First they ban R12, now they want to ban R134a, too!
----------
This one is even worse!

 

great...... here we go again, same old same old. let's Blame the old cars for all the worlds air quality problems... meanwhile, I have a local factory burning old tires for fuel, how much pollution you think that thing makes a day?

Glad I'm moving out of state soon, if this keeps up we'll each be forced to buy and drive those ugly toyota prius-es.

 

The 134a ban has been a long time coming. I read about that just after 12 was getting nailed to a wall that 134a was a "temporary" substitute because at that time they wanted to get rid of it as well.

Cali can kiss my rear on smog. There's zero provisions for physical deviation (non stock parts of any sort), even if it means you run cleaner in the end... they dont care, comply or else. Maybe when they start going after the real polluters I'll listen. Photochemical smog requires particulate matter to form, someday they'll figure out where all the particles are coming from... lol.

 

just for a comparison of state smog inspections. I just had my "stock" Ca emissions Dodge truck smog/safety inspected out here in Mo. so I can get Mo plates on it. Been here 7 months now since leaving So-Cal. the "ONLY" thing required out here is to pass a basic safety/smog inspection, brakes, lights etc. for the smog they only check for a "cat" and that's it. they don't lift the hood, no dyno with tailpipe test, nothing! As long as it has a cat they are happy. With as many high performance cat/convertors available that's no big deal. I even have one installed on my camaro now!

 

CATS really work, but you cannot put one on a vehicle that didnt come with one in CA.

 

I can't wait to move out of here, myself. Gonna be a while, though.

And why annual smog checks? What is that gonna accomplish? Bi-annual wasn't enough?

 

They need more money for the scrappage programs, which just supplies money to "poor" people with junkers.

 

Yes you can.
When I put the '93 motor in my '77 truck (that didn't come with a cat) they had me put one on when it didn't blow the numbers.

 

But you can only do that on a motor change. If the drivetrain and vehicle were not originally equipped, forget it.

 

To quote desi Arnez, guess I didnt spalin it right. And Don you should know what I meant.

If you have a vehilce that is subject to smog laws and you upgrade the engine to one that originally required a cat then you have to have a cat.

If your motor and vehicle did not originally require a cat then you cannot install a cat.

 

And to think, after the federal ban on R12 happened, Arizona temporarily restarted manufacturing R12.

I can't see the logic behind not allowing people to put a cat on say a 1970 Chevelle. What kind of rule would you be breaking in that instance?

 

As I have said before, HOT SHOT is a drop in replacement for R12. No oil change, no fittings and no kits. Just buy a can for 20.00 and shoot it in. Dont ask the automotive shops about it, they want 1000.00 to covert it.

 

the rule that says you cant modify emissions equipment, regardless of any effect it may or may not have on the operation or emissions of said vehicle.

don't try to figure it out. If laws made sense we wouldn't be $800 trillion billion in debt.

 

Now that statement is a keeper.

 

Ain't that the truth. Haha!

 

So if you had an old car from the 60's and you put a cat on to get rid of the stinky exhaust and help out the environment a bit, they would make you take it off?

 

If they enforce that law then yes.

 

This is bad news for us. The bi-annual was bad enough going every two years to get smogged, but now they want to make it every year? Totally ridiculous! Why not make every 6 months? Or, how about every 4 months? Jeez!

This bill is an attempt by the legislature to push people into newer vehicles which ultimately benefits the state economy. The auto service industry, banks and the insurance companies don't want people driving older vehicles that are easy to fix, cheap to insure and already payed off. They want you in the system so to speak paying through the a$$ if you want to drive in Cali.

Phasing out vehicles from '76-'92 by imposing annual smog testing will help to accomplish this. The problem is, it will take alot of vehicles off the road that are still affordable yet considered "classics" by many enthusiasts. Most of the vintage muscle cars and pony cars from 60's and early 70's are too expensive for the typical enthusiast these days. However, there are still alot of affordable but interesting cars from the '76-'92 era.

If the leaders of this state weren't so addicted to unmitigated growth by consistently approving mega housing developents, sprawling business complexes and fast food restaurants on every square acre of vacant land, maybe they wouldn't have to target those who comprise just a small portion of the motoring public. After all, how many vehicles from the '76-'92 era do you still see driving around in a typical day? I don't see many around here. In fact, it can go days or even weeks before I another 3rd gen out on the road.

 

^^^^ Damn that was well said.

 

Controling new housing starts will just make homeowners like me richer. Check out Santa Barbara some time, they have had a building moritorium, via water hookups, since the 1970's.

Things will only get better here when people stop moving here. And that will happen when the business' move out. Right now Calif is only interested in keeping eco-friendly business' in CA. Tustin refused to allow a cabinet shop to open up, too much dust.

And the motto of CA is "KEEP CALIFORNIA GREEN, BRING MONEY".

