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Lowering 101

Old 01-13-2012, 07:44 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by potterc32 View Post
I am wondering about the adjustable torque arm and front alignment. I can handle the LCARBS and panhard bar and springs. But are the torque arms really necessary? I don't do much racing, just a little hot roddin here and there. Is pinion angle going to effect my car much as a daily driver and not a race car?

And I'm with the last guy, wouldn't a good alignment take car of the camber issues up front?

I want to use factory style shocks/struts.

I would be using the Eibach pro series-- 1.6 in front, and 1.3 inches lower in rear

-I think you'd want to worry about correct pinion angle more with a daily driver because it will cause noise under loads and possibly premature bearing failure. With a race car you are setting it to compensate for axle windup.

-You have a limited amount of camber that you can adjust to make up for the lowering springs. You should be okay with the pro series. I've had my car up on the rack after I put in the eibach pro kit and was able to put camber, caster, and toe within spec.
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:50 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

i was wondering if there is a thread on how to install the bags on a 3rd gen fbody. if anyone out here can tell me what they used to mount the bags on the frame rails and how they did it that would be awsome as i have a bag kit i got off my brother. it was his spare set up from his s10 he ended up not using. any help would be appreciated. i was thinking using bolt in bag cups would be easiest just have to drill a hole through the sub frame. let me know what you guys think. thanks for the help
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:39 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by 91slpz View Post
i was wondering if there is a thread on how to install the bags on a 3rd gen fbody. if anyone out here can tell me what they used to mount the bags on the frame rails and how they did it that would be awsome as i have a bag kit i got off my brother. it was his spare set up from his s10 he ended up not using. any help would be appreciated. i was thinking using bolt in bag cups would be easiest just have to drill a hole through the sub frame. let me know what you guys think. thanks for the help

nevermind i finally found the info i was looking for and the only thing i could use from this set up is the air management.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:03 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

If i buy the hotchkis handling kit do i have to use the provided springs?
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:59 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by Trevmust View Post
If i buy the hotchkis handling kit do i have to use the provided springs?
I don't think it is necessary. I believe the lowered springs are just provided to improve handling.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

K cuz from the way ppl talk about it, it sounds like lowering is just a pain in the keister.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:15 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

If Sportlines aren't a racing spring, you've lost me! They are one of the highest rates you can find, and barely friendly to even Konis. Can you cite this dialog with Eibach?
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:48 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

Hi,

I've been searching the board, but didn't find the answer...

Anybody tried to fit Vogtlands or Eibachs on V6?

Previous owner of my car cut original springs too much, so when I lift the car, they fall out (well, allmost).
I'm from Europe, so it's hard to get any springs, even stock... :S Only Vogtlands are on german ebay... The shipping from US costs more than springs...

Any advice?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:27 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Your V6 car is identical in every way to V8 car. The only change would be the stance.

I've not heard of anyone putting the 'sport' spring or struts on a v6 car. Maybe try a Turbo Trans Am site (1989 TTA). The ride of sport spring and sport lines is quite stiff! But controlled. You may be in for a shock if you go with them. Factory V6 setup is soft compared to stock WS6. If I were you... Maybe consider the 'touring' spring and shock setup from Eibach and Koni and cut fronts for stance.

If you do lower, you should strongly consider Adujustable tie rod ends. You can raise the pivot point on the spindle with them to help bumpsteer.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:50 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Thanks for the answer.

I've had hard suspension on my cars... so I know what is hard... But this... I'd say it has no suspesion (well, maybe 1,5 inches). The front is so fu**ed up, that the tire rubs on the inner fender (i don't know the exact english word for it) - and yes, the plastic fenders were allready taken out..

After searching the board I think i'll try Vogtland's as they are the only available/affordable option... And we'll see from there.

Stance is secondary problem right now. I'd like some more drivability first.

I'll report.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:54 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

I've spent alot of time reading the suspension board and reading the search result threads that come up about eibach springs as those were my first choice and i couldn't decide between the pro-kit and sport lines. So many mixed opinions (although all very creditable) I was less sure than when i started(and ended up researching lots of brands) Of the eibach people it seems that those with the pro-kit all love the ride but the complaints are "its not low enough", or "I didn't even notice a difference". and some pics IMHO supported these statements. The sport line people are a mixed crowd, they either love them or hate them. the complaints i read were mostly about them being too low, or too soft in the rear or "kept hitting the bump stops". I called eibach and got the spring rates (they are on here but sometimes its best for me to hear it from the source).Here is what they gave me.
Prokit front:714 linear, Rear 109-177 progressive
Sportline front:700 linear, Rear: 80-137 progressive

So trying to stick just to eibach springs here, the question i would like to propose to ya'll is; If your going to use eibachs wouldn't the best option be to buy the prokit and cut them down to get a lower ride height as that would keep the spring rates up and and eliminate (or at least improve) the usual complaints about the sport lines?

