No i was just saying that if you dont have all the stuff done to you car then theirs now way. But you got alot more that 115 hp where you can smoke him. I just cant with like the factory set up. I would like to get where you are at though.
kevin

 

That was kinda my point. You can compare your car to a stock clas "whatever", a street prepared "whatever", a modified class "whatever", etc, But in the end the DRIVER is the biggest mod.

I know of Stock Class cars (because of the driver) that can run rings around Modified Class cars (same same/model/bug obviously different mods).

You ca ind out how much is driver vs the car. Or you & your buddy can race "each other" safely. Same track, same day, only a 1% chance of wrecking the cars. I say 1% because there is NO track that is 100% safe.

 

We dont have to many tracks around here. we got one close but its oval where i can kick it down a little and then i will beat him. The road that we were first on their was no strait away it was all turns.
kevin

 

Only 1 track even "kinda" near here, but autocross is usually run on cone marked "tracks" in parking lots. mot full tracks. If you spin out, your just spining across the lot, not into dirt or curbs.

 

He is a good freind i'm not wanting to race him now. But i would like to make my handling better and then be like you want to go down that road again.
kevin

 

Use autocross to test your car for mods & get tips from others.

You can pretty mu ch always find an experience autocross person to ride with you, to give you handling tips, on what would help better, be it the car or your skills.

 

Thanks i might try to go down their and talk to some people.
kevin

 

I know exactly what you mean. A friend of mine went to the gathering in BG a few years ago with an all stock 91 Z28, LB9 auto and placed 3rd overall against some fairly heavily modified cars. I think his car was stock down the shocks. But, he's had alot of HPDE-type classes due to his job. That's someone to try to keep up with. I wasn't trying to come off as an **** when I was saying I think I could hang with him. I just know myself and my car

We have an auto-cross locally once or twice a week in the parking lots at Bristol Motor Speedways during the summer. They never have it on the weekends, so I rarely get to go. It's alot of fun and you can learn about the car and the driver.

If you really want to keep up with your friend, I still say replace all the bushings and things in the car, get some good tires on a larger wheel, get some high performance brake pads on there for added safety, some KONIs if you want to lower the car or the nice Bilsteins if you don't and go practice (safely) alot. Practice the road you mentioned since you don't have any local tracks and if you can't find a alocal auto-x. Start at what ever speed you feel safe (minus 5 mph), and then go progressivley faster and faster as long as you don't go crazy with it. And don't get mad at me if something bad happens

 

ya i know you wasent trying to be mean. I'm just saying that car can really wip around a turn lol. with my car i would like to get some new shocks and wheels/tires but i am a sophmore in high school and i pay for everything. I bought the car and everything done to it. So all the money i spent on the shocks and wheels just went down the drain you know.
So i was going to do other things till they where out. So like new coils, sway bar kit, and like the wounder bar. So idk but i'm trying my hardest. All my money goes into my car! I love it alot, the t-tops are one of the best things ever! So if you can name anything else little to help me out that will be great!
thanks
kevin

 

I know where you're coming from. I didn't have to pay for my car, but I pay for all the modifications. It's hard to work on a car in school, especially one you drive everyday. I was a junior when I got mine. It seemed like it took forever before I saved the money to get the hood, spoiler, bumper cover, etc and be able to afford to paint it. I had half a car's worth of parts setting in my garage for about 7 months before I got the money to paint it. I finally had it painted the summer after my senior year. Since then, I've been working to pay for college and whatever I can do to the car. I have a decent paying job with good hours, so that helps. My big mod this summer is going to be my front brakes. I'm getting this kit from Ed Miller. I'm modifying the spindles and hubs from a parts Firebird I have so I can save some money on the kit.


What size are your sway bars? If the rear is big enough, you might be able to get by with just getting a front sway bar from a junkyard or online and getting new poly bushings for them instead of the extra money on the aftermarket kits.

