thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I am in the process of finalizing my parts pile for my CA friendly L98 upgrade. I have a stock rebuilt L98 w/ ~10k miles on it. Only mods are Magnaflow high-flow catalytic converters (N10 option) and 3" Flowmaster cat-back exhaust. Currently the engine is attached to a 700r4 in good working order, with 9 bolt 3.27 rear end, also in good working order.

I plan to keep my stock heads to avoid the 2 grand for a pair of AFRs. I am hoping for near 300hp/330tq at the rear wheels, but would not be surprised to only top out near 270hp/290tq.

How does this look. Am I missing anything major.. or minor? Am I way off base? Also, what spark plugs should I run to work with the headers?

Thanks guys

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

BUMP for OP.

Also, since cali Smog laws only allow same quantity of Cats the car was built with, can smog techs tell if Third Gen Camaros came w/ N10 dual cats? On a veh where the SPID is missing? (If they even know about SPID).

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

Just curious how you plan on passing smog with the EGR blocked off?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

EGR won't be blocked. The aftermarket manifold accommodates both F Body and Corvette TPI setups, which have different EGR routing. Vettes have external EGR tubing which connect to the smaller EGR port on the rear of the manifold. F Body does not.

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

I understand the external EGR tubing, my GTA has that tube. Maybe yours is different, but on mine all that does is route the passage directly to the headers. I still have/need the EGR valve in the original location.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

You misunderstand. You're talking about the AIR tubes (which connect to the EGR passages.) I'm talking about the EGR passages themselves, which on F Body L98s are built into the heads, while on Corvette L98s are external. They connect to the place where the red circle is in the picture in my previous post. Our cars do not have that.

It will still have the EGR valve in the middle of the manifold. It will still have AIR tubes on the headers (which are fed from the heads themselves, not the back of the lower manifold.

This is what a corvette's setup looks like. Our cars do not have this (see red arrow.)

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

I think we are both misunderstanding each other. I was under the impression you were blocking off the EGR port itself, not the passage in the rear.

I was not talking about the A.I.R. tubes. My GTA has that EGR tube to manifold/headers. I don't have the stock TPI manifold. I have the Scoggin-Dickey Vortec manifold which requires that external passage.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Vortec heads do not have internal passages, so that makes sense. That's one of the reasons I did not consider a Vortec head swap, so I didn't have to play the "I have a corvette engine swap" game with the smog tech (if they were getting really nosey.)

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

I've never had an issue with that at all, and that includes the one place where they were being complete butt munchers and making me produce the paperwork with E.O.#'s for every aftermarket part they could identify (even the ones that had the E.O. # stamped directly on the part). Even they didn't notice the EGR passage. As long as EGR valve and all the vacuum lines are in place and functional, I haven't had any issues passing visual.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

What are your springs and valves in your heads now? The 2032 is the largest cam you can run with stock heads. I have some Manley valves and springs that will work if you want to upgrade them.

Are you also going to port-match the heads and intake manifold?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Kevin.

Currently springs/valves are stock. Springs should be newer, just stock specs though.

I haven't decided on port matching the heads to the intake, but I was going to definitely port match the SuperRam upper and lower. I didn't really want to have to pull the heads off if possible, but the engine is probably being pulled for the cam installation so it's not like it's not out of the question. If it's a "must" then I'll break down and have it done.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Took off a valve cover and it looks like my heads.. suck. 810 casting, swirl port truck heads I guess.

Going to factor in some AFR heads in the budget I guess...

What size should I look at? 185 or 195? What spark plug angle for SLP headers?

That opens up the cam possibilities a little bit. Anyone have any suggestions in regards to that?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

You know what blacksunshine'91, I think could be the opportunity to jump to Vortec heads and a SD lower intake. There are other options like going AFR or trick flow on the heads, but the price of vortec heads is.. alluring.

Decisions decisions.

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

That was one of the main reasons I went the route I did. It was cheap, easy, and still produced a good amount of streetable horsepower.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

It's really a shame you were in such a hurry to get that rebuilt motor.
Now you are seeing the downsides of that.

