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I'm upgrading my rear brakes to LT1 type and stumbled on something I wasn't expecting.... (yes, I went through most of the posts here and still pulling out my hair!!!!)
I popped the rear diff cover and to my surprise, there's no 8mm bolt and big shaft to pull out and C clips to pull out with a magnet. I was prepared for that!
Well...this is what I got and no clue how to pull out the axle shafts?!?!?!
I honestly don't even know if this is original or not? I've bought the car about 10 months ago and have been fixing up the little things here n there....till now
Please don't scream at me cause I looked, but as some have pointed out in the past, I've been known to be blind.....
Yes it's original (or could be anyway). It's a 9-bolt.
It's not 3.23 (13 & 42). The 9-bolt doesn't offer that ratio. Might be 3.27 (11 & 36) however, that being the ratio in that range that the 9-bolt would come with. Might even be stamped on the edge of the ring gear.
To pull the axles, unbolt the brake backing plates, and use a slide hammer on them. The bearings will come out with the axles. Obviously you'll be replacing the backing plates as well anyway. Since you have to press the axle bearings off the axle to get the backing plate off, might as well replace the bearings and seals, too.
Thank you sofaking....I looked for the stamp and found it....I presume it is in fact a 3.27, which is fine...now you say 9 bolts never came in 3.23 but my RPO says GU5....it is an IROC and all the RPOs check out as so....
Oh boy....took me all morning long but I got it done! I took the backing plates off and the axles wouldn't come out....I bolted in the old rotors backwards and hit it with a huge rubber hammer....took 15 min of beating but she came out. I was having some doubts a few times if there were some hidden keys holding the shafts in, but she gave.
So the seals were rusted in and that's why the issues.....
I ordered the new seals, driver's side is Timken 224255 and pass side is Timken 710179. Yes, there is difference in the small groves on the sealing surface to the shaft. Has to do with movement forward and the groves making the oil go back inside the axle tube etc, so yeah, two different part #s ....2 sets of bearings API 37312KNZC or National 44358KH. I chose API due to their business being aerospace and defense contracts and so presumably all their products have to be in spec and quality steel....new backing plates on order hopefully all parts get here at the same time next week.....
(I like to add all the part numbers etc for guys doing research just as I am/was. I can't stand when people ask the Forums questions to solve their problems and at the end, they just ghost everyone not really posting what their particular solution was)
I'm interested to hear how your brake conversion goes. I wasn't aware that the 4th Gen rear were compatible with the 9 bolt.
If you got the time, money, facility and thinking brain, anything is possible....but meanwhile, I just bought adapter plates and will drop them in as soon as they get here
Got the calipers from the junkyard and now waiting for Eastwood to send me red 2K paint then 2K clear them and I'll be ready.....
and I have to weld the hand brake bracket that will accept the stock 4th gen cables
That was actually easier to get then I imagined. Went inside the car, ripped the carpet and drilled the spotwelds out....done n done....also I grabbed the brake lines and cables too, while there....looked like new OEM so the only thing I'm actually buying are the drilled and slotted rotors.....
I'm gonna mess with the e-brake when everything is hooked up and working with the primary brakes.....
now you say 9 bolts never came in 3.23 but my RPO says GU5
Most likely then it came with a 10-bolt w 3.23, butt somebody swapped it out to that 9-bolt. There were different RPO codes for the ratios in the 2 rears, so even though there's a 9-bolt there now, it clearly came with a 10-bolt. At this point it hardly matters; It Is What It Is, no matter what the "codes" say.
You know what? I totally wouldn't be surprised....the little things I find in this car. It was sold to me as driven by a 70 year old g-ma, and she actually was there and the title was in her name....verified through Carfax it's original mileage being 37K...no accidents 1 owner car blah, blah, blah.....but on other hand THE little things that just don't match up.... but hey, so far I'm happy, it is what it is, I'll make her purdy and solid
thnx for chiming in and dropping a line ref this diff...I appreciate it
As you can see above, the bearings that came on the shafts were tapered....I can't find matching tapered bearings that come with the press in bearing ring/retainer (not sure what it's called) Is it Timken set-7 ?? Because everywhere I look it says set-9. Set-9 is not tapered. Am I supposed to upgrade it to set-9?
Any ideas guys? Obviously the rear is not the OEM, we've established that, but where is it from then? What year? What part ref am I supposed to look under.....losing my mind over this....I just want to drive my car!!!!!
Fronts all done just install calipers and lines.....
Look up parts for a 85-89 Firebird or 87-89 Camaro w 7.75" ring gear, aka 9-bolt. Your car could conceivably in fact have come with one; some did. Ones for 7.5", 7.6". or 7.625", whatever they call it (they're all the same), aka 10-bolt, will not work. Common numbers for the 10-bolt include 5707 and R1563TAV.