How to make changes, vote against every incumbant, if the "lifetime" politicions loose their jobs then maybe the new ones will start listening to the voters. Of course, the voters relect the incumbants and approve billions in eco bonds every election, so I dont see any changes in the near future.

Personally I'd like to see the whole State go back to Mexico anyway. It would get me out of here sooner and Mexico deserves Boxer, Fienstien, and Pelosi and the Bay area.

 

I thought our government were just a bunch of idiots, but that one definitely takes that cake. As for banning R134A, does that mean you are NOT permitted to have A/C on a new car if it uses R134A (and it's banned). To install A/C on a new car with a banned product would be breaking the law.

Looks like you will all be driving Priuses & other Hybrids in the future. Unfortunatley, if you primarily drive on the "highway", they actually get worst gas mileage since they work primarily off the gas engine but have to drag all this extra weight for the battery packs.

And then, you got the environmental problem of disposing those battery packs every 5-10 years that cost $5,000-$10,000.

Lastly, on the Prius, if it snows or has any slippery conditions, it can cause the whole system to shutdown as the slippage causes problems for the computer to determine whether to use the electric motor or the gas motor.

At least you guys get to carry guns...or are those outlawed yet down there?

 

The purchase of R134A will be restricted to certified AC repairmen only.

Guns, we can still own them, carry is another story. If Hillery wins we may be like Canada.

 

And what is Canada like?

 

No sir....we will be far worse than Canada! I am packing my belongings all ready encase hillary gets in to office. I will live in Canada before i ever live in the usa with hillary running it!

 

60% or higher income taxes, gov't run health care that is grossly inefficient, costly, and slow, much higher inflation, and its frickin' COLD up there!

 

Well that's no good. Good thing we have a year to decide. How about those gas prices, there already like 3.23 or so.

 

And how is that different than here in the U.S.? Ever dealt with an HMO?

 

Having witnessed both personally, things are a little better down here (cost aside, thats a guessing game)... but Hillary is gonna bring the house down soon.

 

Dont tell Momma Im voting for Obama.

 

60%?

Top rate in British Columbia (provincial and federal) is 43%. What are you guys paying? There are lots of US states that are colder in the winter.

 

I can't see Hellray getting elected, if she SOMEHOW does, then may god help us all.

 

Dang, y'all still have people there? I though everybody left the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia and moved to Austin Texas. We are known as "little Kalifornia" because of the Liberal influence and the high Kalifornian:Texan ratio. The liberals are bleeding out and running into Texas.

R-12 substitutes work better in R-12 cars anyway, but it sucks they want to ban 134 there. It's funny to pick up a can of anything and read the "Kalifornia section" of the can. Usually a list of limitations and/or restrictions found by the State of Kalifornia. We already see shipping boxes with the CA circled with a line through it indicating it should not cross the state line due to some Kalifornia only restriction.

 

Its bad enough people actually say "y'all"...but when you type it, it just highlights one of the reasons I still live in California. It's to avoid hicks (sorry 909ers )
----------
No, god help the 3000+ dead soldier's families that good ol' president bush sent to fight in some other country's civil war...a civil war he created.

 

Yee Haw!

 

Even with all the BS, its still the best place to live in the world when it comes to daily life and ammenites, places nearby to go, the weather, the women (or men in Julie's or James' case), and overall lifestyle. I wear shorts all winter and go to the beach. Hawaii s great but far too expensive and you are stuckon an island with no moutains or desert or Disneyland for christ sake.

I'd like to see just one person from any of the other 47 mainland states stand on OUR beach cliffs and say 'that sucks'- not going to ever happen. Our beaches have intrest unlike those crappy flatland beaches on the east coast- and the NorthWest states are too damn cold. Okies don't know what they are missing because they never grew up by it and are bitter when they come out here then leave back home. If it really sucked out here then answer me this: WHY THE HECK DOES EVRYONE WANT TO LIVE HERE. The only reason why some have left tis to cash out and retire off of the major housing market boom we had- and those I know that left and I talk to are miserable and now CAN NOT AFFORD TO COME BACK.
I can deal with Feinstien far better than I could deal with INLAND FEVER. I rest my case.

Oh yeah, on the gun thingy, Break into my house late aat night and you'll get a real short glimpse of the gun I will be carrying.

Canada? Isn't that part of the Artic ice cap? BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, my toes got cold and the snot on my nose froze and started bleeding when I chipped it off. F8uck, Utah was high enough on the Latitude scale unless you like Skiing Which I do- many months there are miserable enough without going way higher to Canada EHHHH.