Because I REALLY like to autoX my nice weather cruiser i didn't get the eibachs cause of this dilemma and the progressive rear springs. It took me a several weeks of debating and researching several brands, and considering several different combos from MOOG IROC springs cut down to mixing and matching eibach fronts with Global west S40 rears (190 lb linear) to finally break down and spend the big bucks for ground control weight jacks. They were everything i was looking for (except the price), all linear springs, spring rates i want, and any ride height i want.

I don't claim to have any expertise i just wanted to share my experience so that hopefully it may help somebody else. The "best" springs depends on what purpose you car serves for you. Eibach is a quality product and may be perfect for your 3rd gen. If you ask ten people on here what "the best springs are" you'll get ten different answers.

PS I did look into coil overs and between the fact that that part of the car wasn't made to support the weight and the fact it prevents wider wheels/tires, I decided against them very quickly for my build.

Last edited by plum92_camaro; 03-27-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:46 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

So plum92_camaro, did the ground control weight jacks you went with require the struts that they ask about when you go tovthe website? I was considering the weight jacks as well but saw that they asked about shocks and struts that cost $750+ alone and that kinda made me shy away from them. What is your set up of? You seem happy with what you've got lol
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:52 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by TKR 88 GTA View Post
So plum92_camaro, did the ground control weight jacks you went with require the struts that they ask about when you go tovthe website? I was considering the weight jacks as well but saw that they asked about shocks and struts that cost $750+ alone and that kinda made me shy away from them. What is your set up of? You seem happy with what you've got lol
If you're going to run the weight jacks you'll want to upgrade your struts and strut mounts to spherical bearing, raised mounts and good quality adjustable struts/shock. Stock or old struts and shocks are junk by now and should be replaced immediately regardless of the car's ride height or intended purpose.

With the weight jacks, el grande cheapo struts and shocks don't do a good job of dampening with a high spring rate and wear out quickly, especially if the car is cranked down to sit low.

Weight jacks don't really "require" any special strut or strut mount per say, as they fit in exactly like the factory springs, but I wouldn't run them without decent condition struts/ shocks period and I wouldn't do anything radical with the height or spring rate without using high quality dampers like Tokico Illuminas, Koni Reds/ Yellows, or KYB AGX's... which is the main purpose of getting them. The weight jacks in themselves are pricey so the only way they're really justified is if you're tuning the car carefully for top notch handling or if you're going to run a crazy stance, both of which require good struts and shocks. Otherwise, skip it, buy the best quality dampers your budget will allow and some off the shelf drop springs and call it a day.

Last edited by midnightfirews6; 03-26-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:01 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

way better answer than what i was gonna say.

Well i'm defintitely excited about my set up but i don't know how happy i am yet because i haven't installed anything yet due to the longer than normal iowa winter. Like i said i'm no expert but i did a lot of reading to select my parts and i'm continuing to read to learn to set them up properly.

Last edited by plum92_camaro; 03-27-2013 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:09 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Thanks midnightfire! A lot of good info and I guess that just steered me away from the weight jacks. My car is a daily driver for the most part and as of right now the car is sitting with its left side sitting a good amount lower than the right side plus the front is higher than the rear because of the new engine set up that lightened up the front end a good amount. So I definitely need new shocks/struts and springs. But I didnt want to lower my car at the same time which got me interested in the weight jacks but im not gonna use the car for any hair pin turning or anything like that just a street and probly strip time once a month. So in that case ill probly just go with an eibach set up with idk what struts and shocks yet lol

And plum92 I feel ya on the longer than normal winter over here in colorado its ridiculous, snow was suppose to stop and then we ended up getting 8" this past weekend lol ive been wanting to do some stuff but nope lol
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:24 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by TKR 88 GTA View Post
Thanks midnightfire! A lot of good info and I guess that just steered me away from the weight jacks. My car is a daily driver for the most part and as of right now the car is sitting with its left side sitting a good amount lower than the right side plus the front is higher than the rear because of the new engine set up that lightened up the front end a good amount. So I definitely need new shocks/struts and springs. But I didnt want to lower my car at the same time which got me interested in the weight jacks but im not gonna use the car for any hair pin turning or anything like that just a street and probly strip time once a month. So in that case ill probly just go with an eibach set up with idk what struts and shocks yet lol
Yeah the Eibach springs are great! Probably the most popular choices and most people seem to like them. Like I said, shoot for the best shocks and struts you can afford since you usually get what you pay for there. I was dead set on Koni so I rode around on some 20 year old Monroes for a couple of years until I had the cash (Going to college, having a girlfriend who was an expensive date, and working for slave wages sucked!)

