Whats the difference between a 4-link rear end and a ladder bar?
which is better

 

A 4-link has {drum roll please} 4 links. 2 control arms on each side, one upper, one lower. In most stock cars, the lowers are almost straight front to rear, but the uppers are at a considerable angle; this creates a triangle which holds the rear located correctly under the car. Racing 4-link setups have all 4 arms parallel to the drive shaft, and a panhard bar to center the rear.

Ladder bars are triangular assemblies that bolt to only one pivot point at the front, and attach to both the top and the bottom of the rear end, to keep it from rotating. They have no choice but to bind when the 2 sides of the suspension are deflected unequally, and so are totally unsuited for street use. However, since they inherently try to force the car to stay level, they're easier to tune at the strip.

"Better" depends on your intended usage.

 

Look under a G-body car. Monte Carlo, Gran Prix, Cutlass etc. They use a factory 4 link system. Although it's not adjustable it still uses the same principal of operation.

Ladder bars are a drag race only suspension. Because of how they work, driving on the street would be very rough. Even when I drive through the pits I here the ladder bars banging.

 

thanks i want to kinda pro street it so driving on the street is a must

 

There's nothing wrong with third gen suspension if you change the parts out to aftermarket ones. Good LCA, panhard bar and an adjustable torque arm will work just fine on the street.

Converting to ladder bars or a 4-link system will require rear floor modifications. There just isn't enough room under the car to install them any other way. Usually converting to 4-link requires a complete back half done.

 

If they made the aftermarket stuff that they do now for our cars when I started mine, I would nothave went ladder bar. I dumped about 3600 for a custum cage, channeling the rear floor pan where the seats used to be for the mufflers and ladder bar travel, knock in a fuel cell, and the ladder bar and panhard bar. I wish I would have went four link so I could road race it my 6 speed from my daily driver. I got a 9" with w/ 4.10's and disks with it also though, but it could have been money better spent with the present aftermarket out there.

If ya still wanna just get crazy though, definetly go four link.

 

I know of a few cars with ladder set up and street driven. Definitely not for autocross or daily driver... but for a toy, yep. Puttin ladders on my 87.
Bob

 

How about Ladder bars with a wishbone? Are they more streetable? Also, why EXACTLY are ladder bars bad for road racing or street use? I bought an IROC with a ladder bar and wishbone setup with coil overs...and it's not TOO bad for regualer sreet use (I don't go crazy fishtailing or anything stupid). I'm just replaicing the Locker with a Posi for a more streetable ride cuz right now i'm switching lanes on the highway without any notice with the Locker . If I put a swaybar back up front, will the car be fine for normal street abuse? I don't want to break the suspension in half LOL.

 

Ladder bars work like a door on hinges. You can't open just the top of the door without it wanting to spring back. Ladder bars are the same way. When one wheel lifts up going over a bump, the other wheel is forced up also. This makes for a rough and noisy ride.

Road racing is bad. When diving around a corner the car will have a lot of body roll. Since the rear suspension should flex and extend to keep the wheels on the ground, ladder bars will try to force a wheel off the ground.

Wishbone?

 

Here's a pic of my ladder bars with a wishbone. It's not the greatest pic.

 

That's actually a horrible picture of it, but it's the best I have on my computer. But you can see there's a diagnal bar going from the top of the ladder bar and towards under the pumpkin.

 

The diagonal link is required since there needs to be something keeping the diff centered. I still use an aftermarket panhard bar with my ladder bars. I still don't understand the purpose of whatever a wishbone is.

 

go check out my thread in the exhaust board. its the one about the deathly sounding duals. a couple posts down i got a pic of my ladder bars that require no floor cutting. the chassis engeneer for the JEGS race team designed these for a 86 iroc that they were racing. the ladder bar on the driver's side has a block that you can take out for driving on the street that will "un-lock" the ladder bar so it will act more like a normal suspension so both wheels don't go up when going over bumps around a corner or so. they are more expensive than regular ladder bars ($329). they are made to order because not many people know about them and there is no demand for them. if you are lucky enough as i am to be able to go to there stores you might be able to get them to sell you the display model already assembled for $250. thats what i did i have driven the car on the street a little bit and i like how the work. the car launches nice and straight. they are pretty beefy too. the guy at jegs said they will hold up to a low 10sec car pounding on them constantly and should last indefinately on a street car.

Rich

 

Another one for the wishbone issue.

Fast3rdGen, those are definately some unique LCA's, similar to the adjustable lakewoods. True ladder bars however move the front link more forward in the car so they are closer to the center of gravity.

One more time, I think the suspension of a 3rd gen is quite unique. It's a 3 link, 2 like a 4 link set up (if you have adj, LCA's) and one big mother of a ladder bar that we refer to as a torque arm. Plus it has a panhard bar. Keeping with the stock 3 link w/ aftermarket stuff like spohn's (or others) that move the TA off the end of the trans tailshaft have proven to launch cars into the 9's. I would stick with that unless you have extra cash to burn. I built mine several years ago and would have went another route rather than ladder bars. 4 link or stay the same.

Ladder bars do look cool though.

 

My floor is not cut for my ladder bars.

 

Damn Mark...:hail:
I may need some of your advice for mine

 

Why use ladder bars if you can do this with a stock style suspension:



:hail:

 

dude those aren't LCA's in my pics. they are a square tubed ladder bar. i have an x-member welded between my frame conectors for the fronts to bolt to and i had to cut the axle flanges off to slide them around the tubes and weld them all the way around. i also have a diaganol link on there just not in the pics. i will have pics of the finished product soon.

 

Ahem... The idea is to go "forward" not "up"
just a thought

 

A couple years back, I installed a ladder bar kit on my car and now wish I never did. I have a couple friends that see 60 ft times in the 1.2s with the stock type suspension along with a good sway/anti roll bar. The torque arm suspension is proven to work very well.....I will be removing the ladder bars and converting back very soon .