Speed Racer X

Yes, I completely understand.

The only hard evidence I have is speaking to the "creator" Greg Carroll who told me:

1 '87 prototype. Carroll parts were removed & car is gone.
2 '88s - 1 was totalled, other is the Red magazine one (I've spoken to that owner too).
1 '89 - the one I just picked up.

For now, the only update to your post I would make is to reduce the # of '88's to 2 because there were never 3 (according to Greg).

I will be meeting with Greg soon, I hope; I will try to have him document this in writing.

It appears the HPP magazine article and the book that was written are just slightly off. But then again, in the absence of better info, it was as accurate as we had.

IMissMy86TA

Can you ask him a question for me?
Would he consider doing one more? I know it wouldnt be from factory but it would have his name (kinda like how Carroll Shelby remade some new cobras that are basically kit cars with his name) and we dont have to worry about factory warrenty anymore!
The only diff is mine is a stock 305 TPI 5 speed GTA with 220HP...
Just a thought!

RockSprings85

So... i am very curious about my 85 trans am. i am planning some mods, but before i start i am wondering what the "Schoelfield Bros" tag in the door jamb is all about. it is an aluminum tag that has number 1400 top right corner. It has also been signed by a tech. Is my car some sort of "Schoelfield Bros. Edition", and if so, what makes it different from any other '85 305 tpi T/A? Just curious...

okfoz

RocksSprings85,
I am not sure what it would be, The best thing to do is post some pictures and what information you have in the History Forum and let some others look at it.

I am 99.9% sure that it was not a factory option, it may be a conversion of some sort... Maybe a dealer package, or just some joker with some extra decals...

JOhn

WolfmanTA

Hi There! Could you tell me how many 86 Trans Ams with the LB9 wotor had T Tops or How many 86 Trans Ams came with T Tops? I have a 86 Trans Am with the LB9 and T Tops just wanted to know.Thanks..

scottmoyer

Nope. It's been mentioned many times that option combinations were not kept count of. Each individual option was counted though.

okfoz

Using the rules of averages, about Half of the 1986 Firebirds got T-tops. According to Dealer information there was 110,463 Firebirds in 1986, and 55,121 had T-tops, and PHS states a total of 21,176 Firebirds got the LB9 (only available on T/A) in 1986.

From the rules of averages, I would think about 10,000 or 11,000 Trans Ams with the LB9 had T-tops, its merely a guess tho...

Interestingly it is pretty accurate for any given year that about Half of the cars got T-tops. Of course in some instances T-tops were not available on some models, the 1987-1988 GTA, Formula or Trans Am with the L98 T-tops were NA due to fuel mileage requirements. In 1989, about half of the L98 Firebirds got T-tops, and about half of the 91-92 Formula 350's Got T-tops.

Its not a hard and fast rule, but it tends to be the case...

John

Alex Waller

hey everyone i recently well a few months ago bought a 1984 trans am my question is this its white and gold has the gold rims but it doesnt have t-tops im wondering how many were made in 84 without t-tops thanks

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Please read

kthelen

Is there any further breakdown to be had for this figure? Or, failing that, any speculation?


I actually happened upon one of these last spring in the Minneapolis area. The condition was, in a word, dismal. There was more rust than car, and the owner had left it parked outdoors with the top down for some months. But yet he refused to let it go to anyone who wasn't committed to doing a top-flight resto on it. Wonder if it got rescued, or if it's filling with snow as we speak...?


--Keith

okfoz

The only other thing you can do is go to the gtasourcepage.com and there he has some production info on the GTA only... Unfortunately I think it is for US sales only maybe... possibly Canada too. If you did some subtraction of the GTA from the total you will get closer with the Formula and TA... I do know that there was not many T/A's with the 350, only a handful, as most people went with the GTA or Formula when opting for the 350.

It was White...

The owner was Bill Speed, it ended up going to a mechanic, then the mechanic junked it for owed money, then some one purchased it and took it to IL?? (I think)

Last I heard the new owner is planning on doing a resto on it...

Being a 1 of 42, right now interestingly it is not worth as much as it potentially can be. Eventually it should garner momentum in value.

