T10/muncie swaps are quite easy to do on these cars despite what people say I am in the process of doing on my self right if you purchase the lakewood safty bell hosuing it has bolt holes for a 17 degree angle and strait up and will allow you to use you stock pedals and hydraulics and pivot arm for the throw out bearing all you have to do is install the transmission strait up the transmssion mount is farther forward than the t5 one so you will either have to fabricate or buy a swap one spohn sells them if you are using a t10 it a muncie that is not out of a 82 camaro it will not have a torque arm mount but spohn also sells a swap cross member that has a cross member mounted adjustible torque arm stock drive shaft length should be the same but on the t10 you will have to switch the turbo 400 dive shaft yoke I will be fabricating up my own cross member and torque arm mount so ill try and get some pics up here of the hole set up also muncies use less teeth on there input shaft so your t5 clutch won't work the flywheel will but the super t10 came in a fine spline same as the t5 so you would be able to reuse your clutch you will most likely have to open up your shifter hole more to the drivers side seeing as how its an external shifter I have not slide the trans in yet to see where it comes up in the center console but ill update this as I go along feel free to ask any questions I plan on draging my car that's why I'm installing a 4 speed and I just think its kinda cool how many people convert there third gen to a 4 speed one of the coolest things about this swap though is that I will be installing a hurst vertigate ram rod shifter

 

Keep us updated of exactly what you need to do and parts needed.
there has been several people here wanting a hydraulic set up for their 4 sp.

 

If you buy the lake wood safty bell housing for this car should be part number 15020 summit has probly the cheapest price on it around $450 you will be able to use stock camaro pedals and hydrolics same ones that came on the t5 the bell hosuing has the option of bolting up a t5 at the 17 degree slant or the t10 or muncie strait up it has multiple bolt holes and bolts right to your block with no fabrication

 

Started bolting the hydraulics up last night and I realised that the stock throw out bearing fork will not work its pretty much strait and hits the bell hosuing so you will need to buy the lake wood one with an angle on it

 

pretty sure the lakewood one will not work. You may need an adjustable pivot ball though.

 

Why would the lake wood one not work I'm pretty sure its designed to work with that bell housing

 

What lakewood fork are you planning on trying? Last time I looked they offered nothing specific to.a 3rd gen. I have a earlier camaro fork I bought with my lakewood bell and it would not work. Its been a few years, I forget why

 

Part number is 15500 if you go on summit and look at the 15020 lake wood bell housing for our style cars its under the suggested parts for it so I figured it would work I'm going to call to lake wood tomorrow and see if they have any thing that will

 

I got in contact with lakewood they said the stock throwout bearing fork will work buy you will need there adjustible pivot ball part numbers 15501

 

Sorry to dig up old threads, didn't want to start up a new one. Any updates/info? I'm looking to roughly the same thing with my Z/28

 

like i stated if you buy the lakewood safety bellhousings and a fine spline input shaft on the 4 speed everything will bolt up fine you just need the adjustable pivot ball to go with the bellhousing and that will work fine and a crossmember mounted torque arm seeing how the 4 speed doesn't have a mount on the trans for it and a custom drive shaft length its really not hard to install untill you get to the shifter i never really completed my shifter got it hooked up and working a couple of times to drive but never got it to work exactly right a guy i talked to used a universal 4 speed shifter and install kit from summit and said his worked fine but unless you wanna fabricated a lot up to do this to make it cheaper its probably not worth it the lakewood bellhousing is 450 the spohn cross member and torque arm will run you another 600 then you need a trans which will be at least 500 then a shifter at least 150 then a custom drive shaft which again at least 300 so unless you have a bunch of 4 speed parts laying around and are good at fabrication so the grand total is around 2 grand for which you can probably get a hole t56 swap done on your car for and have 2 extra high way gears i mean you can do it but i dont think its worth it

 

Funny how people WHO HAVEN'T ACTUALLY DONE stuff like this come on and tell us all about how easy it WILL BE when they're GONNA do it; then when they ACTUALLY DO IT, turns out what they THOUGHT wasn't very accurate at all.

And I do notice that you have the testicular fortitude to admit that you never really did get it working; that takes some personal honesty. Thanks for telling the truth about that.