Pretty sure they're tapered, and not available as a Set Anything. I could be wrong though. (and not just wRong, but also misshapen about that particular matter)
Look up parts for a 85-89 Firebird or 87-89 Camaro w 7.75" ring gear, aka 9-bolt. Your car could conceivably in fact have come with one; some did. Ones for 7.5", 7.6". or 7.625", whatever they call it (they're all the same), aka 10-bolt, will not work. Common numbers for the 10-bolt include 5707 and R1563TAV.
Pretty sure they're tapered, and not available as a Set Anything. I could be wrong though. (and not just wRong, but also misshapen about that particular matter)
I did all that.....I literally spent 4-5 hours just doing research....eBay, Amazon, Auto Zone etc.....all pictures show squared bearings, not tapered. Worse part is, I've ordered some already and all are wrong...too big. Ordered more see what comes in....thought this is going to be simple...I mean, all American classic etc....I was wrong. I bet you I can find bearings for a 77 honda way easier and cheaper!
The Torsen upgrade thread probably has the latest info on parts since it seems to have much newer replies.
Your 1987 G92 IROC-Z with LB9 and automatic transmission shouldn't have come with a BW 9 bolt. It should have come with a GM 10 bolt with limited slip differential, 3.23 gears, and the horrible Delco-Moraine rear disc brakes. This is how it is coded on your SPID label and how it should be coded on the factory build sheet if it is still with the car.
That's because they're showing the bearings for the 10-bolt, NOT the 9-bolt.
I gave you the part #s of the wrong (10-bolt) bearings. If the ones you ordered have those part #s, then it doesn't matter how many times you order them, they're still going to come in as 10-bolt ones, that don't fit. Read the links Airwolfe posted, they're a gold mine of info, and stop futzing around with those others. The people on here who own these cars have been down the road you're trying to travel and know what they're talking about.
A car much like yours, except with different engine and/or transmission options, could have come with a 9-bolt. Whie your specific car with its particular drive train didn't, others did; and evidently that rear got swapped out of one of those into your car at some point, maybe its original 10-bolt failed or something and that's the closest they could find in the junkyard at the time. The 9-bolt was used in lots of these cars, particularly the higher-power ones, for several years; but still, big picture, that's not a wholehelluvalot of rear axles overall. A drop in the bucket compared to the sheer number of 10-bolts that are in the world; ALL of which, in cars (not full-size trucks), used those same bearing part #s that I posted. That's virtually ALL GM RWD cars from the mid 60s through the 90s and beyond in F bodies. There were 8.2", 7.5", and 8.5" 10-bolts, in all of the GM brands, of all sizes (Nova, Camaro, Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Caprice, and their rebadged equivalents in the other brands) over all those years, and S trucks besides. There's probably a couple hundred times as many car 10-bolts in the world than there are 9-bolts. Which is why 9-bolt parts are less common. I doubt that there were more than a grand total of 50,000 9-bolts used in US cars, compared to MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of 10-bolts.
The Torsen upgrade thread probably has the latest info on parts since it seems to have much newer replies.
Your 1987 G92 IROC-Z with LB9 and automatic transmission shouldn't have come with a BW 9 bolt. It should have come with a GM 10 bolt with limited slip differential, 3.23 gears, and the horrible Delco-Moraine rear disc brakes. This is how it is coded on your SPID label and how it should be coded on the factory build sheet if it is still with the car.
I appreciate your time and effort posting all those links.....
In reality, all I needed was a direction to go to look things up......believe it or not, there's sooo much worthless info that you gotta sift through to find anything that is relevant to the specific issue.
and also big thanx to sofakingdom for always chiming in and ready to help.....also, to answer your suggestion that I ordered same parts (#s) and expecting different results, that's a no hahahahah My whole thing is, none of the bearings I've "seen" in pics might look same and show fitment for a 9 bolt, but when they show up, they're too big or too small or....
Doing all the cutting, drilling, tapping etc was nothing compared to getting new freakin bearings that fit!!! I got the proper seals after hours of research too. Rubber on the lip, directional veins inside the seal etc....now the bearings....
It's becoming clear that this is your first time dealing with ANY kind of roller bearing, and don't know what the pieces are.