Also, keep an eye out online for used stuff that's in good condition. Things like springs and sway bars don't really wear out (I mean like newish spring kits, not stock stuff from the 80s lol).

Sometimes you can get a parts car and help things along. For example, I bought a parts Firebird (w/good tittle, lol) for $150. Sold some parts off of it for $225 total. I kept the front and rear WS6 sway bars, the WS6 steering box, the driver's side seat sliders (the ones in some Firebirds slide front and back, plus the butt part of the seat adjust horizontally), I'm using the hubs and spindles for the brake upgrade. So, I made $75 cash from the car, plus all the parts on my car from it, and the fact I saved about $400 in the brake upgrade.

You can almost always find a way to get the results you want with less money. It's just not going to be as flashy as new and/or aftermarket parts, lol.

 

My brother has a Cobalt SS and that little sucker is fast and handles pretty good but I can still take it in every way , okay not every way he gets 31 mpg .
Kevin these guys know what their saying , air shocks are horrible for performance , especially launches because they negate weight transfer to the rear tires and our cars are light enough in the rears already .

 

Idk how big my sway bars are right now i just know that their stock and they look like crap! But ya i'll try and keep a look out for some springs and stuff. Just woundering how hard are the coils to install the back dont look to hard but the front looks like it could be tricky.
thanks alot
kevin

 

Thats a loaded question... My car handles well enough that I havent found its limit yet. I loose my nerve before it wants to get out of shape. Are you sure you driving with skill and not just tryign to play catch up to your buddy and just diving into corners? Going around corners is an art

You will get some of the best results from replacing your worn out stuff. I repeat... REPLACE THE WORN OUT STUFF. Your aftermarket parts wont work as well if you have junk from 1987 in your suspension. Even if you just replace it with factory rubber...better than nothing. But i suggest using Poly. Seems to work good to tighten things up. Sub frame connectors help a bunch esp. if you have t-tops.

Here's my list of mods/replacements....

Front:
Pro-kit, Bilstein HD struts, Spohn solid strut mounts, wonder bar, ALL new steering including a new steering box, Solid adjusters for the tie rods, all poly bushings (A-arms, end links, sway bar bushings), and the stock 36mm sway bar.

Rear:
Pro-kit, Bilstein shocks, Spohn adjustable panhard bar, Spohn tubular control arms with re-location brackets, and a new panhard bar brace from GM (cost like $9) which I boxed in a few areas to stiffen it up. Stock 24mm sway bar with spoly end links and bar bushings. Thats it...the rear I kept very simple.

Im also running Sub frame connectors, and have welded some areas of the unibody where I could see some stress issues. Running LS1 brakes front and rear to help rein it in. Also running 17" WS6 wheels with BFG KDWS tires...very happy with the tires.

My car rides great, and handles like a sob. Never been happier with a car than I am with my set up now. Im hoping to get things together and make it to some events this year. Ide like to try my hand at autocross.

Anyway thats just want my opinion on it is. There is no magic fix thats going to make your car handle a ton better...like in a video game where you buy "sway bars" and all of a sudden you are at "stage 3" or something. Everything has to work together and it all has to be in good shape for you to see major improvements. Save some money, do some research, formulate a spending plan and just replace things and upgrade things along the way. You'll LOVE it and if you can drive, you v-dub buddy will be eating your dust (disclaimer: street/canyon racing is dangerous and bad )

J.

EDIT: Def keep your eyes open for used parts. As long as they arent beat up, they'll be fine. My springs are used. Ide get new struts/shocks though...dont skimp there. As for swapping front springs, its not too too bad. Just a lot of work to take things apart to get to them. I take the brake caliper off, and with the front of the car elevated, I put a jack under a-arm, unbolt the strut, then slowly lower the a-arm. with a chain around the spring. It will drop to a point, then easily pop out. But do some searching, there are a few recent write ups on how to do it.