You're exactly right about the lesson you are learning, which is, that the T-56 is AHELLUVALOT better of a way to go in these cars. It's virtually identical in its ratios to a T-10 or Muncie and is as strong as or stronger than either, but then adds 2 OD gears on top of that. AND IT ACTUALLY FITS THE CAR!!! What's not to like about THAT?

 

Just finished my 4 speed swap. Converted to hydraulic setup using a Howe throwout bearing. Pretty easy to setup. Used a super t10 and bellhousing from a late 70's camaro. Using a spohn transmission crossmember/torque arm. The driveshaft came from a 82' camaro with a 350 trans. Shifter is a hurst part #3917960. Only issue I had/have is that the shifter stick is too short for the console. The stick could be 3-5" longer. Has anyone corrected this issue with a different stick? Maybe part number #5387991?

 

Pedals were from a T5 car and the master was bought new at auto store meant for a T5 car also. Used russell part #641001 clutch fittings with master. Was going to use Ram clutch master (Ram-510) but is rather expensive. Used howe remote bleeder lines for plumbing.

 

Any chance you could post some pictures of your set up? I have a bunch of muncie parts laying around that I would like to put into my car. Interested to see where the shifter is located in the trans tunnel and counsel.

Did you have any issues with combining the Howe throwout bearing and the stock t5 master? I assume you are using the Howe #82870 bearing? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-82870/overview/

Also what is the length of the drive shaft you are using from the 82 camaro?

Thanks!

 

Bringing this one back from the dead.

Ignoring the clutch linkage issue, or torque arm issue for folks that have hydraulic TOB and alternate torque arm setup, is there any issues sing a 'straight up' bell housing Super T-10 and a off the shelf shifter?

I have a 80-82 corvette shifter, which mounts a little farther back and higher up. I wonder if it would cure the problem of needing a longer shifter stick?

A lot of the guys running T-10's in fbodies around here are doing circle track and don't have center consoles.

-- Joe

 

The hydraulic TOB would fix the issue that a "straight up" BH has in these cars; namely, requiring the "dog leg" fork, to get the linkage end of it down below the floor pan. That's a trypical crappy 70s "solution" to a problem that otherwise would have required innovation (which is to say, at the time, "inventing" a hydraulic TOB)

Other than that, I don't see where there would be any problem. If you weren't too concerned about the shifter exactly duplicating the stock one, should work fine.

 

I'll have to mock one up on the bench next to a T5 I have to get an idea of where the shifter will end up. I googled some photos of how the 82-83 cars did the T10 and I don't quite get the engineering. It uses a "straight up" bell housing but a rotated clutch fork, fine, but then why the goofy shifter that mounts on the right side? Was that to allow room for a torque arm mount?

And if GM engineered a bell housing with the rotated clutch fork opening but straight up pattern for the transmission, why did they rotate the transmission pattern for the T5? A TKO which is larger fits just fine "straight up" so why would they have rotated the whole transmission?

 

needing a correct bellhousing/shifter linkage setup from a 4 speed car? I’ve collected a couple sets over the years.

 

The firebird has a LS engine and a lakewood SFI bell housing. If I do use the T10 I'm not sure which shifter I'm going to use. I haven't really mocked anything up yet so I'm not sure where the thirdgen style T10 shifter ends up vs a typical T10 shifter.

-- Joe

 

Reviving this one back. Currently trying to swap a super t10 out of a 77z28 into my 82. I got the trans, bellhousing, about to order the spohn setup. Was curious, did you ever figure out a shifter that would work better than the #3917960? It seems like that's going to be my biggest headache but not quite sure if I should grab a factory 82 shifter or that or remove my console. I'd rather keep it if I can.

 

I'm pretty sure you need to use the 82 t10 shifter. I believe you need it because it not only places the shifter in the correct spot but it also incorporates the torque arm mount. Also, 1/2 way through 82 they switched to saginaw 4 speeds because there was a t10 shortage. So make sure if you find a linkage its for a t10. Also, you can likely use an 83 and up x member and re drill the holes. You can also get a spohn x member w a torque arm mount.

do you have an 82 and want to specifically have and original 82 drivetrain? Do you have the clutch linkage? I ask because I've had 2 82s and getting parts for the 4 speeds is miserable. Not the trans, just all the brackets/linkages.