Originally Posted by plum92_camaro View Post
way better answer than what i was gonna say.

Well i'm defintitely excited about my set up but i don't know how happy i am yet because i haven't installed anything yet due to the longer than normal iowa winter. Like i said i'm no expert but i did a lot of reading to select my parts and i'm continuing to read to learn to set them up properly.
Originally Posted by TKR 88 GTA View Post
And plum92 I feel ya on the longer than normal winter over here in colorado its ridiculous, snow was suppose to stop and then we ended up getting 8" this past weekend lol ive been wanting to do some stuff but nope lol
Same here in Indiana... did all my research, got all the parts for lowering, had the car out for spring break finally and was JUST about to put all the new stuff on at my buddy's place and then it snowed and they put down salt everywhere and back under the cover it went.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:43 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

They have magchloride crap up here that builds corrosion here on everything rims hubs anything aluminum lol my cars my daily too lol I have to research from the struts and shocks available someone told me kyb is a good bang for your buck lol do you already have the koni's lol and midnightfire I feel ya on that last part. I gotta a girlfriend that has no job and a one year old, on top of paying back my college loans on a 13.50/hour job that only gives 30hrs a week lol plus side babies give you a ton on tax returns lmao time to give the gta some much needed attention lol
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:01 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by dgrejtest View Post

After searching the board I think i'll try Vogtland's as they are the only available/affordable option... And we'll see from there.

I'll report.
I've finally put new shocks and Vogtlands (for V8) on the car. They fit V6 perfectly and the stance is great.

Sorry for bad pic, but this is how it looks:


The car finally drives how it should.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:22 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Just wanted to give you a heads up on lowereing. Even an inch drop will change the geometry of your suspension and require re-alignment of the front and one that isn't mentioned often is the rear lower control arm angle.
You may not notice much of a difference on a "normally" driven car, but if you do burn outs or race it you will find that after lowering you can develop a nasty wheel hop issue. This is bad because it can break parts, like the tailshaft housing of the transmission. I personally beat the snot out of mine and never had a problem until I put another person in the car with me. I just wanted his opinion on how the car ran (never had it on the track) The person with me was my Ford Fan uncle. To make it short, I tached it up and poped the clutch and out of nowhere my car started a violent wheelhop off the line. Thanks to others post, I identified the issue and determined that the 1" lowering springs combined with more angle from the additional 200 lbs of passenger changed the lower control arm angle enough to induce the wheelhop. Apparently these cars are known for this and just to be sure its gets fixed I ordered a heavy duty track arm and transmission crossmember.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:32 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by Firechicken355 View Post
just to be sure its gets fixed I ordered a heavy duty track arm and transmission crossmember.
What you need are LCARBs, not a heavy duty track arm and tranny crossmember.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:55 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by blacksunshine'91 View Post
What you need are LCARBs, not a heavy duty track arm and tranny crossmember.
blacksunshine'91
I neglected to mention the relocation brackets. I have those also, but not installed yet. Others have stated the correct lca angle is 3/4" to 1" drop in angle front to rear? But lets face it, the stock LCA's are flimsy stamped sheet metal stampings and so is the torque arm. Ok for a daily driver, but way too much flex for some serious performance. I beat mine like a redheaded stepchild.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:09 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

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Old 12-26-2013, 01:17 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

FYI, the link in the first post for the Racecraft drop spindles is not working anymore. The correct link:

http://www.racecraft.com/index.php?m...dex&cPath=7_13
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:20 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\ View Post
the rear control arm is supposed to be about level at ride height> the LCARB's help correct this after the car is lowered, since after lowering, the front of the lca is too low compaired to the rear, so you lower the rear mount to compensate.

this is not considered "camber" or "caster", those are only adjustable in the front.

