Ok i have a freind with an 03 jetta GL it is slow as can be but if we get on a windy road i cant keep up. Now he has lowered his car new shocks all the way round with bigger wheels and tires.
Ok i got brand new shocks up front (not installed) they are Gabriel Ultra with the life time warranty. Then i got air shocks in the back and their also Gabriel (installed) i love the muscle car look with the rear jacked up alittle! Now should all new sway bars help me keep up or what should i do?
thanks
kevin

 

Quality struts and shocks, tires, and lowering springs would be a good start. A search will provide other ideas, no doubt.

JamesC

 

I really dont want to lower it and already spent the money on the shocks and struts. So i mean i got 235/60/15 in the front and going to be putting 295/50/15 in the back. So sway bars wont do a hole lot.
thanks

 

you are asking for trouble with the air shocks. they will blow out the upper shock mounts.

 

How i never heard of that?

 

Those shocks are going to take the car's weight off of the rear springs and put it on the shocks. The upper shock mount area on these cars isn't very strong and isn't designed to support the weight of the vehicle. They have even been known to rip out from the stresses of normal shocks.

i took that from another post i searched for.

i searched for "air shocks" and got about a million hits, as with every other search, and they all had the same opinion.

one even mentioned ripping the shock mount off the axle.

 

the eibach sportline kit will give you the "higher" rear end stance you're looking for without compromising the rear upper shock mount.

 

How much would they be?

 

what?

 

eibach website says sportlines drop 1.6" front and 1.3" rear. granted, 1/3" isn't much of a height difference, it's something.

spohn sells them for $245, but searching should turn up cheaper pricing.

 

Not trying to flame, but what does tire size matter when it comes to sway bars.

I have kyb 4way adjustable struts up front. 8 way shocks in the rear.
And eibach sport line springs all the way around.
Iroc-z sway bars front and rear.
And a shortened panard bar. Handles great.
Still have stock a-arms and control arms.

 

I never new that... not that it would really matter since I'll be getting Koni Yellows shortly... but good to know I avoided a potential catastrophic failure.

I agree the upper shock mount isn't very strong based on the pics I have seen (haven't taken anything out of my car to actually look at mine), but how can a gas shock do that? Is it because the gas expands more than a liquid shock, causing it too extend to the point where it lifts the body. Then after a period of time, it weakens the shock mount to the point where the metal can't stretch any more and the shock rips right through the car? I'm very curious how something like this could happen.

 

Ok i just want to know if i get some big sway bars will it help me any?

 

Yes larger sway bars will help reduce body roll. You can get subframe connectors, aftermarket panhard bar, and lower control arms. All of those should help the handling.

 

Read this, then come back with any questions you might have.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ng-f-body.html

 

I just got UMI SFC's put on and my handling as far as corners is much better, I feel much more confident and almost invincible on a sharp turn. Before doing those I got a wonderbar from TDS and it also had some imporvement from that. I plan on doing the larger sway bars next and the rear LCA's.

 

The confusion is terms that people dont understand.


GAs shock is a shock that uses oil to control a dampening, they use pressurized gas to keep the oil from foaming. oil with bubbles makes for crappy dampening. The pressure offers no lifting ability, the may extend after you compress them, but you can compress them by hand.

Air shock is typically a normal shock with an air bladder that is inflated to raise the rear of the car, these where really intended for hauling a load in a full framed car like a capricewagon.

 

