I'm working on making my car handle better, and at the moment i'm looking into LCA's and Panhard bars. I'm trying to make this thing handle as best as it can, so i am looking at the full spherical mounts, by either Spohn or UMI, does anyone know, or have any experience with the performance differences between the full spherical pieces and the poly/spherical combo pieces? i am leaning more towards the full spherical, but don't know if its necessary.

thanks

 

also you might try getting a wonder bar, stb. the wonder bar helped my car alot

 

ive already got a steering brace, sfc, stb and all that good jive, im looking into the previously stated parts

 

Don't do dual poly!!!
Dual rod ends on the PHB won't affect the ride quality as much dual rod ends on the LCAs. The LCAs will also wear out rod ends faster.
I'm going to make a set that has rod ends on both ends of the PHB. The LCAs will have heavy duty rubber (poly isnt' good because it sets up binding in turns, and that's no good) on the body for a smoother, quieter ride and rod ends on the rear end.
Rubber end:


LCAs:


PHB:


It will all be adjustable on the car and be alot less than buying them from a manufacturer.
Oh, yeah, don't forget relocation brackets.
Also, what struts/shocks, springs, and sway bar are you running?

 

the sway bars are huge, crappy brand and i may change them, i have relocation brackets that im going to have put on after i finish my ls1 brake swap, springs are spohn iroc replacements, i dont want to lower the car because i like my airdam where it is. the shocks and struts are stock replacement acdelco jobs that i put on a few years back. im looking at koni yellows as replacements.

 

KONI Yellows, FTW!!
The springs aren't as important as the shocks/struts (unless you are really racing).
I am currently running a stock WS6/1LE 36mm front sway bar and a Spohn 25.4 rear (little too big rear, heh). Some stock bars are fine with the right bushings. I want poly-graphite bushings to replace my polyurathane.
What did you mean about the air dam, btw?

Here is my mod list:
KONI Yellow SAs, Spohn: Adjustable Lower Control Arms & Reloctaion Brackets, Panhard Bar, 25mm Sway Bar, Wonder Bar, 1LE 36mm Sway Bar, Eibach Pro-Kit, J&M Camber Caster Plates....
I am currently planning to replace the springs, the LCAs, PHB (LCAs more than the PHB) for custom stuff.

 

If you're serious about hard core handling then your messing with items thats should be number 15 or 16 on your list of parts to buy.

Tires, wheels, good shocks, good alignment, caster/camber plates with give you much better results.

Also the relocation brackets are a bad idea on a handling oriented car. Depending on your setup they could/will cause some rear steer problems.

 

lol i have busted one before i redid my suspension the first time and where i live there are a rash of potholes and dips in the country roads, i dont want to rip it off again.

i really appreciate the advice guys but my question was the about the lca and panhard bars, i have the front end pretty much done, minus koni struts and i am probably going to get caster plates, and at the moment i am working on the rear, and am looking for someone to tell me if its worth it to get the full spherical rod ends or go with poly/spherical combo pieces.

i am getting mixed reviews on the relocation brackets, i assume they are not a good idea handling? am i wrong, if i am does anyone want to buy mine?

thanks

 

Wow... that sux. I've never pulled my airdamn off, and I hope I never do...lol

From everything I've heard, the LCA brackets are great for handling. They keep the rear end more planted coming out of corners. If you are EXACTLY at stock height, you don't really need them. But, even if you are, they are still usefull. You can leave the LCAs at the stock point, or lower them. I would install them.

And the way you've descibed your roads, I would do a combo ended PHB for ride quality and not wanting to beat the crap out of two rod ends. But, for the LCAs, I wouldn't want Poly on either end. This can cause binding in corners, and make things somewhat unpredictable on the exit (I almost boobooed because of that once). Also, like I said before, considering ride quality, I wouldn't want dual rod ends.
If I had it to do over again (which I am, heh) I'd do a rod end on the axle end a heavy duty rubber end on the body like I showed (is that a word?) above. It won't allow binding like the poly, is more forgiving ride than a rod end, plus they are cheaper and don't need to be replaced nearly as often as rod ends. Those are a homemade set. They are light and plenty strong. If you are interested, PM and I'll let you know how to get a set.

Also, I would get a good set of camber/caster plates. The stockers aren't very strong and they don't allow much adjustment at all.

 

To expand on my above comments.

The geometry changes that lower control arm relocation brackets provide help and hurt performance in two distinct ways. The most common reason to use the RLB's (relocation brackets) is to move the IC further rearward. What this does is increase bite off the line. This mechanism still works once the car is underway but not as noticable as it does off the line.

The second issue you run into is that the lower control arms can induce roll steer. What this is that when one arm is raised and one is lowered as the car rolls into a turn. Roll steer is when the rear end steers the car as you enter a turn. It is universally accepted that you want roll steer that induces understeer. Roll induced oversteer is something you want to avoid at all costs. You'll need to do some research on your own for you to completely understand what I'm talking about.

Quick rule of thumb,

Rear control arms angled up toward the rear end will result in roll induced understeer.

Rear control arms angled down towards the rear end will result in roll induced oversteer.

The problem is to get the shorter IC that rlb's give you, you end up with the control arms angled down towards the rear end.

The concensus among road racers is that it's smarter to get your shorter IC with the third link and orient your lower control arms to take care of roll steer.


