Irocster

Hey guys, I am getting ready to order some stuff off the internet and I just wanted to know if it all sounds good before I order. Also, let me know if I'm forgetting anything. Car is an '89 IROC-Z.

Here goes:

Eibach Pro-Kit...$229 @ shox.com
Bilstein "sport" struts/shocks...@419 @ shox.com
Spohn adjustable LCAs...$155 @ spohn.net
Spohn LCA relocation brackets...$65 @ spohn.net
Spohn adjustable panhard bar...$115 @ spohn.net
Spohn panhard bar mounting hardware kit...$9.95 @ spohn.net


The last thing on the list is an "upper strut mount package" and at spohn.net, it is $164...my question is, is this necessary, and if so, it seems kind of expensive for two plastic pieces with a bearing inside of them...is there anywhere else to get these? Can I maybe get stock replacements at the GM dealer?

So just let me know if this plan sounds good and if I am forgetting anything. Thanks.

No4NJunk

LOL. They aren't plastic. They are metal and yes you do need to replace them. The bearing on the inside wears out and after awhile develops alot of deflection and resistance. Those are moog pieces that you looking at and very good quality. How are your: ball joints, idler arm, tierod ends (inner and outer), and wheel bearings?? I'd check into these along with front control arm bushings and steering box play (can be adjusted).

Irocster

well, I had a lot of steering stuff changed out a while back when I was trying to correct a steering problem. I had one of the pitman arms and a tie rod replaced I think. And then when I had the front calipers replaced, the brakes got all new bearings too. The car handles good in the steering department so I don't think I need to go a replace every single bushing.

The upper strut mounts aren't a big deal to get, I just thought $164 were a little pricey. I'm sure down the road I will get a full front suspension re-build, but in the meantime I want to stick to the meat and potatoes. Like, I said, steering response is all good.

Anything else? Thanks

nolanr0413

what about a wonder bar and an adjustable torque arm.

Irocster

I already got a wonderbar. As for the torque arm, I don't think I NEED that right now, but I will probably put that in after the new eingine/trans/drive shaft. Plus, it's an extra $400 that I could do without for now.

onebluemcm

Sounds pretty good to me for a general rear suspension overhaul. Got good pieces listed there. One thing I came across here recently in reference to the ProKit and Bilstein shocks was that someone recommended the HD shocks with the prokit versus the Sport shocks. Can't remember the reason though. You'll need a re-alignment of course after the springs. Polyurethane sway bar bushings might be another good thing to do while you're at it, if you haven't done them already.

Also, another thing I came across here a while back in reference to lowering springs, was something about trimming the sway bar end link spacer - the steel tube that maintans the distance from the end of the sway bar to the axle/lower control arm - with the idea being to maintain original sway bar geometry. I don't know if it's necessary, but if you think about it, is makes a little sense to me anyway. When you use lowering springs the chassis drops in relation to the front lower control arms/rear axle. Because the main sway bar bushings are attached to the chassis, after it is dropped, the sway bars will no longer be in the original position - it's as if in the normal stand-still position of the car, the sway bars are partially thought their range of motion already. Does that make any sense?? I wish I could make a drawing. ANYWAY, if you shorten the end link spacer tube, it helps bring the sway bars back a bit to their original orientation.

Like I said, may not even be needed, but in theory, kind of makes sense. And I've been babbling on for a long time now........

Good luck - Nuttin' better than an '89 IROC IMHO
K

Kontrax

you will feel a STB more then the panhard byfar. and i would get new trailing arms before both of those items. if your getting the bilsteins (which are absolutly wonderful )i would go ahead and replace the mounts also. dont want to invest all this mony just to find out you have to replace them down the road and have to take it all out again. the mounts arent metal... they are a rubber compound. the alloy mounts on the sphon site are the housings and they use a rubber bushing inside to mount the strut. if you mount a strut to metal youll be in a world of hurt


BTW you said you replaced the pitman arms... there is only 1 pitman arm and 1 idler arm under there. 164 is a little high, i know we sell the mounts for 84 bucks a piece but our prices are nuts too. replace the strut mounts now so you'll never have to do it again

No4NJunk

You just contradicted yourself! Alloy is metal. The strut mounts are metal. The bearing is also metal. I've replaced them on my brothers car. The strut attaches to the bearing not a bushing.