Here's what you'll need:
Replace all worn components in the steering/suspension. No need in starting with a bad fundation. Next, I reccomend reinforcing the uni-body of the car. This means SFCs and a Wonder Bar.
Tires. Without good tires, nothing you do to the suspension makes a sh*t. Look for a tire with good wet and dry traction, AA Traction rating and a pretty low Treadware rating. This means a softer compound that will stick better.
Shocks. They are what control the whole suspension. You should spend most of you budget here ( I have $600 in my tires -275/40ZR17 BFG g-Force Sports -want better, and $650 in my shocks - KONI yellows).
Springs. Stock replacement springs are fine, or you can lower the car if you want to. IMO, Sportlines are too soft. You should look into the ProKit or something else. My best advice would to be to decide what rate/rideheight you want (after some in depth research) and order a set.
Balanced set of Sway Bars. Getting the biggest sway bars you can is the best way to go. You should get a few and try them out to see if which combo you like. A popular combo is 36 hollow/24 and 34 solid/24. Some like a smaller rear bar, such as a 21. I buy used GM bars - cheap and they work just fine.
To get the car to perfom, you have to consider how the suspesion works as a system. You'll get your best results if you ask quesitions and plan your mods. No offense, but if the shock and tire combo you have now isn't working, you don't have the right compenents. You need to try something else.
Here, read this.

 

ok so what is a wounder bar?
Then would this rear sway bar help me?


Detailed Description This rear sway bar is perfect for third generation F-Body cars already equipped with a 36mm 1LE front sway bar. The factory's 24mm rear sway bar isn't quite up to the task, you can dramatically improve handling by upgrading to our 1" solid 4140 chrome moly rear sway bar!

This rear sway bar is constructed of 1" solid 4140 chrome moly. Spohn's Rear Sway Bar stock is 4140 chrome moly heat treated spring grade steel. The bar is entirely heat formed and coined as one piece. Spohn puts their bar through this extensive process to insure that the final product will be the strongest, most durable bar on the market, and that it will be the most resistant to form alteration. Most aftermarket anti-sway bars are cold-bent, making them weaker at the bends, and more vulnerable to shape alteration.

Rear sway bar includes polyurethane bushings and end links, everything you need for installation and maximum performance! Sway bar is available powder coated bright red or gloss black.

 

Just to let you know, to much rear sway bar will lead to oversteer.

 

So i mean do think it is to big or should i also get the front with it? I was already planning on getting the front one but not so soon.

 

I have that bar and the 36. It's too big, IMO. Causes over-steer even with my large front bar during hard, tight cornering. Throttle oversteer is a big issue for me in any condition. I have a 24mm GM bar I'm going to put on the car probably Wednesday. I'll see if that makes the car more nuetral. Most of the auto-crossers and road-coursers agree that the 25.4 is too much bar for most cornering applications.
This is a wonderbar. Spohn and Top-Down Solutions have them. Helps reinforce the front subframes and helps stop cracking in the metal around the steering box cause by stressing that area with hard cornering. Some IROCs came stock with them.

 

So if i got a smaller one like a 7/8" solid 4140 chrome moly would that be better? Then i installed my struts to day and they did pretty good! But i would get a rear sway bar with a wounder bar do you think it would do pretty good?
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Then this is for 60 bucks do think it will work?


Chevrolet/Pontiac: 1982-02 Camaro/Firebird, mild steel, powder coated red or black
Details:
The Spohn Performance tubular steering brace is an upgraded, stronger version of the "Wonder Bar" that was standard equipment on many of the IROC and 1LE cars. No longer available through GM, we decided to design our own version of this vital piece of equipment. This brace is designed to stiffen the front sub-frame and reinforce the steering box mount. This area is well known to be problematic on the third generation F cars. The tubular steering brace will not only provide for firmer steering response, but it will prevent the sub-frame stress cracking problem caused by the flex of the steering box. That's why the "Wonder Bar" is considered a must do upgrade on any third generation F-Body.
Constructed of 1.25" x .120" dom tubing and laser cut 3/16" mounting brackets. Our laser cut mounting brackets are designed to work with OEM front sway bar bushings with the locator tabs and bushing to frame inserts, they will also work with the universal style aftermarket polyurethane bushings.
Available powder coated bright red or gloss black.
Note: Will not fit 1982 F-Body or 1989 Turbo Trans-Am

 

What front bar do you have? If you up the rear bar (even with the wonder bar) without upping the front, the car will be thrown out of balance. I know mine was when I bought my 25.4 and still had the somewhat large 34 up front.
I would just search here or LS1tech for rear bars. You could probably ge 2 or 3 for the cost of one from Spohn. But then you have to get bushings for all of them.

