SgtSkip

I'll be getting a 350 some time next year to build. How much should I expect to pay from Ecology?? How do I tell if the engine is worth getting in the first place??

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

It depends on what you want. Do you want any old 350 you can throw together, or do you want a good one with some potential? Since you have an 85 you can go with an older or later block.

SgtSkip

I'm thinking something I can build up to about 350hp or so. I figure I can't hide anything any bigger from the smog Nazies.

BretD 88GTA

I think you'd be better off getting a block from a reputable engine supplier or builder.

Those cars are in Ecology for a reason - i.e. used and abused. You might score a good price but you'll have to invest in having the block checked out to see how sound it is, machine work, etc... and NO WARRANTY.

Ask Lon how many PAP rearends he went thru before he got a good one from House of Camaro.

IMHO, PAP, Ecology and so on are only good for some parts, mainly body related. For everything else they're worthless. The interiors are always trashed and the drivetrains are usually junk as well.

evil t/a

I agree with Brett . I would touch any Engine or transmission from a junkyard . If you want to risk it they are usually between 75 and 100 dollars.

forsete

I must admit that I was considering the same exact thing. I don’t know the first thing about rebuilding engines and I figured buying an L98 from a junkyard and completely tearing it down would be the cheapest way to help me learn more about what’s actually under the hood.

But at the same time I wanted to beef the thing up with a better cam, heads, pistons, valve job, etc and then pull out my LG4… Are you guys saying that the cost of having the block completely worked over and checked by a machinist would be a waste of money? I’ve also considered getting a short block, but those things are a little bit too pricey for a ‘starving college student’…

evil t/a

You are going to spend 500 on parts and another 250 (or more) on machine work for a block that needs everything. Then you still have to deal with the heads.

It maters what you want to do. If you just want a running 350 on the cheap then honestly you would be better off sticking with a running 305( and I am no fan of the 305) and saving your money until you can afford to do it right.

For what is is going to cost you to build up a junkyard block you can have a decent shortblock built.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I have picked up several "350" roller blocks from the "yard" and have had good luck.
In fact, the one in my car right now is a $50 piece I freshened up and added a cam and heads to and 13.70@100.50 ain't too bad considering.
just my $.02

forsete

The thing is, that kind of money won’t be coming in any time soon… (Finally starting on my bachelors ) So I figured getting an L98 from the bone yard and gradually getting work done and beefing it up as money comes in would help me get what I want faster.

What I am looking for, btw, is 250-300 ponies at the crank to start with, and maybe going from there when I’m finished with college and can afford the quality performance parts and higher insurance premiums…

Woaw… Well, that coming from you (and yes, I’ve been lurking around long enough to know to take anything you say as gospel ) I might just make a bone yard run as soon as I have time. Dave’s in Placentia a good place to start?

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

If you find an L98 (350 TPI from a f-body or Corvette) in the junkyard, you're a luckier man than any of us are...

Dave's in Placentia is expensive, so I hear.

Russ-So Cal

I think Don gets $50.00 engine blocks from Pick-a-part yards, not "full service" yards. With Pick-a-part there are no guarantees, but you don't care about a guarantee when your just looking for a rebuildable core.

BretD 88GTA

Keep in mind that Don knows what to look for when examining an engine block. So yes I'd say he has a much better chance of finding a good core in a "yard". He also has the tools and truck to make pulling an engine in a yard fairly easy. Not to mention his own shop and the contacts to get deals on parts and machine work.

Now, for a college student on a limited budget who needs to do it right the first time, I'd go thru an engine supplier. Heck, you can get a Pep Boys long block engine for $600 so a short block should be around $300. As a rookie just starting out, that's a far better deal and the block will carry a warranty.

That $100 from a yard sounds appealing now, but factor in the time and labor involved in getting the engine home, cleaning it up, sending it to the machine shop, etc... That all adds up. Then if you pick a lemon on top of that, you're hosed.

Tom *** doesn't take in any engine or transmission that he can't hear run or drive. There's a lot of gargbage out there. As I mentioned before, Lon pulled like 2 or 3 rear ends from PAP. I mean, how messed up could the average rear end be, right? Wrong. Everyone failed on him. He then went to Tom *** and got a reliable rear end.

At the PAP type yards, the cars sit outside in the elements. Everything gets rained on, gets water sitting on it or in it and rusts. Then's there also the people who go thru the yards and thrash good parts to get to some small item. As far as I'm concerned the yard is a bad way to go for someone with little experince building engines.