Irocster

Alright, thanks for the help guys. Onebluemcm- what you're saying kind of makes sense I guess but I don't think I will worry about it unless I have a problem. I will look into which shocks are better: the "sports" or the "HDs". I read on Bilsteins website that they recommend the sports for any kind of lowering. Kontrax- I've already got spohn SFCs and a Hotchkis STB...both have done wonders. I actually felt more of an improvement with the STB. What are trailing arms? It must have just been the pitman arm that my mechanic replaced then. I was looking under the car today and I saw the pitman arm and another thing like it so I figured I have two pitman arms.

Whether the strut mounts are metal or marshmellow, I don't care...I will replace them.

After all this, I will probably go through and replace all the bushings, maybe add the torque arm, and some nice earl's SS brake lines. Thanks!

Kontrax

lol i didnt contadict myself. i know alloy is metal....duh. there are no metal MOUNTS, just housings. all struts connect to RUBBER which is in the METAL housing. if you connect the strut to METAL, your doing it WRONG. and actually, there is a thin piece of metal in the mount. its actually surrounded by rubber. and dont tell me im wrong, i install this crap all day long. i think you should have a bit more experience then your brothers car...

icecold

its great you are an expert but as a owner of the hms mount, the alloy mount is a duplicate. i can tell you that you are wrong and i personally dont care what you do all day long.even the best make mistakes so check your facts.ive personally had the bearings out and there is no RUBBER at all in the hms or alloys mounts.
pete

Irocster

Oh man, look what I've started. Can we keep it contructive?

onebluemcm

Yes, most definetly.

To your trailing arm question - you've got them under control. They are the lower control arms - aka, trailing arms. It's a name thing again - just like the pitman arm - idler arm thing. They look the same and unless you read it some where or were told, a common mistake to think there were just two pitman arms. No biggie. Another on it the panhard bar - aks panhard rod, aka track bar - all the same thing.

I hear ya about the sway bars - even though I said all that, if I lower my ride I probably won't mess with them either - just thought I'd bring the point up. I, like you, will probably not lower any more than 1" and I'd bet the sway bar "misalignment" will not be a problem. But the poly bushings and end links - definetly a good improvement.

The shock thing - just repeating what I read here. When you shop for Bilsteins, most places seem to just have the sports anyway - probably another moot point. Mine are HD's - I think - and they work fine for me though.

K

Irocster

Cool, thanks for clearing that up. As for the shocks, I think I will just go with the sports since that's what bislteins recommends. I read somewhere on here that the only difference between the two is a little difference in the valving or something. What other bushings besides the sway bars and A-arm bushing should be replaced? What/where are "end links"?

Also, I am contemplating doing all of this myself, to save money (really, I am only thinking about it). I have the tools, the room, and a friend with some suspension knowledge to help me. As for jacking up the car, I got the front end covered, but when I go to replace the shocks/springs in the rear, how do I go about jacking the car up and then lowering it to take the pressure off of the springs and shocks? Make sense? Will I need any special tools or spring compressors to do this? Thank you

Kontrax

well i personaly dont care what you say. metal on metal causes friction there bud, thats just a fact. theres some rubber piece involved in the mounts or youll have friction in tower, that easy. you mount the strut on metal youll have a hell of a rough ride. a bearing? alrighty then... i suppose mufflers use a bearing too? its a bushing, unless you have some *** backwards setup it using a bushing not a bearing...

No4NJunk

READ MY SIG YOU FOOL! I'm an ASE certified mechanic. I do suspension work all day long. My brothers car was one example. I used it because he can back me on these boards. I've rebuilt upper mounts and there is no rubber. If there was then the camber caster specs would never be in. GET A CLUE. Do you know what bearings are?? So they produce so much friction huh. Guess I need to get some rubber for my wheel bearings huh.