So in other words I wouldn't have the LCA problem if I lower the ride height evenly front and back, compared to having the front slightly lower than the rear.
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:35 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

great info in here
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:33 AM
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Old 01-11-2015, 07:21 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

Is there a 2" drop spindle that uses the OEM brakes available? The Racecraft spindle require adaptor and different discs.
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Old 05-25-2015, 03:16 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

So, ive had some belltech drop spindles sitting around for about 5 years now. Since i just bought a house ill have space to actually start working on my car again and had a few questions. Is there anythign in particular i should look out for when installing these? Based on the research i had done in the past and recent searches, everything should be pretty straight forward and drop in. They also work with the stock brakes as long as i didnt miss anything.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:41 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

My silver 1985 Camaro IROC-Z with Eibach Sportlines lowering springs. 16" original wheels. Equipped with KYB shocks and a QA1 adjustable panhard bar. The perfect drop, not too much but not too little. Love how it looks and rides.





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Old 01-15-2016, 03:19 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

My Fire mist Red 1987 Trans Am with Eibach Sportlines lowering springs. 16" original wheels. Equipped with stock shocks and a UMI adjustable panhard bar, Subframe connectors, and 383 Stroker. The perfect drop, not too much but not too little. I to love the way it sits and rides.
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Old 01-15-2016, 03:22 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Forgot the Pictures.
Attached Thumbnails Lowering 101-img_7489.jpg   Lowering 101-img_7490.jpg   Lowering 101-img_7491.jpg   Lowering 101-img_7492.jpg   Lowering 101-img_7493.jpg  

Lowering 101-img_7494.jpg  
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:34 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by nicksavio707 View Post
My silver 1985 Camaro IROC-Z with Eibach Sportlines lowering springs. 16" original wheels. Equipped with KYB shocks and a QA1 adjustable panhard bar. The perfect drop, not too much but not too little. Love how it looks and rides.

That is the stance I'm going for with my 86 IROC.
Did you go with the relocation brackets for the lower control arms? Are you running the stock lower control arms too?
Love your hard top..
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:44 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

I'm working with BMR to perfect some new Lowering Springs:

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Old 03-12-2016, 06:13 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

Dude, how tall are you?
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:49 AM
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Re: Lowering 101

Lol 6'1" usually T-TOPs help, actually going to a racing event tomorrow and upset to hear it might rain, I will have to lay back to fit lol but playing slip and slide will be fun
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:13 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Wow, I was thinking like 6'7", or something.

Get some Fiero seat brackets.

You'll be amazed at how much lower you'll sit
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:50 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

Will Eibach Sportlines be to low for a 92 Z28 with 20" wheels?
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:23 PM
  #88  
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Re: Lowering 101

Ok so, two things I am trying to find out that I didn't see.

1. When lowering, are shaved or smaller bump stops required?

2. If adjustable lower control arms are going to be used, are the relocation brackets still required?
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:36 PM
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Re: Lowering 101

No to both. The lowering springs are usually stiffer, and don't allow that v much suspension travel. I have yet to hit the bump stops, I'm lowered about 1.7 inches in front and 1.5 in back.

The relocation brackets are meant to solve issues with hop. Not necessary, but if you lower it and start to experience a lot of wheel spin, the brackets could help.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:50 PM
  #90  
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Re: Lowering 101

Any updates on drop spindles? $800 a pair from raceline seems a bit over kill. My 1 ton dually drop spindles are nearly half that price
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:17 AM
  #91  
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Re: Lowering 101

One good thing to add is that you may need a bump steer kit when lowering them. Seems like once you lower it more than an inch the car likes to be tossed around the highway if there are any ruts or uneven spots in the road. A little scary the first few times it happens.
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Old 03-26-2018, 03:38 PM
  #92  
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Re: Lowering 101

I am the second owner on my car and the original owner put lowering springs on it. I had it in the air the other day and the springs had a code 3801.301. Any idea what springs they are? I assume they are Eibach as they currently have a 3801-140 spring. Is the 3801.301 an out-of-production Eibach spring? Any info on this (e.g. spring rate, lowering height)? I couldn't find anything online and I'd be curious to know. Thanks
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Old 12-29-2018, 07:58 PM
  #93  
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Re: Lowering 101

Originally Posted by Jeff TX View Post
I am the second owner on my car and the original owner put lowering springs on it. I had it in the air the other day and the springs had a code 3801.301. Any idea what springs they are? I assume they are Eibach as they currently have a 3801-140 spring. Is the 3801.301 an out-of-production Eibach spring? Any info on this (e.g. spring rate, lowering height)? I couldn't find anything online and I'd be curious to know. Thanks
https://eibach.com/us/i-7388-pro-kit...4-springs.html

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