John

kthelen

That would be the one. His name was Bill something-or-other, that much I do recall.

Yeah, we had a long discussion about that (him arguing for "rare equals valuable", me arguing for "it hasn't come into its prime, and condition can kill"). But when I actually saw the condition, all bets were off.



I felt bad walking away, but there just wasn't anything there for me. Good to hear that it didn't get crushed, at least... hopefully it gets the resto that such a rare 'bird deserves.

theJoker

Dumb question from a new guy, but how do I tell which options are on my 89 IROC? Is it labeled somewhere if the car has the G92 or 1LE option?

87 player bird

Spid sheet. If not , take the vin # to a dealer and have them print out the option list codes.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

I didn't see 1982 Trans Am 305 4 barrel with borg warner 4 speed!
It was the last year you could get a 4 speed manual and i don't
think many were made. I would appreciate any info.

okfoz

There was...
'82
23,185 Camaros
20,964 Firebirds

'83
3,861 Camaros (I4 only)
0 Firebirds

84
5232 Camaros (I4 Only)
1925 Firebird (I4 Only)

85
5401 Camaros (I4 Only)
0 FIrebirds

No further breakdown available.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

K. E. Christy

OKfoz,
Do you have the breakdown off the earlier edition of the 1991 that was produced before the model year came out. Did they incorporated that production number into all 1991 models? I ordered mine early in January 1990 (site unseen because of no literature or brochures was even available) after not being able to get a 1990 IROC (lost franchise) and took delivery in July 1990 (only was available at that time in black, red or white).
Thxs

okfoz

1991 is a goofy year. There are 2 sets of numbers running around, The larger of the 2 incorporates the 1991 Model Year from Jan 1990 thru Sept (or there abouts) of 1991... The second set like from Dealer info is sometimes from Sept 1990 - sept 1991.

Interestingly 1991 is one of the few years where they made mid-year changes.. The best example is the elimination of the plastic interior pieces in the back of the vert when they went to a lighter cardboard covered in cloth. Early 1991's had it, later ones did not. All Firebird Verts for 1991 had the later style.

K. E. Christy

Excuse my stupidly. but is vert short for?

Interestingly 1991 is one of the few years where they made mid-year changes.. The best example is the elimination of the plastic interior pieces in the back of the vert

IMissMy86TA

conVERTable

okfoz

Sorry... I get lazy sometimes (yes I admit it) and I shorten some things... Vert is common for Convertible... Less common things are things like MY = Model Year. FY=Fiscal Year...

John

action bastard

awesome post. Now I got to check my tag agian I think I got two of them codes.

K. E. Christy

One thing that sets it apart was the early editions were only was available in black, red or white).
Thxs

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

Great post! I just read through it. I apologize if I missed it but I wonder if:
can be broken down by transmission?
TIA

okfoz

The information is not available... If you found reliable information based upon the gear ratio's you might be able to get a little closer. Here is an example, I am not sure how well it would pertain to the 1984 cars, but it might help, not sure what the axle ratios were... But I do know something about 1987 and Firebirds particularly.

An example of using deductive reasoning.
We know some things about Firebirds and some years with engine combinations, For example, in 1987 the L98 should have only been paired with the 3.27 axle, Likewise the LB9/M5 should have only got the 3.45 axle... therefore if we knew the number of LB9 cars and we knew the number of cars that got the 3.45 axle, we could get a really good estimate of how many were made... (Note) There was an issue of exported cars that did not meet the normal standards for production, but those cars are uncommon as 95% of the F-bodies made were sold in the US.

does that make sense??? Find production numbers of the axle ratios' and we should be able to narrow it down some.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Forgive me if I overlooked something, but...

I didn't see anything on the list for '89 LB9 Formula's, only L98. Is there any specific reason for this?

okfoz

6,478 according to PHS,
Of those 366 were LB9 GTA's
All others were Trans Am's or Formulas, no further breakdown available...

John

jhainer

I just checked mine here is what it said

There are 1 1991 CAMARO RS 2 DR vehicles (0.001%) matching your exact options list. There are 3 (0.003%) with at least as many options.