If you really want to know what to put together come and see me I will help you.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I'd love your direction, Don.

Just let me know if you want me to stop by the shop sometime, or just PM you.

Your time and expertise are appreciated.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone have experience with EngineQuest Hybrid Vortec heads? EQ-CH350GA specifically. They are Vortec styled heads with a 87-95 intake bolt pattern and center bolt valve covers (aka stock TPI / TBI lower manifolds work right out of the box - no SD vortec base needed.) They are meant as bolt-on replacements for iron L98 heads, and a few others, including heads I have now.

They do have internal EGR passages. The specs on the $400ea drop in and go pre-assembled heads are:

- 176cc intake runner
- 64cc combustion chambers
- 1.94" intake valve
- 1.50" exhaust valve
- Viton seals
- Springs Single W/D 1.25" OD X 0.78 ID 108LB @ 1.70 closed / 281LB @ 1.25 open 1.13 C/BIND (set up for a max lift .520 cam)
- 6 bolt exhaust manifold holes
- center valve cover mounting holes

These look like they'd be a drop in replacement head that'd act like vortecs. Combined with a proper cam, they seem to be pretty good. Some magazine pushed a 450HP build with them. Way cheaper than AFRs, smog friendly for me due to EGR passages.

mrestrictrplate

iTrader: (2)

..

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

Great thread...........those of us in SMOG BS states look forward to the results!

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I'll keep it updated.

I am really interested in these heads. For the price, they make a budget build doable. Hoping someone like Kevin or Don chimes in on them, they have been dealing with Cali Smog BS for longer than most people, and know TPI like no other.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Doing lots of reading of the 15 years of post history here. Thinking cams like the LT1 Hot Cam or ZZ4 Cam will pair well with those heads.

Obviously not the highest horsepower setup, but I also need to also be able to DD the car if required (and keep CA smog ***** happy.)

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I did some research on the heads, they look decent (CH350G).....but to even use the
ZZ4 cam would require some machine work.
They are limited to .470 lift.
HTH

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for taking the time to check them out Don.

I'll reach out to the mfg to verify the max lift, as this particular seller has it listed as .520 on the assembled heads, but I'd rather be sure since you saw .470 lift in your research. I'd hate to make a purchasing mistake based on a seller having incorrect information, which happens.

If the lift is indeed closer to .520, I'll be leaning towards them I think, unless there are other red flags. Here is the listing for the in case anyone was interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171566277921

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Those are weak suck springs for a roller cam. (like ZZ4) What quality could there be for 16 valves and a set of springs & retainers for $100, Others sell the heads for $350 ea. bare.
Also studs are extra. You might be better of to keep your own valves and get a good set of springs. Just pointing out some things.

Manley sells springs 125 seat 340 open about $90

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

All good points.

I was hoping to avoid a $2400 bill from AFR. If these hybrid heads aren't worth the hassle in the end, so be it. If there's an in-between option, totally open to it as well.

I just wanted to explore what was out there. This is also a learning experience for me as well, and apologies for you having to play teacher.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

See if these help you. Drop-in springs and retainers for increased lift with Vortec heads with no machining! I have used Alex's parts before. I recommend them. Not cheap Chinese junk. Call Alex directly. He is great to deal with. He also has valve seals and locks, etc. Also located in California.

https://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spr...rf-hyd-roller/

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Hey, no problem, helping others is one of the things I enjoy doing.

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

When I started in the Auto Repair Business, in 1976, the mechanic read HC and Co on an analog machine. He then hand wrote the readings on a "Smog Test Receipt" and gave it to the customer, who turned it in to DMV w/ his registration renewal.

SixSeriesCSi

iTrader: (11)

Don't settle for inferior heads; you'll regret it later...

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

We've moved on to CH350GA heads.

Currently working up parts list for valves, springs, retainers, etc.

SixSeriesCSi

iTrader: (11)

170cc intake ports & 64cc combustion chambers

That combination won't net you the 300hp/330tq you're looking for. Look @ my build & learn from the mistake I made of just throwing parts together...