About A/C? I just know R12 worked and when that was outlawed I simply switched over to R134 and that worked too. once this is outlawed I will probably be ready for a new compressor again anyways and just switch to what ever is new coming out and that will work too- Liberals will not ban A/C, they use it also- they too will want something reasonable that works just as R12 & R134 have. they both worked the same for me and kept me cool on hot days perfectly. I didn't see anyone moving to Canada for a cold *** climate when R134 was introduced- ain't goonna happen this time neither Haus.

 

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00237

 

I love when democrates like Ken are hit with the hard core facts-In case you missed it Ken- Feinstein (D-CA), Yea- along with 27 other Democratic senators

 

I am aware of that vote...
But that was during the time where if you stood out against the president, you were called "unpatriotic". It was McCarthyism all over again. That is the reason the "Patriot" act was voted into law....who would have the stones to vote against the "patriot" act right after 9/11. If you did, it was political and career sucide.
So, am i condoning her voting for the war, of course not, it was stupid then and it is stupid now. However, the context has to be taken into account. I am not saying i will vote for hillary, but we could vote for a chimp and that would be better than bush.

 

During the time? lol. Didnt stop Pelosi, Kennedy, Boxer, etc.
Thats just more reason not to vote for her, if she doesnt vote what she should, shes undeserving to be in charge... and on that note, she doesnt seem to have a problem speaking her mind so I'm gonna say that vote was her own choice based on the information she had.

 

Is it 2009 yet?

 

All i got to say is in 2000, you guys voted for Bush, and he did an obviously spectacular job, so you guys voted for him again in 2004, and he continues to be mentioned with the likes of Washington, Roosevelt and Lincoln.
Just tell me who to vote for in 2008 so I can vote for the opposite.

 

Who's crazy enough to do that?

I have no idea who I'll vote for in 2008, but the current Bush Admin. is one of the most corrupt administrations we've had. Some of what is going on is worse than Nixon. John Dean has even come out and said that.

I don't care if it's a Republican or Democrat, just give me someone good to vote for.

We should take any further political discussion over to SC3G.

 

I dont agree with everything Bush does, but at least he sticks to his guns. Not like Fienstien whos head swivels 360 degrees like a weather vane.
Then there is Queen Hillery.
or Bow to the East Osbama or however its spelled.
and change party daily McChange er Cain.


BTW. HAS EVERYONE FORGOT SEPT 11. OVER 3000 CIVILAINS WERE KILLED BY MIDDLE EAST TERRORISTS.

 

thought this might be appropiate here

Hillary Clinton called Bill into her office one day and said, "Bill, I have a great idea! I know how we can win back middle America and secure my presidential victory in 2008."

"Great, but how do you propose we go about that", asked Bill? "Well," Hillary responds, "We'll go down to a local Wal-Mart, get some cheesy clothes and shoes, like most middle Americans wear and then we'll stop at the pound and pick up a Labrador."

"When we look the part we'll go to a nice old country bar in middle America, like Willie's in Hampton, Iowa... and we'll show them that we really enjoy the Countryside and show admiration and respect for the hard working people living there".

A few days later, all decked out and with the requisite Labrador at heel, they set off from New York in a westerly direction. Eventually they arrived at just the place they were looking for. With dog in tow they walk into the bar. They step up to the bar and the Bartender takes a step back and say's, "aren't you Bill and Hillary Clinton ?" Hillary answers, "Yes we are, and what a lovely town you have here. We were just passing through and Bill suggested that we stop and take in some local color."

They then order a couple of cocktails from the bartender and proceed to drink them down, all the while chatting up a storm with anyone who would listen. All of a sudden, the bar room door opens and a grizzled old farmer comes in. He walks up to the Labrador, lifts its tail and looks underneath, shrugs his shoulders and walks out the door. A few moments later, in comes another old farmer. He walks up to the dog, lifts its tail, looks underneath, scratches his head and then leaves the bar.

Over the course of the next hour or so, another four or five farmers come in, lift the dog's tail, and go away looking puzzled. Eventually Hillary and Bill can stand it no longer and call the bartender over.

"Tell me" said Hillary, "why did all those old farmers come in
and look under the dog's tail like that? Is it some sort of old custom?"

"Good Lord no," said the bartender. "Its just that someone has told them that there was a Labrador in this bar with two a$$holes!"

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

Ummm, no...i dont think anyone has forgotten, but whats your point?

And sticking to your guns is not a good thing when people are getting killed because of your mistake. It shows an unwillingness to compromise and a general lack of maturity.
Every little boy knows it takes courage to stand up and admit youve made a mistake.

 

maybe you need to read a little more and find out what Countries are allowing terrorists to train and giving them other support.
I suppose if someone goes thru your neighborhood killing people in the name of religon thats ok with you.

 

You know, Ken, you have the same attitude for liberals as we do for conservatives, yet you're saying we're fanatical and one-sided. Hypocrite much?

Thread locked. Continue over at sc3g.org off-topic forum if you want.