Woo hoo there is nothing special about my z28. its a 305tpi auto 4 speed. like i said nothing special. other than i bought it for $500 and it runs and drives but does need a new colum nothing to get to excited about

okfoz

Where did you get that?

IMissMy86TA

I believe he is joking....

jhainer

http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=...12223&x=33&y=4 Iroc nothing found

http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=...56345&x=30&y=1 91 z28

IMissMy86TA

or not...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Wow, now that's a project. Hope it finds a good home.

bad78ta

Hi guy's i just found a 1984 Z28 in a barn 50k miles 5.0 H.O 5 speed but whats weird is how its optioned factory a/c delete no power windows radio delete no t-tops this would have to be a low production option wise car right? has anyone seen one like this before?

okfoz

The info is just not out there... Find the rarest option or lack thereof and you will be closer... I would bet somewhere in the 200 range.

John

IMissMy86TA

I am very knowledgeable about collector cars and to give an example, radio and a/c delete cars are worth much more. in muscle cars (close to ours but not quite) they are considered dedicated to power and desirable and rare. With no AC it will have less drain on engine if it uses a separate belt (not sure when one belt started) and even if 1 belt it gives more resistance. I would ****** that up and restore it!

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

Congrats on the find. I can't find anything close to that around here that is solid. Post some pics.

bad78ta

I will post some pics soon as i get up there to get it out. My wife is the owner her grand father was the owner he died last year an we are just now going thru the property it was parked in the back of the barn covered up with tarps its going to need all new hoses carb rebuilt before i can see if it will run. It has been a long long time it looks like since it has been on the road......

mcchevy427@att.

Do you knowhow many 350 TBI 5.7 Formula's were built in 1988? I found a survivor with 50,000 miles that I want, but don't have any idea as to what itis worth. I has not ran in 6 yrs. This car looks like the day it was born. No rust dings and has original everything even a nitrous system. Not really sure how it will run after I do the fuel purge, and the rest of the system refreshing. Any other ideas will be considered.

02 camaro

Black on Red 1992 Z28 Heritage 350 A4 All options including Disk Rear and T-tops, just curius if its anything special.

LeonardS

If it is a Factory 350, T-top car, I want to buy it. But since they didn't build any of these, I doubt that it is. Check the 8th digit of the VIN to know for sure.

Leonard

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Probably a 305, but if its a 92 Z28, they only made around 5,000 of them that year. They'll get really hard to find in 10 years.

okfoz

There is absolutely no record of a T-top 350 GTA, Trans Am, IROC or Z28 from 1990 - 1992, and none were made. Only the Formula got CC1 & L98 those years.

In 1989, all of them were available with the combination (Of course there was no Z28, only IROC in 1989)

John

smiling wolf

hi im new to this site and this post seems like a good place to start i have an 85 iroc-z 305 H.O. 5 speed with t-tops all origonal im intending on cleaning her up this summer and wonder how many of these are there around i saw the origonal amount of 85s 2,177 but how many were the 5-speed t tops any info would be cool thanks

chazman

iTrader: (4)

What color?

smiling wolf

black with gold trim carberated L69

okfoz

1) All L69's had the 5 speed except for 1984.
2) with or without T-tops the information is not out there.
3) I am not sure why someone asked you for the color, as that is meaningless, as that information to figure how many were made... is not out there.

smiling wolf

With t-tops

okfoz

My point was that the only information that you can garner with what is currently available is the L69/M5 combination, as all of the L69's in 1985 should have been a Manual Trans.

Singling out how many T-tops with an L69/M5 car is Not available... Typically about 40% of the cars made for any given year had T-tops... Firebirds had a higher ratio, and later years the ratio trended higher than the earlier years.

IF by chance the car was shipped to Canada by the factory when new, you might find some information on compnine.com, by typing in your VIN, you should get what was exported... Beyond that you will not find much at this time.

Of the 180,018 Camaros made in 1985, 63,546 had T-tops, (White book states 63,543)

White Book States 2497 Camaro's with the L69