I can't stand know-it-all rookies!!

I'll take a picture of a set I'm rebuilding as soon as I get a camera. Not sure what you work on all day long but its not cars. If it is....I'd like the number to your place of work.

Kontrax

know it all rookie? i could care less about your lousy ASE, that means your book smart, thats about all. fool? wow are you trying to insult me directly? i believe thats against TGO rules there buddy. i never once called you a "name" your now acting childish. did you get ASE certed for that too? because your doing a good job of it. i could care less what you say there buddy. i could care less about your cert too. and if your going to turn this into a flaming match you might as well give up before this post gets locked or some1 gets probated. so keep calling me names, it does a whole lotta good there tuff guy

No4NJunk

So when are you going to admit you were wrong? Just give up and stop acting like a women!

So you couldn't get the ASE I take it! I'm also CAIS but thats a little easier. As for flaming....If I remember you started the false info war here...then went on to say I need more experience! LOL. I bet I got 1000 times your experience on this subject and I don't even know you.

But I digress.

End links are what connect the sway bars to the control arm. They are easy to replace.

jack the rear end up at rear subframe (where RCA attaches), and replace one side at a time. Just jack up the rear, remove the seat and padding and take the upper bolt and bushing out. Then remove the lower bolt remembering how it comes apart. Pull old shock out and old spring. Install new spring and then push rear up to install shock. Then lower that side and continue to the next.

If you want you could jack the whole rear up and put stands at the subframe. Then use the jack to lower the rear after removing the shocks. Springs will come right out.

ColinOpseth

that's a pretty good deal on those Bilsteins.. so-so on the springs but pretty good on the struts/shocks..

later,
Colin

onebluemcm

Sorry to see your thread turned into a mud slinging fest.

As for front lower control arm (aka A-arm) bushings, you might want to leave them as-is or replace them with OEM pieces to keep the rubber bushing. The a-arms go through a fair amount of travel with normal suspension movement and this makes for a prime place for squeaks, binding and a harsh ride with poly bushings. Others will argue that it's not bad but the bottom line is that for a Street car - the daily driver type - it may be too harsh.

You do have to ba a bit more careful with the front springs - compressors are a good idea with them.

C-ya
K

icecold

well just to set things straight-- the hms mounts and the alloy mounts use a spherical BEARING to locate the top of the strut.that is i fact no matter who you are or what you do. so like i said check your facts,and quit being so bullheaded it just makes u look silly later.
you dont have to beleave me just check out the link then a apoligy would be nice but i woudent expect it as i doubt your man enough to admit your wrong.
http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1452

Xceleratemaro

so just give me your address and i will send some strut mount i have sitting nexted to me and you can see for your ignorant self. now i can see your a quick one.. now why dont you go and cry to your mom.

so aparently everyones a fool then why dont you do a search and see LOTS more evidence!

as far as the setup.. i looks good. but i would add some kenny brown sfc.. they look like the best sfc for the job i have them and couldnt be happer with them.

icecold

back in topic irocster------i have the origional gm set i removed sitting around the car had 25000 miles in it when i removed them wiuld let you have them cheap just cover shipping and boxing and they are yours
pete

Kontrax

couldnt get ase? are you bent dude? anyone can get ase, they give it to you outta voc school now. as for you, you have already proven you age and intellect to me with the ! and the "100 times" remark... your prob some teen who sits home reading books on the stuff. im not admiting im wrong because im not. BTW you started the flaming war here buddy. acting like a woman? heh your the one pissing and moaning over a lousy mount, prob yelling at your computer by now? i bet you are. ticks you off huh? i bet it does

Xceleratemaro

so wheres your address? i told you i would send them to ya..????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

just so you know hes not a book worm, he dose lots of automotive work i can vouch for this.. you are makeing your self look like an ***! and what dose age have to do with experence or knowledge???????

Irocster

Thanks to all that are helping and not wasting my time, I truly appreciate it. I guess I will go place my orders.

