvette, either by performance standards or ascetics (not a fan at all), I would really personally prefer the Convertible over any year coupe for the generation...
You could relate it to the 91-92 Firehawk. Because we have a single convertible Firehawk and 24 coupes we can clearly see that indeed the convertible is worth more. Now if we had 24 Convertible firehawks and only one coupe, then ultimately we would conclude that the coupe would have more desirability.
Thanks for making me think
John
Yah.. when I sold my 86 TA in 87 I had almost talked my father into buying me a 66 Corvette convert w 327/side pipes and a 4 speed. so close. it was only being offered for 14000 and I coulda bought it for 12 I think... sigh.. it was maroon with black interior nice...
Bought a 1957 Chevy instead with 70K original documented miles. Car is long gone now...
10-14-2011, 01:31 PM
#298
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Car: '97 TA WS6 vert & '88 Formula 350
Engine: LT1 & 383 HSR
Transmission: T-56 & T-56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 & 3.27
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
When giving perspective to this, yes you are correct, it is one of the few examples of where a hard top has more valuable than a Convertible...
You have to remember that year for year the Convertible outsold the coupe for the corvette from 1963-1967. Matter of fact from 1953 thru 1962 there was no coupe, so the idea of the coupe was new to buyers. IMHO the 63-67 fastback was not that attractive, it was a neat concept, and I am not saying I would not own one, but ultimately there was 62% less coupes made than convertibles for the entire generation from 1963-1967 for a reason. (72,409 vs 45,546) Ultimately I believe the desirability of these cars is based on rarity more than anything.
Note: There was only 10,594 Split Window coupes made in 1963, several of those were converted to the single rear back window of the 1964 as there was a dislike of the divider by owners.
Stepping into 1968, that year produced a virtually equal number of coupes and convertibles, by the time 1975 came around there was only 4629 convertibles for the year and in 1976 there was none, a complete 180° in 14 years. But again, the later 3rd generation Corvette, either by performance standards or ascetics (not a fan at all), I would really personally prefer the Convertible over any year coupe for the generation...
You could relate it to the 91-92 Firehawk. Because we have a single convertible Firehawk and 24 coupes we can clearly see that indeed the convertible is worth more. Now if we had 24 Convertible firehawks and only one coupe, then ultimately we would conclude that the coupe would have more desirability.
Thanks for making me think
John
You have to remember that year for year the Convertible outsold the coupe for the corvette from 1963-1967. Matter of fact from 1953 thru 1962 there was no coupe, so the idea of the coupe was new to buyers. IMHO the 63-67 fastback was not that attractive, it was a neat concept, and I am not saying I would not own one, but ultimately there was 62% less coupes made than convertibles for the entire generation from 1963-1967 for a reason. (72,409 vs 45,546) Ultimately I believe the desirability of these cars is based on rarity more than anything.
Note: There was only 10,594 Split Window coupes made in 1963, several of those were converted to the single rear back window of the 1964 as there was a dislike of the divider by owners.
Stepping into 1968, that year produced a virtually equal number of coupes and convertibles, by the time 1975 came around there was only 4629 convertibles for the year and in 1976 there was none, a complete 180° in 14 years. But again, the later 3rd generation Corvette, either by performance standards or ascetics (not a fan at all), I would really personally prefer the Convertible over any year coupe for the generation...
You could relate it to the 91-92 Firehawk. Because we have a single convertible Firehawk and 24 coupes we can clearly see that indeed the convertible is worth more. Now if we had 24 Convertible firehawks and only one coupe, then ultimately we would conclude that the coupe would have more desirability.
Thanks for making me think
John
There were a lot of 65-66 verts that were in the shop. A couple '65 verts I liked were a Hunter green fuel injected 4 spd and a Nassau blue 396 4 spd, both pretty hard to find.
I am anxious to see how my '97 WS6 TA 6 spd does in the future. If my memory serves right in '97 there were only 264 WS6 TA Verts, 132 with a 6spd, 56 Black. '97 was the only year of the LT1 cars to have the WS6 vert. I was going to drop an LS series into it but being a low production car I figured it would be better to stay stock.
