I was watching a car show on "Speed" network and the guys on the show said that the upgraded suspension pieces such as strut bars, wonderbars, and other sfc's are for racing only because during normal driving conditions (in the rain or just wet roads) the cars begin to spin out and lose control due to the tighter suspenion components. I was planning on getting some of these suspension upgrades but am now worried. Are my worries real?

 

Your car will be slightly harder to control in the rain but the most important thing to remember is that the only thing touching the road is your tires. Formula cars go pretty fast thru the twistys in the rain and id bet theyre suspention is alot firmer than yours will ever be.

 

No...you're dealing with idiots on TV. Why would you believe them?

 

Go for a all seasons tire and you will be just fine.

 

a car is only as safe as its driver...

 

TIRES TIRES TIRES... A good set of tires and bail out most people out of most situations...

 

BTW..Firestone SZ50 EP's are an extremely good wet weather tire from what I've read. Have a special tread compound that gets softer as tire wears, therebye retaining wet weather traction. These are what I will probably buy next.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....rehawk+SZ50+EP

 

They're talking about an average driver expecting an average car.

Most cars are set up from the factory for understeer- when the front of the car will "plow over" the front tire if the driver takes a turn too sharply- by that, I mean that even though they've whipped the wheel to make a turn, the car still goes relatively straight- it doesn't make the turn they want, and they'll wind up hopping the curb, smacking a telephone pole/fence/other car, etc with a head-on kind of accident.

We go for oversteer- where the front has a ton of grip, and the back end will slide out if the driver takes a sharp turn.

The normal everyday driver won't expect their car to kick the back end out on them. They'll expect the car to "plow over" the front tire.

So Mr. Normal Driver gets behind the wheel of one of our cars with improved suspension. He takes a tight turn- Surprise! The back end kicks out on him. He wasn't expecting it, doesn't do any correction, and winds up facing the wrong way, or, hopping a curb with the back half of the car, or hitting a telephone pole/fence/other car with the back or side of the car.

Or, Mr. Normal Driver tries to speed up on a 3-lane highway around a curve, and takes the inside (fast) lane. Suddenly there's a slow driver in the inside lane, so he swerves into the middle lane, passes the guy on the right, and tries to swerve back into the fast lane - oops - the back end kicked out! He wasn't expecting that- now he's slid sideways across the highway and gets T-boned. What he "would have" expected is that he couldn't swerve back into the fast lane, because he expected the car just to go straight (instead of the front end actually turning.)

So basically it comes down to knowing how to drive your car... and avoiding stupid things- like doing any kind of "performance driving"on wet roads.

Best way to learn what the car can do? Find a big parking lot in the snow and find the car's limits. Yeah it's fun to kick the back end out and fishtail and all that- but now, try to <i>control</i> it. Kick the back end out- but correct it so the car goes straight. Spin the car 180 degrees around- and then power out of it so you don't keep spinning. Practice stopping distances. Kick the back out to the left, then to the right, and back again without spinning the car 180 degrees. Etc, etc.

The "bite" time for your tires on snow is super-slow. The "bite" time for your tires on rain is pretty quick. The "bite" on dry pavement is instantaneous!

So say, on snow, you can correct a fishtail (kick the back end out) in 2 seconds. Pretty good! But now, if you were doing that in the rain, you've got a half-second. And if that happens to you on dry pavement, you've got a fraction of a second to give it all you've got- so it's a good thing you practiced on the snow.

I hope all that made sense. It's late and I'm tired.

 

Well all those things those guys mentioned (STB's SFC's, etc) are intended to stiffen up the chassis. IMO those are the best types of mods for our cars. If the chassis flexes, it can absorb energy that should be absorbed by the suspension instead. In extreme cases this can make the chassis act like a spring that loads and then unloads (spinout! haha). Having the chassis stiff, and making the suspension do all the work makes the car more predictable. Now weather or not this apply's in the rain during normal driving conditions, I'd say no it wouldnt make a big difference. Unless you have problems spinning out on wet roads with your current setup, I think you'll be OK. hehe.

 

I'm with tom on this one and I think the stiffer the car the better, so long as you know the car. Shortly after I bought my vert ( and got it painted ) I was driving it home on a two lane country highway, there was some kind of large flat bed industrial truck coming the other direction in the other lane. Just before we meet to pass each other some kind of LARGE wooden crate goes airborn out of the back of his truck and it was on course to land somwhere on the hood/windshield/top of my car. Out of reaction I RIPPED the wheel and barely missed getting hit by the crate ( the car right behind me did not and ran right over/through it ) but my car with its flying carpet like frame/original worn out springs/struts and shocks was nearly uncontrollabe in a slide as to where my other two thirdgens have been very predictable when violently thrown aroud like that. Moral of the story, a stiffer suspension/chassis will be more predictable in panic situations than soft flexible ones.

 

I'm also with crazy, we were typing at the same time.

 

Biggest thing to remember about the TV types.... they've got to protect their butts in the Shark infested ( Lawyers ) waters of the good ol' USA.

Edit: And I agree with Tom and Crazy on this.

 

Thanks everyone, I agree that as long as performance driving is not performed during wet weather, everything should be okay, its just in case a sharp turn has to be made that worried me. I think I am going to finish ordering my parts. By the way, is HAWKS the place to buy the "wonderbar" or is there someplace else cheaper? Thanks again!

 

I have been wondering about this for a while. I think superchevy current article series with the red thirdgen camaro (now has pinstrips) highlighted that installing quality suspension pieces actually INCREASES braking distance.

So what are we doing when we add stronger and bigger and better suspension parts?? 1) decreasing body deflection and keeping tires firmly planted on the pavement to enhance friction. If you lost friction on all four tires, you would just keep going along the last vector your were traveling before you lost friction. Not good. Suspension parts oppose body roll and weight transfer when the vehicle changes direction or speed.

I think this is great for driving while changing direction (ie turning) because you oppose weight transer to the outside and thus maintain better contact between the inside tires and the pavement, improving braking and steering.


I think the only situation where added suspension would be worse would be in straight line braking. And that would only be when brakes are not properly biased after suspension changes. Stock springs suck because they are more compressable and stock struts suck because the don't resist forces of spring expansion well enough. This = nose dive under braking. The rear part of the chassis is actually lifted off the rear axles and tires as the front end presses down. Less weight on the rear equals less friction between the rear tires and ground. This is why the stock prop valve only shunts a fraction of brake line pressure to the rears (prevent lockup).

If you get bigger springs/struts/shocks you oppose nose dive but still have the same brake bias. So you have less tire contact up front than before (less weight transfer) and thus less friction and worse braking. If you make the most of your increased friction at the rear by setting more pressure to the rear brakes, then you will oppose this.

For that reason (and a differnce in understeer as stated before) I could see MAYBE why suspension uprgades might be dangerous.

 

Lets see with my factory suspention, it took me 3 minutes (yes I timed it) to get to a complete stop at 15mph going down a snow covered hill. That was fun.

 

yep..that'll definately increase the pucker factor.