 

Hey thanks alot man ya i know that doing like the sway bars wont make a big difference but i thought it would be a good start. Then with the springs i think i can do it but i also have to get it done in a day b/c its my every day driver. How lond do you think it will take for the front two and the back two?
thanks
kevin

 

Hi folks-
A couple of things in this thread:
1) I had to redo and reinforce the top mounts for my rear shocks in the EARLY 90s!! Anything more than stock moosh shocks will probably get you there.
2) Yokohama Avids are one of the few tires you can get 255/50-16s in. BF Goodrich too. Everyone else stops at 245/50-16.

 

Kevin, If you cans wing a set of used Eibach Pro Kit springs, you'd be good with those. I daily drive mine with zero issues. After I built a better y-pipe, even speed bumps werent too big of a deal. But you get a lower center of gravity...which helps.

Rear springs are cake. An hour tops for those. Fronts...I could probably do those in two hours tops. Pop off the tie rod and sway bar link. Take off the brake caliper and hang it out of the way. Then put the jack under and lift up slightly. Put a chain though a coil on the spring and have it go around the control arm. Unbolt the strut, and slowly let the control arm down. Be VERY careful of the strut. Its going to swing out and the assembly is kinda heavy. But lower it as far as you can. The spring will either fall right out, or you will need to give the control arm alittle bump with your foot. Every time Ive done front springs, Ive gotten them to just fall out. Doing it this way will let the spring unload almost to the end of its power potential. It will pop slightly. The chain is there just in case...but it wont coem out too violently.

Its just less of a pain than a spring compressor on our cars in my opinion.

J.

 

You guys are very helpful i will try to find some and get back with you guys!
kevin

 

I've got new MOOG upper strut mounts and replacement coils and new KYB agx struts . I'm looking right now for a set of front A-arms , I'm going to replace the ball joints and bushings before I even jack up the car . I still need to buy solid adjusters and sway bar bushings ( mine are so bad they're bulged out the sides ) .
I want everything ready to go when I start , I'm going in and replaceing everything on the way out .
I've learned it's good to have a few hundred dollars in your pocket before you tear into something like this just in case the wheelbearings are pitted or you discover a broken brake pad or a bad brake line etc. and don't forget allighnment money .
I read in a above post " chain the coil " , YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE MEANS , a coil spring can come out of the spring pocket at nearly the speed of light and take your head off ! I had one come out of a half ton pickup and crack a few bricks in the side of my parents house ( I was 16 ) , by simply wraping a chain around the bottom two coils and thru the hole in the A-arm and then pad-locking it to form a loop you can insure it will go nowhere .

 

Yeah...definitly a good idea to chain up that sucker. Although, Ive popped my eibachs out without it. They are shorter, and unload way before they slip out of the pocket. Ive found that the control arm has to be nearly straight down before it slips. But...Ive been known to do dumb stuff at the risk of my personal safety before

So use a chain. Or a decent strap (not a bungee) at the very least.

J.

 

If you have a set of metric open end wrenches, you can just use them to determine what sway bars you have. And don't throw them out even if they are small. You can always use sway bars for tuning.

I would just save the money from the a-arms and buy some real shocks.

 

I'm a Junior in high school right now so I know what its like to be tight with money. I also bought my car myself, about 3200, and I'll be spending about 1600 upgrading the suspension (I autocross) and then I think I'll be done with the car for a while. I figure with working two jobs year round I can afford to splurge at the moment. Then I figured I would reward myself after college with my next upgrade, a 383.

On a side note. If you try autocrossing take it easy your first run, especially if it is cold out. On my first run of the day last Sunday, I took out 4 cones within 6 seconds of starting my run. Tires were too cold and the back swung around through a wall of cones when I was coming out of the first corner. Needless to say I didn't do very good at that event (I placed 21/31 in my class).

 

Another option to help with the aggressive stance is to use rear spring isolators from later 4th gens. They are about an inch thicker than the isolators on the 3rd gens. I did that with my GTA and it made the stance a bit more aggressive.