As for the bushing choice. Thats another give or take compromise. As mentioned the pan hard bar won't transmit road noise like the lca's will. You could get away with rod ends here. You'll have to replace them quite often since they are open to the elements and there is no mechanism to take up wear like a ball joint. I've heard guys say they get anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 miles out of them. You get what you pay for though, the 30$ rod ends will last twice as long as the 15$ ends. Also the 30$ ends are much stronger than the cheap ones. With links that keep you on the road, don't skimp here. As for lower control arms you're better off staying with bushings. It's true that poly will inherently bind since the lca's need to be able to twist. There have been some very good bind test done on the mustang platforms, but they use an inclined 4-link setup like my g-body. These setups are designed to bind and bind is much more crucial in these setups. In an f-body there is less bind because of the torque arm. So you could get away with a poly/poly setup. The ideal setup in my mind would be the currie johny joint lca's. One end of the lca has a johny joint which is like a heim only it's surrounded in poly.

 

with all this said, im leaning towards the poly/spherical combo pieces for the LCA's and probably a full spherical piece for the panhard bar, just because it needs to move in and out a little bit due to the slight arc of the suspension in travel, and with a poly body mount it wouldnt do this without binding. i figure that the LCA with a poly body mount and a spherical axle mount will decrease the amount of bind caused buy one side of the axle moving up and the other side moving down, to a reasonable amount if any. i dont see the need for full spherical LCA's anymore, and besides it will save me almost 150$
thanks for the input guys

 

Not a bad plan. It's what I would do if I weren't making my own. Let us know how it works out.

 

If I were in your situation I would opt for doing the torque arm first, then lower control arms, then panhard bar last. If you want ultimate handling as the title says go rod ended on everything. Just remember that sometimes ultimate handling and street roads don't go good together.

 

i went to full spherical rod ends on my rear suspension a little while back.

its loud.

but then i dont have any sound deadening, i dont mind loud banging noises(i dont have a stereo, too much wieght!...so i got solid suspension instead...), and i have a great source for rod ends. i dont mind replacing them, i have 8 extras lying around just in case...

all of mine is chromoly, except the torque arm. i only did chromoly cause they didnt cost me hardly anything. i kinda wish i would have done rod ends on my a arms now, they are currently delrin. i guess i could get some welded in...


any way, yeah. loud. sweet loudness.

 

just ordered my parts through the UMI group purchase, i got poly/spherical LCA, full spherical panhard and a new tunnel mount torque arm from them, i got the first one sold to the public, i feel so special .

i had talked to Ryan from UMI about the LCA and the difference between the two. he was very helpful and it was a pleasure doing buisness with him. i was told that the full spherical pieces are great, but do come into their own unless you are heavy into autox.

i should be getting them soon and i can wait to see what i come up with. im looking into a set of koni yellows and i just installed my new camber/caster plates, so after a good alignment i should be ready to go, unless it keeps snowing....

 

sounds great man, hope it all fits your goals.

 

The best handling tires I have ever used on the street were the Nitto 555R II's.
They only last about 12-15K miles though.

this is mine at 12K miles,

 

You ever tried BFG tires? My last set of BFGs also lasted about 12-15 thousand miles. I was thinking about getting some BFG KDs for my future 17x9.5s

 

you wanna take turns?? go all out..
tubular everything..
k-member
a-arms
LCA's
panhard
torque arm
i've had good experiences with eibach sportline springs
koni struts
maybe a quick ratio PS box
sticky tires at least 275's
SFC
strut brace
wonderbar
rollcage (for the EXTREME enthusiast)
5-pt harness
racing seats
huge swaybars
camber/caster plates
tierod sleeves
and there you have it, a world class handler.. haha

 

I have double heim panhard, it didnt create anymore road noise in the car over the stock. It is from unbalanced engineering, and the price was decent.

I then put double heim LCA's in, holy crap they are loud!!! I bought these used and appear to be homemade parts. As someone said before, no radio, no insulation, just the necessity's in this car.

Improving all the suspension parts dont do any good if you have crap tires though. My daily driver tires I can break loose faster now then with stock setup. And dont even think about driving it in the rain!! However, with good sticky tires, I have to do some totally insane stupid moves to make it slide.
----------
bump steer kit
extra homemade bracing on some of the mounts
lca brackets
panhard bracket (to correct its angle)
correct spaced swaybar endlinks
weightjacks if you want the abilty to tweak for the situation
spohn steel strut mounts

then work on your weight balancing (lightening up the front)

And I'm sure I'm missing stuff as well.

 

I've had the KDW tires and they were good too, but not as good as the RII's when it came to cornering.

 

Ok, thanks. I might be getting some Nittos next time tires come on the agenda.

 

If you're going to get a tire that only last 10-15k miles, you might as well get the best. The Flaken azenis 615 is "THE" tire to have for auto-xing in the street tire classes. The Kumho MX's and the new Hankooks are also some of the more popular tires out there. The MX's will handle heat better than the 615's, but will give up about a second on a 60 second course. If you are thinking of doing some open track racing then the MX's might be a better idea, otherwise the Azenis's are the tire to have although they will overheat if you ask them to hold up to 20 minute track sessions that you will encounter at a HPDE.


If you're not planning on actually doing any racing, save your money and get some cheap performance tires. You'll hardly ever get anywhere near the true limit of these high end tires on the street....if you are you're not long for this world.

 

The Nitto's are actually a softer rubber than the Azenis. The reason that the Nitto's are not popular for autox is that the tread wear rating is too low for street tire and not sticky enough for DOT tire classes.