when somebody puts in a 4 link rear into one of these... do you weld the roll cage to it?trying to figure out whether I want to put in the cage before rear halving it.thanks

 

To 4-link a car means installing a back half frame rail system. The front of the 4-link is attached to a crossmember. The rear frame rails go up and over the 4-link bars and diff. The main hoop can be welded to the crossmember or still be welded to the plates that need to be welded to the floor in a unibody car. The rear braces should then be welded to the rear frame rails before the rear floor sheetmetal is put back in.

You're not going to find a 4-link in a third gen that still has the factory rear floor. There's just no room under the car. Say goodbye to anything related to rear seats. Put the back half in first then put in the roll bar/cage.

At least with ladder bars, they can be made to run under the rear seats although not perfectly.

 

good stuff! the main hoop then provides all the rear to main body connection I would need. I really don't care about seats, just trying to get as much consistency as possible. I've been reading that the four link is just much more adjustable than the ladder bars and it seems, more costly...

Just trying to get into a slow bracket to learn but I've learned from motorcycles that structural integrity is good and torque twist sucks...

now I'm wondering if people sell 4-links used or new in the box from a forgotten project. If anyone has one; let me know!

thanks again,
mapmaker

 

I installed ladder bars on my car years ago just because it was a lot easier to do and the easiest way to get rid of the torque arm when I installed a 9". 4-links offer a lot more adjustability but for a slower car, you don't really need it plus you need some software to tell you where the best setting is depending on track conditions. My ladder bars have 3 different front mount holes. After reviewing where my suspension geometry was at the end of last year, I moved them up one hole. As much as I'd like all the extra adjustment choices of a 4-link system, I don't need it.

I'm considering back halfing my car this winter and will still keep the ladder bars. They're just easier to work with.

S&W Race Cars currently has a back half kit sale on right now. Third gen 4-link kit ready to weld in, basic setup, for $900. You just need a diff.

http://www.swracecars.com/pdf/framesalead.pdf

 

this will be a slow car for a bit. something tells me it's better to keep it simple at first with something like 3 settings. don't get me wrong, i'm good with software and geometry but budget's not too sophisticated these days.

do ladder bars attach directly to a cross member in the back of the car?

 

never mind... just read the install instructions for comp. engineering's ladder bars...

now starting to wonder whether i'll get in trouble for welding in suburbia in the garage....

 

My car is 100% custom. Very little is a simple bolt in. My SFC run roughly under the driver seat to join the front and rear subframes. They're made with 2x2 square tubing. I welded a 2x3 rectangular tube between the SFC for the front crossmember for the ladder bars and had to section the floor for adjustment room. It's not as bad as if I had a 4-link under the car. My crossmemebr should be mounted a little higher but that would mean cutting out more floor and having a crossmember with a drop center for the driveshaft. Third gens have a terrible chassis design for any aftermarket suspension because of the low floor line compared to the driveline.

Go look at the pictures on my web site.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to do a back half but unless you have some chassis experience, it may cost you more money to get it fixed if you do it wrong. There's a lot of measurments to take to make sure everything is level and square. Take it into a chassis shop and have everything done right the first time.

 

well i'm a land surveyor so after looking at the pictures and remembering my lessons of triangulation and gussets i see how the subframe connectors and the ladder bar are connected through that sq. tube cross member. did you use your own metal for connectors and the x-member for quality and/or cost purposes?

 

The SFC were fabricated and installed by a local chassis shop within a week after I bought the car many years ago. Everything else in my car is considered DIY just because it's easier to fabricate something to fit exactly the way you want it than having to modify some aftermarket item to do the same thing. It's also a trial and error way to do things. I've tried and changed many things in the car until I've gotten it the way I want.

 

I have yet to play with any of that 4-link spoftware, but I don't think 1.15 60fts on 10.5 street tires would get any better(10.5 outlaw car, not my bird) I have read a couple articles and a book or two on tuning it though. 4 link is ideal, but at the same time we've got my old man's blown 68 camaro cutting 1.19 60fts on ladder bars, and I'm about to try a torque arm set-up in a 10.5 outlaw car.... - I don't think the software is needed.
- I fully agree on DIY. If I bought 1/2 what I have in user-buildable stuff, I wouldn't be able to afford parts for motors. - and yes, back-half the car(4-link) and tie the cage to it, or do ladder bars or a good torque arm set-up. I cut consistent 1.6X 60fts on 17" nitto dr's in my car on a homemade torque arm suspension.