My '97 isn't real popular, people don't like the vert. I have had more attention over the years with my 3rd gen hardtops. I had a '88 Formula, '88 V-6 5 spd, '89 TA 5 spd, and I now have a '92 TA.
Thanks for all the good info!
10-30-2011, 06:26 PM
#299
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Car: '09 Pontiac G8 GT - 12.76@109
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
"The data on the Mig is inaccurate." -Top Gun.
Sorry for the classic movie reference but I wanted to provide an update to the data you have for the Carroll Supercharged VHO Formula 350's.
After a year of discussions and research, my son and I bought the 2nd surviving VHO. A complete post will be made later with complete description and pix. This is very exciting for both of us.
During my research and in speaking to Greg Carroll who made the VHO's, I was able to confirm the following once he searched his "memory."
Here is what he built for the VHO:
1987 VHO - Silver Metallic Prototype. Taken apart, dismantled, and gone.
1988 VHO - Red w/Grey. This is the awesome car you've seen in the Magazines.
1988 VHO - White. This car was totalled a few weeks after being purchased.
1989 VHO - Black w/two-tone delete so it was all Black.
The 1989 has 30,418 original, one-owner miles. 30,000 miles were put on the car in the first 10 years of ownership. Last registration was 1999. 4xx miles put on the car in the last 12-13 years.
I will be spending additional humble time with Mr. Carroll soon to learn more about the workings of this car (he is not far from me) but I assure you, the information is true. All documentation exists.
You may want to correct/update post 1.
Thanks and enjoy!
Sorry for the classic movie reference but I wanted to provide an update to the data you have for the Carroll Supercharged VHO Formula 350's.
After a year of discussions and research, my son and I bought the 2nd surviving VHO. A complete post will be made later with complete description and pix. This is very exciting for both of us.
During my research and in speaking to Greg Carroll who made the VHO's, I was able to confirm the following once he searched his "memory."
Here is what he built for the VHO:
1987 VHO - Silver Metallic Prototype. Taken apart, dismantled, and gone.
1988 VHO - Red w/Grey. This is the awesome car you've seen in the Magazines.
1988 VHO - White. This car was totalled a few weeks after being purchased.
1989 VHO - Black w/two-tone delete so it was all Black.
The 1989 has 30,418 original, one-owner miles. 30,000 miles were put on the car in the first 10 years of ownership. Last registration was 1999. 4xx miles put on the car in the last 12-13 years.
I will be spending additional humble time with Mr. Carroll soon to learn more about the workings of this car (he is not far from me) but I assure you, the information is true. All documentation exists.
You may want to correct/update post 1.
Thanks and enjoy!
10-31-2011, 10:31 AM
#300
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Posts: 14,235
Received 163 Likes
on
118 Posts
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"
Tell us what you learn, it will be interesting. Like my original post states, there was 1 in 1989, and 3 in 1988, the 3 in 1988 came from a magazine article... The Silver one would have been a 1987 only thing as I think that was the only year to have a Silver option on the Formula. They are quite rare on their own.
Thanks for the heads up, I will be interested in learning what you find out.
Honestly it is almost a moot point as there are only 2 remaining, no one is going to find the 1987, nor the totaled 1988, Therefore the 1 1987 being called a 1988 would not change the fact that there is 1 1988 and 1 1989 remaining... I will be more than willing to change it if you can get me some hard information...
Does that make sense?
John
Thanks for the heads up, I will be interested in learning what you find out.
Honestly it is almost a moot point as there are only 2 remaining, no one is going to find the 1987, nor the totaled 1988, Therefore the 1 1987 being called a 1988 would not change the fact that there is 1 1988 and 1 1989 remaining... I will be more than willing to change it if you can get me some hard information...
Does that make sense?
John
Last edited by okfoz; 10-31-2011 at 10:35 AM.