 

The front one is a 1in i dont know if they all came like that but i think that is a ok size. so i mean it wouldnt be worth just buying the rear and not the front to?
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i guess the 7/8 is a 22mm.

 

Yea, the 7/8 is roughly 22mm.
I don't think they made a 1 inch from bar. That's 25.4mm. That would be WAY too small to match to eiher the 22 or 25. the smallest I know of is like a 28 or so. Might be wrong though. I'd say yours has a 30 or 32. I don't think the 28s were still in use in 1990. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...bar+sizes+sway

 

It's pointless to waste money on sway bars before you replace the worn out springs and air shocks. If you actually do want the car to handle well, you gotta address those two issues first.

Once you do that, make sure your running a good wheel/tire combo, ie: not a 295 on a 15X7 wheel. Maybe you could pick up a set of factory 16X8 wheels and 245/50 tires for cheap?

 

Ok i did the front struts the other day and i thought it made a difference! Now i like the old style where its jacked up and big tires! Now the little walls ya that helps but looks like crap to me! I just want a car that will look how i want it to then be able to corner good not great. I mean just with my struts now i think i could keep up with my freind just with that. The only reason i am doing this is b/c my freinds go to this rally every year and i thought i would give it a shot. Their are alot of porches and i know i wont win but also dont want to look like a retarted. So i think i am going to get the wounder bar and rear sway bar then see how hard and how much money it is for springs!

 

Jeeze

 

How well do ur cars handle? If good wat hve you done?
thanks

 

The wonder bar will not serve as help for the front swy bar. Putting a larger rear bar on without a larger front bar will make the car's handling very unbalanced. Also, new shocks on the front and not on the rear will unbalance the car. I'm not saying the car won't feel different, but putting on random modifications won't get you the best results. Like I've already said, you have to know what modifications you want to do and what you want the car to do before you start spending, otherwise you'll be wasting money. If you want to beat your friend, you need to take the advice everyone's offering you. What shocks did you put on the car? I'd honestly reccomend that you just some KONIs and some god tires, then go follow your buddy. I think you'd be really happy. Like I said, the shocks control the suspension, and the tires are what hold you to the road. Without good shocks and tires, you're wasting your time.
You can see the modifications to my car in my signature and get a more detailed look by visiting my CarDomain (click my signature picture). And I'm pretty sure that my car would have no problems keeping up with your friends Jetta

 

If you want it to corner at least as good as it did stock, GET THE FREAKIN AIR SHOCKS OUTTA THERE! All you've done with those is degrade the car from stock form. Like it sitting high in the back you say?????? Then go spend $100 and replace your worn out stock springs with moog 5662/5665 front and rear. The 5665's sit plenty high, too high IMO. You'll probably like em.

If you're gonna swap sway bars, just go to the junk yard and get a 34 or 36 hollow front and matching rear. If you could just get the car back to what a stock IROC, Z28 or TA was back in the day, I think you'd have all you want. The moog springs, decent shocks/struts (tokico hp's at minimum) and 16X8 wheels w/ good tires would get you there.

 

First off... stop spending money. Do some research and/or ask a ton of questions after you understand the basics (read the stickies at the top of this board about Suspension 101). Then read 91_5.7_TPI's thread of how to make the car handle (the link has been posted at least twice in this thread). Follow the steps he has in there.

Just don't go buy something because you think it is an improvement. Do some research. Use the search button.

My plan:
- install SPOHN subframe connectors
- install KONI shocks
- replace strut mounts with HOTPART pieces
- replace springs (still can't decide on what kind)
- install LCA relocation brackets
- install UMI's "rear package" (rod/poly LCA and PHB combo)
- install a WS6/1LE swaybar set and poly bushings
- replace remaining worn out bushings
- install EDELBROCK STB #5226 (for TPI cars)
- replace torque arm (not sure on brand)
- upgrade brakes (not sure on setup)
- upgrade my tranny (700r4)
- begin engine mods/swap for 383 stroker (not happening anytime soon)

I only plan on doing everything above the line (about $1900 before tax and shipping)... that's when I think I'm going to run out of money (I have to start saving for college... being 17 sucks)

 

What is a good set of coil springs for my car?