 

I do have an '82 and it came with the 3-speed TH200C. I swapped the 305 out for a mild built 350 Vortec, and I'm not so sure how long the TH200C will last behind it.I have an '80 El Camino that needs a transmission, so I was thinking about pulling the 200 out and putting it in that, then manual swapping the Camaro. I originally looked into T5s, but I kept reading that they don't like much torque. Then I found out the Super T10 was used in some '82 cars.

That's where I can relate to what you're saying. It was a pain finding an '82 transmission, and I never did find one. What I did find was a 2nd gen '77 Z28 Super T10. I also read that I could use a Spohn crossmember to solve the torque arm issue. All I have right now is the trans and bellhousing.

As far as getting everything in the car, I think I've got most of it figured out reading the forum, although this is my first manual swap. I know I didn't exactly make it easy on myself. 😂

My biggest question right now is the shifter. Another guy in the thread said the Hurst shifter came up short in the console even though it was made for '82 Super T10s. He was using a 2nd-gen transmission like I am, so I think that's probably why. I'm curious if the factory '82 shifter or another kind of Hurst will bolt to the 2nd gen T10 and come up through the console in the correct location.

 

There used to be a Hurst shifter for the 82 T-10. If you're acquainted with Hurst shifters, you'll know that they consist of 4 main parts: the shifter itself, let's call it the "body"; the bracket that mounts the body to whatever it needs to mount to however it needs to do that; the rods (including the levers) that connect the shifter to the fork shafts; and the handle, which might have any sort of bends, twists, etc. to bring it through the floor and console, and into the right place. They're usually sold as a "complete" shifter, consisting of a shifter body, and an "install kit", which contains the rods, levers, bracket(s), handle, ****, boot, and hardware.

The 82 "install kit" was discontinued sometime around 1995. No other comes anywhere close. I was looking for a NOS one in that time frame and couldn't find it even with all the hookups I had in the industry back then. I ended up deciding to go with a T-56 instead as mentioned above, which is an ALTOGETHER superior solution.

There never were very many 82 w T-10. Less than 10% had 4-speeds if memory serves. Most had the Saginaw [:barf]. Maybe 10 - 15% of the 4-speeds were T-10, which would have put their production numbers in the few hundred to a thousand sort of range, maybe fewer. They were VERY unusual even when they were new.

No a factory T-10 shifter will not work on a Muncie. No a Saginaw shifter will not work on a Muncie or a T-10. Any T-10 that has similar mounting pad arrangements on it can use the factory T-10 one, which is ... not easy to find, complete enough to use, and of course is a factory POS anyway, like all factory shifters pretty much are. You could conceivably "adapt" any Hurst shifter body by making some new rods and a handle and mounting bracket, butt I make no promises. Not impossible possibly, butt when you think about it, who's gonna disable their completely complete and functional 4-speed car by selling that part TO YOU, unless it's a whole car they're parting out.

Any 4-speed you use will have to either accommodate the torque arm mount, or you'll have to use an aftermarket TA with its own mount & crossmember.

The reason for the 18° rotation in these cars is because in order to use a straight clutch fork, the fork would have to go RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the driver's right foot. If memory serves, the fork for these cars for the 4-speed (not the T-5 though) had an offset to it, that lowered the linkage end about 3 - 4" so that it would clear the tunnel there. Seems like the 78-up El Camino one had that feature too butt I'm not positive. If it does, then that will work, and will hold the transmission straight up. Alternatively you could use just about any BH and a hydraulic TOB.

I had LOTS of 4-speed cars back in the day. Starting with a 60 Chevy (didn't come that way obviously), misc 60s cars of various sorts, ABUNCHA 69 Chevelle SSs, some 2nd gen Z28s. In fact I traded in a 79 4-speed Z28 on my 83 L69 Z28. My late little bro and I had a lively business rebuilding Muncie and T-10 4-speeds for a few years, built dozens of em, butt that was between about 40 and 35 yrs ago now. Memory fades over that much time, especially the finer details.