Those all look the same to me; just, the Ratech pic shows it with its outer race still on it, and the others don't have it anymore. That kind of bearing has 3 pieces: the inner race (shaped like a cone), the roller assy, which those 2 together are generally all set up as 1 assy as long as the steel (or in some cases, plastic) cage stays around the rollers, then the whole assy is referred to as the "cone"; and the outer race often called a "cup" or "race", which is always a separate piece. The "race" presses into the bearing "bore" (in the housing), and the "cone" goes onto the "shaft". If you look up any bearings in any catalog from any mfr that's the terminology that you'll find. The topmost pic is the whole bearing including its outer race; the ones showing the exposed rollers show the "cone" by itself, i.e. just the inner race and the rollers w their cage.
The outer race presses into the axle housing. You need to pop that out of your rear, take the new outer race off of the bearing in your hand, knock it into the housing, press the new bearing & seal onto the axle, and reassemble it all. Not sure what the easiest way to get the old outer race out is; lots of the time you can stick a rod or a piece of pipe in from the opposite side and knock it out with a hammer, or possibly catch the outer-facing jaws of a slide hammer on it and pull it that way. I've heard of people welding something to them sometimes, that they can grab with a slide hammer and pull, butt that seems like more trouble than it ought to be FWIW.
Interesting that that's a "Set 9". Would probably be called "A-9" in some mfrs' catalogs then also. I didn't know they were one of those super-common trailer or wheel bearing combos that are so common that people give them an easy-to-remember name. I've usually seen them listed as just a cone and a race. In any case, Set 9 shows to be 35mm shaft x 65mm bore x 18mm width. See if that's what yours measure.
No, I know the difference.....the tapered bearings are 3 pieces and they come as so in the box....problem, the other bearings are just as 1 unit...nothing to take apart....well, that's at least what I got. When I say "squared", I mean the rollers are perpendicular to each other. Needless to say, they were just too big. So now waiting for hopefully receiving the correct ones in couple days....
Measured the shaft and has 35mm diameter....race is 65mm and width is 13mm...FYI
From: Franklin, KY near Beech Bend Raceway, Corvette Plant and Museum.
Car: 1992 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 5.0L L03 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73
Re: 1987 IROC 3.23 axle shafts removal?
I'm glad you got the races pulled out of the axel tubes and have the correct bearings now. Hopefully you have all the correct other parts you need too. Hopefully the cones aren't worn out in the limited slip differential.
I know.....she was running great before I decided to upgrade the brakes hahahaha
It just went down the crap from there....but I'm glad I fresher it up. Matter of fact, the right race showed some discoloration so maybe its a good thing....diff fluid will be fresh etc ....
[QUOTE=Skii;6569831]If you got the time, money, facility and thinking brain, anything is possible....but meanwhile, I just bought adapter plates and will drop them in as soon as they get here
Did you actually get a response from Flynbye?!?!?!
Interesting that that's a "Set 9". Would probably be called "A-9" in some mfrs' catalogs then also. I didn't know they were one of those super-common trailer or wheel bearing combos that are so common that people give them an easy-to-remember name. I've usually seen them listed as just a cone and a race. In any case, Set 9 shows to be 35mm shaft x 65mm bore x 18mm width. See if that's what yours measure.
For the 9 bolt rear axle: The bearing set at autozone is now called set 9AZ, works great. Oriley's part number is still, Set 9. The left seal at autzone is part number 30267 and comes in a bag labeled yukon ymsg1001 The right seal at Autozone is part number 710179 and comes in a bag labeled yukon ymsg1002, napa part number is still 16491. the 20 ton press and Autozone rental tool bearing puller part number 57381 8065 and will take off both the bearing and collar without damage if you get it behind the inner bearing section properly. I had to build a 6" x 6" 3/16" thick steel plate box to give the axle face room to move down while the bearing puller stayed stationary on the box. The new collars are a little taller but dont interfere with anything. Everything went back together like a glove.
I got my backing plates to convert the 9 bolt disk I had to the pbr brakes From hawks part number GM-9BOLT1LEBP
The 90 to 92 ebrake cables (autozone part number c1621) seem to fit the frame mounts and the ebrake hook shaped arm on the caliper correctly.
Rotors were from amazon with brake pads combo part number BLBR.62044.02 but rotors came in boxes with part number 600-52006 on them, made by dynamic friction company if you wanted to buy seperately.
Brake hoses were autozone part numbers 78265 and 77832. Although I didnt use the left hand side hose yet due to not being able to find a hose bracket that wasnt astronomically priced.
I used m12 x 1.75 x 20mm bolts with m12 washers inbetween the backing plates and caliper brackets to space out the carriers to center them over the rotors.
For the drivers side brake line that is a hard line directly to the caliper on the non pbr disk brakes I filed down the tall edge flat with the rest of the face and used the new banjo bolt that came with the pbr caliper (old banjo bolt is different thread and wont work).