 

Are you wanting to lower the car or just replace the factory springs with new springs?

 

it does matter any more. I just want some good performance springs but no lower than a in. Then i am going to buy the sway bar kit. With a wonder bar to.
kevin

 

Well, if you want to stay at stock height, I'd get some Moog replacement springs. Spohn carries them and so does Napa I believe.

As for lowering, you can get on of the off the shelf kits available, but your actual lowering will be hit or miss (how can they tell you what the car will be lowered when they only offer 1 set of springs for 10 years and two models of cars, option packages, differences in engine and trans, etc?). I have the Pro-Kit and like it from the performance stand point. I just wish the car was a little lower aesthetically.

If you have the money, a set of Weight Jacks will allow you to pick your spring rate and adjust ride height. I think their complete kit is about $460. This is the way I'm going when the time comes. But, I'm going to see about saving some money and make my own.

 

#1- replace wore out components
#2 - buy good tires, kind of hard with 15" or 16" wheels. Do a thorough search and you'll get plenty of opinions
#3 - get a good alignment
#4 - get good shocks/struts (koni's...bilsteins)

drive. drive. drive.

 

With the coils name a good performance set but dosent have to be anything special.

 

Until you ditch thge air shocks, everything else is pointless

If you want LOOKS, keep them.
If you want PERFORMANCE, ditch them.

Can't have performance with them.

Steppig up from 15s to 16s/17s/18s, will make a world of differece. If you have tall willowy 15" sidewalls, you can't get up to where it could be stock, if you upgraded the tires.

Lower profile, stiff sidewalls & good tread, can get a STOCK car to outhandle one will al sorts of other upgrades. ie: springs/shocks.control arms, etc.

Just ask a F Stock/E Street Prepared autocross guy. He'll tell you the same thing.

 

This may be a little off topic, but I can't find a lower profile tire than than 45 in a 16in size. I would like 255 for the width but I can't find anything in a lower profile for my set of autocross tires I plan on getting.

 

I don't think you'll find one. The options for 16s are getting less and less. The only really low profile tires you can find are for narrow wheels.

 

I've been pricing stock 16 inch and it's starting to get frustrating. even thought I'm looking more for strait line traction more than corning there still isn't much left. And the first thing you should do is put some SFC, it will help with corning but more important it will add protection when hard driving

 

i dont believe the vdub handles better.....cmon on now

 

Lol i'm telling you you cant beat him down a windy road. Them konis that he has on it with lowering it then 17in rims with the yokahama tires. He kept pulling away and trust me i was driving hard! Every turn i was squeeling bad lol.

 

I'm pretty sure I could hang with him.... if not dust him. But that's just me.

 

LOL you can try as hard as you can but dont bet MONEY! If your ever come in ohio around the dayton area tell me!
kevin

 

I never bet as it is. But, I don't see it being something I can't do. My car is lowered, has KONIs, has good and most likely wider tires, and I would say that our cars (the Jetta and my car) weight close to the same. No offense, just because you can't keep up with him doesn't mean much. An all stock 18 year old car with Gabriels and high profile tires that probably aren't up to the task of cornering all that hard compared to mine with the only thing that's not been upgraded or replaced is the steering box and a-arm bushings (have them setting the car trailer), KONIs, and a decent set of low profile performance tires isn't really much of a comparison. And I would guess that the roads I'm used to make the roads there look like a warped 2x4. Not knocking your car here, but this is the kinda thing I've been building my car for for the past 4 years.

 

If anybody ever wants to compare their car's hndling to another car, just find your local autocross club.

Compare your best track time to the car you want to compare.

 

That's not really a fair comparison unless the car you are comparing to has the exact same mods as the other car. And driver's skill plays as large a role as the car/mods do. Too many variables. Unless it is the actual car compared to the actual car on the same track.