Kontrax

no actually im not making my self look like anything. actually it seems your trying to look big for.... people you dont even know that read these boards? or maybe being an "internet tough guy" excites you? thats what i figured. i could reply in harsh remakes like you and your online buddy there, but i think im a bit better then that. sad thing is, you dont even know me. dont even know what i do for a living, dont know my history.... nothing. dont think ill bring myself down to your level of intellegence. give you my adress? yeah dude, let me flash it all over for you. hmmm maybe i can take a picture of your everyday average strut mount to prove my point?

Kontrax

see what this man is saying? your eating up web space for something youll never get there bud, keep acting like a tough guy

Xceleratemaro

ok so do it... as long as the pics is an 82-92 camaro strut mount...

Kontrax

no problem. let me go find some mounts

Xceleratemaro

how about this.. https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=174585

Xceleratemaro

.

Kontrax

kinda far off picture dont you think? quit wasting my time

Xceleratemaro

got me there.. just admit it...

Irocster

Quick question, then I'll let you guys get back to the fight. I figure I will spend a little extra and get the the sway bar bushing and end links (front and back) Question is, what size, in mm, should I get for bushings? Biggest spohn offers is 36 mm I think. And what about the size for the rear sway bar?

Xceleratemaro

what are you talking about.. the sway bar .. or bushing.. i "think" the endlink bushings are interchangable but he ones that are in the center are not you need to find out what size you have... but the sway bar i would go with the bigist not questions asked..when i installed my iroc swaybar(34mm) i felt a huge difference..

No4NJunk

Probably since yours is an 89 i'd say 36mm front bushings and 25mm rear bushings.

Kontrax

24 is stock size for rears

No4NJunk

25s were offered in 89+. Best way to check is take a micrometer to it. Then go from there.

Kontrax

see, i learn something new everyday. 25s were offered in 89+ i also learned that ugly chicks have hot friends... can never stop learning

No4NJunk

well they were rare. I've only found a handful of people with them. Not exactly found on every car.

Wyclefs car is an 89 Iroc and he's got the 1" rear bar (25mm).

Here is a quote from Mike-88CamaroTBI's post on spring and sway bars that were offered.

Kontrax

rare, like the 454 vortec engine i found in a 95 tahoe today. never seen that before. wish i could find one in the local junker

Irocster

Of course that means I have to buy spohn's most expensive, 36mm greasable ones Hmm, I measured the rear one and it came out to be 28mm...maybe I measured wrong. The front is 36mm.

No4NJunk

You measured wrong. I've never heard of a rear bar being that big. What kind of micrometer are you using?

Irocster

I'll check the rear sway bar again tomorrow. I wrote to spohn so I should get an answer from them by tomorrow to be sure. Will these bushings/endlinks really make a difference?

No4NJunk

yeah, you will definitely feel a difference. The stock rubber bushings are soft and too forgiving.

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Ok, not taking sides here but since I'm the one that makes the billet mounts for Spohn, I will tell you that the bearing is a spherical bearing with a teflon insert. The bearing is pressed into the mount and retained by a snap ring. There are no rubber or plastic parts (other than the tellon) in these mounts.

onebluemcm

I was wondering when and hoping you would speak up Alloy knowing you make that part for Spohn.

As for the sway bar bushings, seeing as I have an 89 IROC as well, I can say that my front bar is 34mm and the rear is 24mm. Until a few posts up, I had never heard of a 25mm rear bar before - I suspect it's really rare. If yours is a rather standard issue IROC, like mine, then it most likely has the 24mm bar.

So just out of pure curiosity, does the little"Banned" note under Kontrax's name mean he's ....... a gonner???

K

Irocster

Crap, I measured again today and I have a 25mm rear bar... The front is definately a 36mm. I wrote to spohn again and asked him what the deal is with the 25mm and if the 24mm would fit since he doesn't sell a 25. Out of the shocks/struts/springs/lLCAs/panhard bar, I can't believe the damn bushings are giving me the biggest problem.

Oh, also, for a daily street-driven vehicle like mine, do I really need to invest in the chrome-molly stuff? Thanks.

ColinOpseth

check with Lon at TDS, he may be able to work something out for ya..