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I have no experience with those heads. Never heard of them.

I see they have the internal EGR ports, so you'll be fine with smog on those.

But Don is right, 108 lbs on the seat is weak-suck.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...eq-hybrid.html

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0611e...c-small-block/

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Thread resurrection..

Finally getting to this project. 2 years later.

Everything is stripped down ready for the cam swap. Just gotta drop the oil pan, pull the balancer, timing cover and chain. I have a refreshed set of 083 heads (apparently I had swirl ports on mine..) with new springs ready to drop on - I know these will probably be the limiting factor of the car. Cam landed today.

Now, putting stuff back together is going to take longer than removal, but still hoping to have this fired up by the end of the month.

The biggest hurdle, at least the big unknown, is having a muffler shop convert the single cat y to a dual cat y, and then that tied into the cats. I'll still buy a fresh Y pipe from Don though, while I still can, and swap to that ASAP. From what I can tell he has a ton of orders, so it may be a bit of a wait for them.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Change the timing cover to the TPI version. That timing cover is for TBI

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Yea, it makes timing it a real bitch LOL

New balancer and cover will be going on (the correct ones this time)

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

One step closer. Hope to get the cam installed tomorrow.

89-S-dime

iTrader: (3)

I see your using the 083 heads, they have the EGR passages as you know.I am using them on my build, I did some mild porting, gasket matched the intake and exhaust ports and cleaned up the casting marks in the ports and did a little bowl work, just took my time, nothing major and had my machine shop upgrade the valve springs and do a valve job ect.. I used Don's guy to have the flow tested and the heads out flowed the Vortec's 906's on the exhaust and were a little less on the intake side.
because I bought the heads cheap from another member and did the porting myself I had less then $500 in the pair of heads, maybe not the route you wanna go be certainly something to think about

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Eye to eye with the stock 350 TBI camshaft for the first time...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Giving it the shaft!!!!

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

What made you decide against the EngineQuest Hybrid Vortec heads? EQ-CH350GA

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I had an opportunity to purchase a freshly rebuilt set of 083 heads locally cheaper than a single CH350. If that opportunity had not arose I'd have gone with the EQ heads.

Got the cam in last night. I gotta go back and loc-tite and torque up the retainer and cam gear bolts today.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Youre removing that stock camshaft right? You got the 2032 to put in there?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Yes sir. That unmarked tbi cam is out, and the GM 94666492 (Same grind as Howards 180225-12) has been installed. Installing the heads and doing the valve adjustment tonight after the garage cools down (any time before 7 its hell out there)

A lot of people keep quoting it's the 2032 cam grind, but some people elsewhere measured the duration and it's not as much as the 2032. $350 cheaper, so I'm not going to complain. Closer to the stock cam than the TBI cam was.

Duration is same as the stock 88-89 l98 cam (207/213). More lift of course.

Valve Lift Intake: .450
Valve Lift Exhaust: .465
Duration Intake: 260
Duration Exhaust: 266
Duration at 050 Intake: 207
Duration at 050 Exhaust: 213
Lobe Separation: 112
Intake Centerline: 108

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Heads are on, valve train adjusted. Looking like an engine again!

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

This CAME up in another thread...............will you be using the 350 ECU and or PROM? Will the ca SMOG machine pick up on this?

What injectors will you be using? I have read you want to run the 350 Knock Sensors, also.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

This isn't an engine swap. The car already had a 350, so.. everything is 350 from knock sensor to PROM. I'm using Delphi 22lb injectors, aka stock replacements. No need to upgrade injectors if you're getting a tune with such a small camshaft and restrictive heads.

I doubt it'll have any issues with actual emissions. It's not super aggressive.

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

ahh, GREAT!

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I would put a better double roller timing chain

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Too late on that as she's buttoned up. The chain had 0 degrees of deflection so I put it back on and am just gonna send it (it has 12k miles on it). Realistically the car won't see 20k miles over the next decade so it'll be alright for my uses. Maybe after I'm dead and someone buys it at my estate sale.. they can deal with it