Finally got some pics of the roll bar. You can see around the floor plates for the main hoop where the guy was welding to the floor pan and kept blowing holes through it. He filled them all in though, but I went ahead and took some pics for u guys to look at.







Im still gonna run 2 bars from the mainhoop-crossbar joint to the shock mount area.

 

I wouldn't have put the rear bars back so far. Anywhere on top of the upper deck would have been fine.

I'm not a great welder but even my welds look better than that. Looking at where the tubes are welded to the plates, there's no penetration of the weld. I sure hope you didn't pay for that welding. Personally, I'd get it all redone.

 

those welds scare me. I know my welds on my cage don't look pretty since the guy went over them a few times just to build up the welded area, but they look a ton better than those welds. The guy who welded my cage in is a body guy by day so he migs everyday of his life. He didn't blow through the floor once when welding in the plates and used a 220v mig welder on the bars. I don't think the welder had enough power to penetrate into the bars and those 1/8" plates, also, the area being welded doesn't look ground down until it's cleaned up either.

 

the guy that welded it in for me said he does gorilla welds. They look like ****, but the do hold. His main problem was welding the thick plates to the thin floor pan. And what exactly do you mean it doesnt look like the welds penetrated? I mean I honestly dont know how that looks, im not a welder. Can you explain that a little so I know what to look for?

 

typically you'll see the color of the tubes change slightly, I'm not a welder, but I've had other welders look at my roll bar and they all agreed the welds had good penetration, etc. Furthermore I don't know any good welder that won't clean up all the metal they are welding on to remove contaminants for a better weld, these look like he just welded right onto a rusty plate and rusty tube without cleaning the area off first. My welder even sprayed weld through primer on everything so it wouldn't rust either.

 

yea, those tubes are very rusty, what the heck?
Was that a kit, or did you just bend the tubes yourself? What diameter was the tubes? Is that considered a 6 point setup then?

Yea, the weld beads look round and like a goober on the metal plate. That means the weld stayed on top, and didn't penetrate down. If it pentrated down, and welded both metals together (rather than just adding some metal glue to hold it together), then it'll also throw enough heat to discolor (usually blue) the steel in the area...
I'll see if I can find a good vs bad pic here..

there's a few good ones here:
MIG Welding - The DIY Guide

 

This is a photo of a BMW SCCA car I installed a cage in. You will notice the
holes from the previous cage, it had welds like yours. The plates are the foundation for the cage, they really should attach to the rocker and floor if possible. The driver wanted max leg room, that is why I tapered the tubing to match the rocker.

 

I agree on the welds. From the plate to the floor looks ok, but from the pipe to the plate doesn't look like it penetrated. It looks like it just made a bead on top of the metal, which has next-to zero strength. - the first pic looks ok, but the second really looks like it just laid on top. The third is kinda half and half.

- the pic that randy4762 shows a good weld. You can see the dis-color in the pipe from the weld. You see no edge or seperate bead on top the metal because it burned into the metal.
A proper weld actually "melts" both pieces involved and molds them together. The wire or rod is mostly just a filler to maintain/add-to the thickness of the material being welded

as for the pipes, as stephen said, there's much more strength in tieing in near the shock mounts. Tieing to the rear has no major structural benefit. - Personally I would do what you did, but I would also put a "x" brace from the main hoop down to the shelf, near the shock/spring location. I would have done this in mine, but with the rag top, I can't have anything above the trunk shelf or my top has no place to fold down.

 

I would smack those bars around the welds real hard with a dead blow hammer to see if the held.

I dont think the main hoop would hold up if smacked at the base.

The bends look good to me. The welds do not.

I too have my rear bars going all the way back. It will make for a stiffer chasis and gives a more solid mounting point.

 

How is this when you're not tieing to anything back there? All of the vehicle weight and stength is ahead of their, at the shock and spring location. Tieing to the rear "frame rails" does very little for strenght. Once you go past the spring pockets he only thing you're doing is supporting the body slightly better, which isn't going to add any strength to the chassis.

 

well im doing both, Im going to run bars from the main hoop to either the top of the shocks and/or spring pockets. That way I got maximum support on the rear.

 

Quote...How is this when you're not tieing to anything back there? All of the vehicle weight and stength is ahead of their, at the shock and spring location. Tieing to the rear "frame rails" does very little for strenght. Once you go past the spring pockets he only thing you're doing is supporting the body slightly better, which isn't going to add any strength to the chassis.

If I only had so much tubing to use I would agree.

I am triangulated into the shock area from the bottom of main hoop and the mid point of main hoop. similar to other posted pics. I also have bars from the top of main hoop to rear most part of unibody frame rails. These bars are also X braced. I believe that this will help keep the panhard bar mount stiffer and may stop the frame from swaying beyond the spring monts due to vertical load. Will also help when I get hit from behind, down side no crumple zone.

The car also has 3 door bars per side almost touching door skin with a bottom bar connecting the hoop to the front down bars, 2x3 square tube sub frame connectors connecting unibody frame rails. These 2x3 extend through firewall into the stock unibody frame rails and through the rear seat hump. These 2x3 tubes are welded to the floor pan and connected to the bar that ties the main hoop to the down bar.

Tubing through firewall connecting to front "frame rails".This is also trangulated from bottom of down bar by feet through fire wall and dash bar through fire wall intersecting cabin side of strut tower going forward to unibody by steering box and pitman arm. Tubing is 1 3/4 .095 wall DOM.

The Car is stiff. It is used for road racing. I have tried to post pics, but they are too large a file or something. I dont have a digital camera and got my prints from wall mart on a disc. I dont know know to post them.

 

^^^ - that makes sense, but what you have is a lot more than a store bought 8/10/12 point kit with only one set of rear bars. You're using other bracing to tie the spring/shock area down and back, then using the two rear pipes to brace the subframe for extra strenght. Without the extra bars, it's more important to tie the spring area down/back.

 

That is absolutely horrid. I hope you never have to test it.

 

well Im selling the car now, and Ima give the buyer the option of leaving the bar in there, or I will try to grind the welds down between the plates and bars and leave the plates as-is. Either way, the guy who welded it for me is standing by his statement that they look ugly, but they are strong enough.

 

bad welds... if u flip that ur done!

 

It's not his butt in the car if it crashes. Of course he'll say they're strong enough.

I'd like to see the weld joint between 2 bars. Door bar to main hoop etc.

 

I had an 89 RS with t-tops and a 6 point rollbar with a diagonal that I welded in. The car was spun and flipped. Destroyed every bodypart except ds door. No problems with the structure. Even had to use a crowbar to pry the right side off the bar to remove it.

To get to the point I can weld and crash test......LOL

As Stephen says: [It's not his butt in the car if it crashes.]

Make sure you use a reputable persons work unless you know what you are doing.

My

 

I agree with everyone, heres some pix of my car, this is how u want it too look Everything is welded to a firm support on the chassis, u can kinda see how i boxed in my plates for the main hoop. I ran the rear bars to the rear deck where the main structure runs. And the last one is of my welds

 

snksknr...yours looks a lot like mine, except after the first small bead of welds like yours, the welder went over all the welds a second time, which made all the beads look larger, but he said since it's my life on the line he wasn't taking any chances. Not sure how much a second pass really adds in strength but that's what he did.

 

Pipefitter here.

Yes those welds are nasty.

Either dump it like you say or cut it out and start over.