 

The t10 and t5 have the same bolt pattern but the t5 is run at an angle. So the 82 and 83 bell housings are different. Then the 84 and up are different. So if you have all the 82 stuff cool. The t10 is absolutely stronger than a t5. But a t5 isn't quite the wet noodle they're made out to be. I had one behind a 350 for 20 yrs. As far as the shifter placement/location, You can always modify a shifter lever to work. There are also tons of aftermarket ones in many lengths/shapes. And there is a pretty standard 2 bolt pattern for them. I would get it all bolted in and figure out the shift lever last. It should be easy to figure out w your console. If you have all the stuff, do the t10. The spohn x member will make life easier. The 82 cars only have one position in the frame for the x member vs 83 and up. This may be limiting as far how thongs line up. Are you using the mechanical linkage?

 

I appreciate that. That’s probably what I’m going to do is get the rest of the parts pile sorted out first and worry about the shifter later. It’s still all new to me.

I’m picking up a set of pedals out of an ’83 tomorrow, so hopefully I find a few more pieces I need while I’m there. From everything I’ve read, it seems like hydraulic is the way to go, but I’m still figuring out exactly what setup I’m going to run. The other guy in this thread mentioned using a Howe throwout bearing, but I haven’t dug deep enough yet to know which one.

Definitely learning as I go. Every time I think I have everything figured out, I realize there’s another part I need lol. Hopefully I get it all sorted out.

I’d love a T56, but they’re hard to find around me, and the ones that do pop up are usually $3k for the transmission alone. This car mainly sees country roads and state highways anyway, and hopefully I’ll get it to the drag strip eventually since I’ve never been. I think the T10 will fit what I use the car for pretty well.

 

I agree with Firechicken that the T5 isn't THAT bad. I ran one behind a 400 for about 10 years....took it to the drag track a LOT. In all of that time, I broke a $13 3-4 shift fork at the drag track while powershifting it. Worth it.


This is older, but no one else answered it.

I agree, that the trans orientation and the fork have nothing to do w/one another -you could certainly have teh for "rotated" 18, or whatever is necessary to not hit the floor pan...and still have the trans installed in a "normal" orientation. The T5 could have been installed straight up/down. I believe it was rotated for no other reason than to get the shifter closer to the driver...and make room for the park brake handle.

 

this is all true. The fork is a tunnel clearance issue. It comes out at 8:00 vs 9:00 on most other gm bells. if the OP has an actual 82 bell. The fork is at 8:00 but the bolt pattern is straight up. The 83 bell also has a fork at 8:00 but the bolt pattern is 17deg tilted for shifter clearance.

To the OP, if you had the 82 bell and 83 pedals you still need the linkage. They were hard to find 20yrs ago. If you have one cool if not, I would suggest using 84-92 pedals and a hydro system. You can use a stock flywheel/clutch and bell and trans but use a american powertrain hydra release system. They make one for 82-92 cars. You can use it on all your parts and not worry about an old mech system. To mount the hydros on the fire wall you need a template to cut the current hole in the fire wall to accept a hydro unit. You will also need a fire wall stiffener plate the bolds/welds in. The 82 -83 cars have a thinner fire wall and need support for the hydro master. Also there are brackets that go from the brake/clutch pedal assembly to the hydro master mounting bolts to add further support.

i had a mech system in 3 cars. When i did my t56 swap i had to switch to a hydraulic release system. The hydra systems are complete and work awesome.

i know this my be more than you were planning on. If you have questions, let me know. If you can find the mech parts, its a super easy swap.

another option is grab a full 84-92 system. But you cant use the t10 w that.

 

Re-engineering the transmission rather than making a shifter deal with the issue is wild. GM does weird stuff.

I ran the TKX for a while, and hated the way it shifted. TBH, I've never driven a vehicle that shifted as nice as a T5. I've had various vettes, fbody's, gmt400s, etc.

 

100% agree that GM does weird, inexplicable stuff.

I've had the best shifting results with my ZF6's...but the T5 is right there too, and at the TOP (with a good shifter) for shift FEEL/fun.

 

The shifters on those 82 cars were ok. But that was a long time ago. The fact that they weren't really serviceable just sucks. There was no way to keep them shifting well. My t5 shifted well w a cut down stick. My t56 is great. Its a bummer to hear the tkx wasn't the best. I hadn't heard that about them before. Its a bolt in replacement for the OPs t10!