Mr. TurboTA

Hi all!
What's all this talk about no warranty with junk yard (pick-a-part) motors? You pay alittle extra, and get a 30 day (I think it's 30 days, maybe 14 days, I'm not sure) warranty! In 30 days, you should be able to tear down what you bought, and take it to a machine shop and get it checked. Same thing with a set of heads! You should do this with any engine or engine parts! Check for cracks! Magnafluxing will find cracks that the eye will miss! I do this with all of my stuff I use! Even cast iron intakes!! I've gone thru a few, wondering why I have problems, to find this out!
I just picked up a top end off a TPI car (Camaro 305). There is oil on the inside of everything, I'll just clean it out! The car was wreaked from the back. Just because the car was in a yard, doesn't mean nothing is good! Tell everybody how many rear hatch pulldowns Lon gets there! Lots!
As for rear ends, who here has never done a burnout in his/her car??? Everybody has done/tried it!! So don't blame the yards! Just don't expect to find it right the first time you go!!
Back to engines, look at all the muscle car guys! Where else do you think the Trans Am/GTO guys get their engines from? They don't make them anymore! The yards are where most blocks/heads come from!
Anyone can do a rebuild! Get your motor from whereever, and go sign up at a community collage or somewhere that has engine rebuilding classes hands on! SCROC right by me has this!!
Go to the yards with someone who has some knowledge of engines. There are quite a few here on this board! And alot of them just wait for a gathering of guys with excuses to go to the yard to go!!!
So.....go to the yards and see for yourself! See if anyone will go with you! It's going to be a fun experience. Heck, you may find something else you want!
Even if you get a good rebuilt engine from someone with a warranty, if something goes wrong, you gotta take it back out and sent it back to the place you got it from! It's always easy to let someone else rebuild it and drop it in, but it will cost $$$$$. Just do what you feel is best for you and your pocketbook!

Hope this helps,

George

BretD 88GTA

Hey George! Good to hear from you.

I still say, do the math here. Let's see, spend day at PAP, pull motor, pay for it (and warranty), take it home. Next, tear it down, send it to machine shop (gonna cost more money here), whoops block is no good. Go back to PAP and get your $100 back. You're still out machine shop cost and time.

Now, it's back to another PAP, pull another motor, pay for block and another warranty. Go back to machine shop, spend more money to check block. Hey maybe this time you'll get a winner.

I still say, for a college student on a budget, buy a block from an engine shop and get it right for sure the first time.

For the experienced guys like Don, you, the Trans Am/GTO gear heads, the yard is porbably a good way to go. I bet they look for a while though before they find a block they feel is worth it.

As far as hatch pull down motors, yeah, that's a viable PAP part. I wouldn't buy a 700R4 tranny from a yard. No matter how it good it was when it went in, let it sit for 6 months without being driven and I guarantee it will slip, and not shift properly.

I once bought a steering box from Marv's Chevy only in Sun Valley. I got a really great price and figured how beat up could a steering box be. Well, I was wrong, the box was crap and needed to be rebuilt. No savings there. I also tried to get a drive shaft from a yard before thinkng I would save money. The only shaft they had that was close was the crappy two piece Cadillac style. Needing the drive shaft quickly to fix my car, I bought it. Bad move, another lemon and I ended up having a custom shaft built. Had I done this in the first place like I preferred, I'd have saved myself a lot of time, agravation and $$$. The wrecking yard also wouldn't refund my money. Instead they gave me credit which I never used. Again, money wasted.

The lesson I've learned with major mechanical parts is go with a reputable shop and do it right ONCE.

forsete

Thanks for all the help guys!

I realize that finding an engine good enough to rebuild will be a hard task for a newbie like myself. My father does however have all the tools and skills necessary to pull, transport and drop the engine back in my car. (’93 4x4 ‘Burban, trailer, hoist, ‘engine stand’(?), garage, etc…)

I was thinking about the community college thing and know of a few local colleges that offer them. I will have to see in spring ’03 if I can manage a class like that while taking my other 16-22 units…

….so unless I find a cheap/free block (won’t be a 90-92 L98 of course) I will most likely end up buying a shortblock that will come with some type of warranty.

Thanks again guys!

Russ-So Cal

One thing that no one has mentioned here in regards to forsete, what is the value of learning to build an engine? Forsete, don't spend money on an engine until you have confirmed that you're in an engine class, then get someone with some experience here to go to the yard with you and help you pick out an engine. Even if you don't use the engine in your car, the education you would get is worth it imo. Even if the machine shop finds the engine block is no good, you can still tear it down, measure everything and put it back together. If you did that you would be out the cost of the engine, and machine shop cost to check it. When you got done you would have a much better understanding of how engines work.

Mr. TurboTA

Hi Bret!
He posted about slowly putting the motor together. There is no better way, other than buying a complete running engine, to build an engine.
I'm not telling anybody what to do, they have their own ideas on doing that, and they know their wallet size.
But, if someone is planning on a slow rebuild, get the block and heads. From a yard, newspaper ad, or whatever. Even if the person decides to change his/her mind later, you can always sell the parts for the same or more later.
I have personal experience with buying a rebuild engine thru Pep Boys! We had to pull the motor back out, and take it back! I also know of two other people who had to do the same!
Like Russ said, there is nothing better than being able to say, I built/rebuilt/did most of the work! Get your hands dirty!! You will learn!!
Heck, if you want to talk money wise, it would be cheaper in the long run to just have bought the car you wanted in the first place!
If anybody is looking for something in a junk yard, heck, just post about it here! I'm sure that some people who frequent this list, will be happy to go!! Lon goes, George Lara goes, and I go! At least once a month! Where I'm from, there are lots of yards real close together! We may have to reschedule sometime, but there is always somebody who wants to go!

Just trying to help,

George

forsete

Well, my original idea was to buy whatever thirdgen 350 I could find just to tear it down and see how things work inside. If I could find a decent enough block to re-build, it would be killing two birds with one stone.

Anyways, that's going to have to wait until I know that I have the time/money/space to do everything involved. Right now time and money are tight, so....

But thanks for all the info! I might just have to take you up on the offer to go to a pull-a-part or full-service boneyard some day! :lala: