If you are struggling with what you think might be the best way to spend your money for PERFORMANCE? your NEXT mod? your BEST GAIN PER DOLLAR SPENT? (Edit- Note highlighted phrases)

Lets use this post to ask all TGO members for that next suggestion.

"Rules"- questions: List car and all changes already performed from factory specs including tires.
(ex- 1986 GTA, 17x9 BBS wheels, BFG KD g-force tires, koni shocks, Umi SFC's, BMR tqarm, TDS wonderbar)
"Rules"- to anyone answering a persons questions: give the part to buy or what to do- BUT ALSO BACK THAT WITH A STATEMENT WHY you recommend that.

This should give alot of incite as for what and why people should do things next when it comes to modifications.

 

hmmmm kind of what I was looking for, I ve been researching for quite a while and kind of have some stuff picked out.

My car is a 1988 Iroc Z28 and it is bone stock. I bought it off a woman who owned it for ten years.
I do not want to lower the car I like the way it sits I don't want to be scraping underneath when ever I pass over a bump or something.
I like the Iroc mags it came with. 15 inchers
It has a wonder bar (factory)
34 mm front and 23 mm rear sway bars.
I am losing the 2 73 drum brake non posi rear to a 86 3.42 disc brake set up which I am 3/4 finished.

This car is my baby and I drive it when ever I come back from my work trips. But I don't mind too much of a rough ride.
I don't want to set it up for dragging although I may take it to the track once in a while.
BUT I do like hammering it in the back roads in the Rockies. And I do like leaving ahole bmw's and suv's who seem to think they can keep up with me in the curved off ramps when I exit the high ways. It gives me great satisfaction to leave em in the dust.

I have a 350 I will dump in this winter and its been semi raced built. IE its missing a good cam and intake and larger tbi but it will do for now. It is built tho.

So here is a link to my wish list on spohn and maybe you pro's have something different in mind, this list is still in the process and I just started it today.

http://www.spohn.net/wishlists/?action=view&wlid=1777

Oh yeah my wife drives the car sometimes so bear that in mind, but that may change when the 350 goes in..........(I hope)

I hope I followed the rules and thanks a very bunch for any input.

Jay

 

No current tire brand listed or condition. So based on what you said the car is bone stock assuming this is shocks also?

Buy the front end rebuild kit

then if you have the funds, also do in this order- Koni Yellows, and also if you can afford to then buy the strut mounts to go with the strut install and then your alignment money will be well spent and not have to be redone several times as you if you buy these things individually.

Dean.

ps- I will edit the original post- Obviously I am misunderstood what I mean by "what should I do next". It is meant for the person looking for best performance in all out cornering. It is meant to give opinions on the very next purchase so the car handles better. That single purchase could be simply buying a better aftermarket part than the one you already have IF that part will make you go faster on lets say and autox course or such equivilant spirited driving, or even road race time trial (only suspension related, not engine). It may be better you replace new KYB gas adjust shocks with Konis rather than keep the KYB's and add SFC's..etc (these are the type of opions that will be suggested to make the car handle better for the money you will spend. You may even want to list wnat you have and what you are saving up to buy next- that might be easier to understand. I will tell you if I think it is worth it or not, or what I would do next if I had your car.

 

This post might not work. but let me give an example of what I have seen in people's philosophy of purchases.

Lets say someone has $800 to spend.

Most people would think they can get the best bang for their buck by buying several less expensive components on slightly inferior quality rather than one very good expensive product.
Most would buy $300 shocks and struts, $200 on SFC's, and 200 on LCA's, and $100 on panhard rod.

I would spend all $800 on the best shocks I could buy and I guarantee my choice would beat theirs if both were stock and had the same tires.

Its the best bang for your buck. the best PERFORMANCE for your DOLLAR spent. just like HP per DOLLAR, This is HANDLING per DOLLAR.

 

Tires are the stock size. The are aurora brand, some what similar to sears road handlers.
Actually I was thinking of doing the whole package over winter.

I definitly need the front end, and am going to do at minimum this winter SFB's, struts and shocks, strut mounts (mine are waaay shot) springs (moog mine are sagging), front end and polys all around.

I've read on the rear lca's that poly can cause binding in cornering and accelleration so I figure an LCA with one poly and a delsperin bushing would work.

Its kind of difficult digging up info one springs and shocks everything is geared towards lowering.

I was thinking of spending minimum this winter 1500 on suspension to 3000 this winter.

 

Alright, my car is a 91 RS with a built 3.1 v6. For suspenion, about the only thing I've done is boxed the LCAs. My thoughts are rebuilding the front end and replacing bushings, next. Should I go with Energy Suspension or make my own delrin bushings (since I work at a machine shop)? Delrin may transfer a lot of noise, right? As for the front end, anything I need to watch out for? Parts that may appear to be ok but probably aren't? This is going to be done on a pretty tight budget. Shocks, struts, and eventually springs need to be done. I saw a little while ago were someone had posted asking about some adjustable shocks from Summit (I think is where it was)...I don't remember where that post was, but any opinions on them? For tires, I've got some cheap Futuras on the front right now (as I used to do more drag racing than road race stuff, I wasn't as concerned about front grip) and some 235/60/15 Dunlops on the back. Both need to be changed, I know. And, I'll probably powder coat some parts in the garage as I go to make it pretty.
Edit: also want to do LCARBs pretty soon.

 

Another v6.
Not the best stuff under my car, but it's what I could afford on an enlisted military budget.
Edelbrock non-adjustable PHB and LCA, PST bushings all around, KYB gas-a-just and GR2 strut/shock combo, 245/45/17 Futura Ultra Z's from Pepboys on 17 by 8 Torq Thrust IIs. I like how it handles compared to stock, but I'm looking for a bit more.

My goal isn't ultimate handling, but noticeably better than stock on the street without spending a ton. I'd like to lower it 2 inches, so I'm thinking Sportlines. I'll need LCA brackets, but I'm wondering if I should just go with drop spindles instead? Or is there something else I'm missing?

 

All three of you are missing the format of my post. best next performance mod for all out handling.

Duderjay, I answered yours already with the front end rebuild kit. You sound like you need balljoints, tierods, bushings, etc. All normal maintenance wear items first.

Alan (Am91-ps, hey, I comfirmed your facebook request), pretty much the same for you on bushings and bracing since you machine and faricte. The more you can do yourself the better and yes go with everything Delrin if you can. Then when it comes to having all the tierods, balljoints, and bushings finished and in good shape, then the first performance mod would be top spend as much as you can on shocks and struts (I think everyone knows I am a Koni Yellow fan (A good bag for the buck- Koni's are well worth the major expense- personally though, my next 3rdgen would have even alot more expensive Varistruts, but most do not go extreme like I do. Koni's are pretty much needed for above average handling and are a far cry better than Tokico Illumina's or Bilsteins. Bilsteins are for touring in my book, so are the Koni Reds).

Jensen, Your bushing are good. I must honestly say what you are looking for is the Koni's. You can put all the other parts you want on your car and I will strongly say waste your money doing so and they will not matter if you are not controlling your chassis. Those shocks and struts are not doing the job nor will they ever. I would save $700 and but Koni's before I would save $1 for anything else.
Please look at my example I did on how I would spend $800 dollars.

Guys, these are not the real answers I was looking to get into. This is basic remedial stuff. I can not help anyone until they are past the part of ...
1)a GOOD basic found, no major rust on frame
2) All basic maintinence performed- no weak links such as bad ball joints, bad tierods, bad steering box, worn bushings, etc. If something ion the car is really bad, even the stock strut mounts have slop in that bushing so severely they are movng up and down visually when you bounce on the front of the car? then replace all those worn parts FIRST before we get into perfomance purchases. OTHER WISE, THINGS JUST WILL NOT HELP WHEN YOU HAVE BASIC WEAK LINKS.
3)GOOD shocks and struts (again, I mean Koni's. I have explained why Koni's are "good", they have better quality internals than lets say a KYB and they help eliminate "slop" between compression and rebound movements with that better quailty machined internal. Quality costs money.
4) Buy the best tires you can put on a car. Any onther purchase other than shocks is NOT GOING TO MATTER when you slide accross the asphaft and hit a telephone pole duw to poor taction. Sorry , those SFC's aren't going to help if you bought them but had crappy tires.

I hope everyone reading this is getting my point of this post with #4

Dean

 

If "I" bought a 3rd gen again right now? I would look first at the struts and the strut mounts- THE VERY FIRST THING.

If it had Sphon, Hortpart, or Racecraft steel soild bearing strut mounts? they would stay. If anything else like even the Alumunim HMS ones I had? They would go. I getting ready to replace mine with Hotpart strut mounts when my Camaro car went byebye (in the divorce) my HMS mounts were ggetting bad from aluminum fatigue. Anyways, even if a new car I would buy already had brnad new stock strut mounts? I would still replace them immediately. I would buy both strut and strutmounts fist together and that would be my very first purchase. Even befire SFC's, befre tires and wheels, before anything. I need to first control the chassis and steering response no matter what the tires, springs, ride height, or anything else. These will work with anything I do in the future.

My choice today would be Racecraft strut mounts and Varistrut custom valved struts. They did not offer these when I built my car several years back. Back then I went to the best avaliable at that time, HMS mounts and Koni Yellows.

 

I like the looks of the hotpart strut mounts! Not a bad price, either. Those are on the list!

 

Buy some books and a welder - knowledge and fabrication skills are worth more than any aftermarket performance part you can buy. Not only that but you will save money too!

 

Ahhhhh.... I think I get'cha.
Since I'm looking for just better than stock, rather than ultimate performance, instead of my shotgun approach with decent bolt ons, the best way is to buy the best shocks/struts on the market, badass tires, and stop there, right? That would probably out-handle my current setup, and probably cost less too.

Looks like koni yellows are next on my list. Thanks.

 

Have you come across anyone in a competitive environment using the Varistrut units yet? Preferably in a similar class chassis? I haven't heard anything on any of the various forums I frequent.

Whether it be Autocross or Roadrace the Alston stuff doesn't seem to even exist among conversation. Not discounting the fact they may very well be nice pieces, but if nobody is using them, their may be a reason behind it.

I'm not sure if you've stumbled across this brand yet, but Vorshlag have seemingly been making a name for themselves as of late. Though I honestly haven't been paying enough attention to know which F-body racers are running them. Though if I do stumble across more information I will surely try to get a first hand account and comparisons to other units they have used.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...33161f2c4a6190

 

I do not know anyone that has used them, However they look just like most other full race aluminum body shocks I use in racing (Carrera, QA1, Afco, Proshocks) and can tell on their website they have good quality internals.

1) 4130 chromemoly construction. Lowered design, 2" shorter than a standard strut. large 7/8" shaft, not 3/4".

2) Custom valving available. Inhanced fluid control, larger internal valving. Inhaced low piston speed sensitivity 0-4" speed usage (Great low speed damper)

3)Double adjustable options for tayloring valving ranges after custom valve range is ordered. -In other words, they are custom valved tothe range you desire, bu you can still fine tune the suspension quickly yourself without having to send them back guesing just how much more or less (you want an example? -do I go 1 click up on compression and 3 clicks down on rebound for the next rebuild or leave the compression alone and go a spring 25lb spring rubber and go 2 or 3 clicks- Double adjustable gives me on call adjustment to fine tune the chassis immediately and see what the results yeild- no waiting for a fixed valve rebuild only to find out you went too far with an adjutment to only send it back and have it put back to a previous spec at a price and time loss)

these struts look very well made.

I thought they were aluminum and have stated that a few time incorrectly. The rest of there line is aluminum, but I guess the strut being a major suspension mount point is best to have steel mountings to the spindle so as not to have the fasteners loosen on the bolt face over time.

 

Ok, since I'm probably more of the person you are expecting to post in here...

1987 IROC-Z
The car weighs 3,336 pounds without me in it
Stock 16"x8" IROC wheels with BFG G-Force TA KDWS 245/50/16
Koni SA shocks/struts
Eibach Pro-kit springs
J&M (Hotpart) strut mounts
aggressive street alignment (not best for track and not best for street...)
Edelbrock 3 point strut tower brace
Spohn subframe connectors
UMI lower control arm relocation brackets
UMI adjustable lower control arms (rod/poly)
UMI adjustable panhard bar (rod/poly)
Stock 36mm front swaybar with poly bushings
Stock 21mm rear swaybar with poly bushings
Stock "wonderbar"
Stock torque arm
Stock A-arms
Stock K-member
Stock upper panhard bar brace
LS1 front brake upgrade with Hawk HP+ brake pads
Stock 10.5" rear disk brakes with Hawk HPS brake pads
Braided brake lines
LS1 master cylinder
3" aluminum driveshaft

I use my car as a daily driver, but I also do a lot of autocross events every year. The pro-kit springs feel soft in the front so I would like to do weight jacks but unless I find a great deal on them, I'm thinking I'll wait until next Fall. I'm also considering lowering the panhard bar so I will probably have to go with a larger rear swaybar (maybe throw my 24 back on there) and maybe even stiffer springs. My tires need to be replaced. I plan on getting some 17"x9" wheels and R-compound tires for the next autocross season.

Keep in mind that I'm only 18 and I'm a poor college student so I can't afford a $2k brake upgrade that weighs next to nothing, or a fancy aluminum rear end housing to save ~30-40 pounds or unsprung weight.

So, what should I do next? Any recommendations? Do you need any more info?

Thanks,
Mike

 

Don't feel the need to hold out for new ground control units. Be resourceful and you can piece together a weight jack setup fairly cheap. I went from pro-kit springs to 850lb fronts and the car rides better.

 

I know Ground Control weight jacks are expensive, but even piecing together circle track parts will cost me ~$150 for just the rears... probably the same for the fronts. I guess I'm hoping to do the swap for ~$200 or so. I'm thinking eBay is my only hope.

My uncle used to do that oval dirt track racing with those late model cars or something so maybe he knows of some cheap parts...

 

Hey,

I have a few things i'd like to add to my car to handle better... I think i've built a good base for handling (except that i have a rubbing problem, which i will fix asap).

My current Setup:
New front steering rebuilt kit (tie rods, centerlink, idler arm, etc.)
UMI tie rod adjusters
TDS wonderbar
MAC subframe connectors (inner)
SPOHN subframe connectors (outer)
Hotpart LCA (poly)
Hotpart PH bar (poly)
UMI TQ arm (poly)
Tokico BLUE HP shocks and struts
Tokico strut mounts (stock type replacement)
Poly bushings and endlinks for stock 34mm+24mm swaybars
MAC 2 pt strut tower brace
UMI LCARB (weld ins)
UMI a-arms (poly bushings + moog ball joint)
new front and rear rubber spring insolators
MOOG 5665 and 5662 front and rear IROC replacement springs
new poly rear bump stops

What I want to get/replace:
hotpart strut mounts
strut mount retainers 87-92 style
spohn adjustable standard duty TQ arm (delrin sphere joint)
Spohn adjustable lower control arm (delsphere pivot joint rear/poly body combo)
Spohn adjustable panhard bar (delsphere pivot joints)
Koni Yellow (adjustable shocks and struts)
Racecraft Drop Spindles 2"
Cut rear MOOG replacement springs to be at 0.5" higher than front (slight rake)
SPOHN adjustable caster bolt kit
Rebuild steering box (heard Lee's performance does this?)
Install Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-d3's (245/50/16) on stock 16x8" iroc rims
GET AGGRESSIVE STREET ALIGNMENT (-1 LR camber / 4.5L & 5.0R Caster / 0.10 LR Toe In)

Anything I should know about buying any of these items? I know it's a good 3k for all this (atleast) so it would be good to know your opinions on these... I use my car about 2-4 times per week in the summer only and in dry weather only (no rain or snow). Not a daily driver but i do drive to work and i DO love to carve corners as much as possible... Possibly more than even going in a straight line... Handling is very important for me.

Thanks,
-Marc

 

What next?
current set up:
KYB AGX front and rear
Hot Part strut mounts
Hotchkiss 1" springs 600lb / 110-140lb prog.
poly A-arm, cntrl arm, trans, sway bar bushings
stock wonder bar
36m/25mm solid sway bars
all new replacement front end steering parts
Spohn SAI bolt kit + - 1.75*
T56/97' 10bolt disc rear
13"Z06 C5 front brakes(flynbuy performance)
braided lines/slotted Xdrilled rotors front
Hawks HPS F+R
82' camaro Glass hood
trunk batt. (optima red)
carbed 383
spec III clutch
17X9.5 Z06 on all 4 with Hankook Ventus 275 /40/ 17s
2.25" front spacers possibly to be 1.5"-1.75" with big brakes(+.5 track)will check backspacing when brakes are on
Alignment to be, Caster Camber Toe Total
(deg) (deg) (in)
L R L R
Hard Street +5 +5.5 -1 -1 3/32
suggestions on align. helpfull!! I plan to drive to autoX events and dont care about comfort
all else not listed is stock for an 88' IROC
Im looking to handle I allready have the GO and STOP I just need to turn.I can weld and have access to steel so I was thinking SFC , RAB, USB and upper steering braces next.

 

I will definately say I agree on chassis stiffening- BUT, you had better check rules on whatever autox group you want to run to make sure the car is legal.

Without autox legality concerns? definately SFC's to strengthen chassis flex. You will need to decrease the rear swaybar size with SFC's.

 

I think Ill just be doing time trials. I have never been to an event so I do not know how they are run.Just want to fool around with my car first to get a feel for racing.
I was thinking 19mm on the rear bar with 1 or 2 clicks from full hard on the rear KYBs

 

I know this thread is old, but i'd love some advice on what to do next. Vetruck, thanks for all the information you have put on this website. keep provin em wrong! (haha)

1986 Iroc stock Iroc wheels with Nitto NT-01 R compound tire. 245 50 16.
Racecraft 2'' drop spindles
Ground Control Weight Jacks 750 front 175 rear springs.
Lower control arm relocation brackets
Spohn del rin adjustable panhard bar
Spohn del rin torque arm crossmember mount
Spohn SFC's. chassis squared before welding in
Koni Yellows
Wilwood 4 piston fronts 2 piece aluminum hat rotors
PBR 12'' EBC rotors and pads rear
Racecraft caster camber plates/spherical strut mount

what next? Thanks!

Oh..and the car is not daily driven, just taken out on weekends to enjoy Lake Tahoes awesome roads and would like to get into autocross/road course

 

3pt Strut tower brace. I liked the Edelbrock unit but when I installed mine I boxed the tower brackets because I found they were flexing fore and aft from the firewall support load. Just my 2 cents. You will notice the rear end tighten up on corner entrance and the chassjs feel much more predictavle under hard braking corner entrance.

Good luck and happy spending.

 

awesome. Thanks for the response. I will be picking one up

 

I will test this out. Hopefully with the right information. I was looking to do an LS swap, but decided to get the suspension completed and some seat time before I go down the LS path.

1989 IROC, 17X9 10-spoke SS wheels, Kumho 712 275 tires, KYB struts & shocks, adj. PHB, adj. LCA, LCA brackets, cut factory springs, MAC SFCs, adj. strut tower mounts, STB, stock front end steering rebuild, factory wonderbar, factory sway bars, factory torque arm. That is all I can think of.

I was thinking of going down the weight jack path, my car sits really low right now and I would like to get it up off the ground a little. The other thing I was thinking of was upgrading my shocks and struts. The sway bar bushings and a-arm bushings do not look that bad, so I am not sure if I really want/need to replace them. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

I replaced everything with del sphere bushings where i could, and the rest, poly (except motor mounts, and tranny mount is prothane).

I would suggest looking into the rag joint as well as they are usually worn out at this point. Also, Koni yellow shocks are better (apparently the best). MAC sfcs are good but hang low so if you are too lowered, you might scrape everywhere.. Mine don't but i'm at stock height.. I also have Spohn SFC's as well... Two sets will stiffen up the car even more than one... Also, i would recommend doing ur engine/tranny/rear-end first and then doing suspension afterward because the suspension is tuned based on the weight of the vehicle...

 

Thanks for the reply. I am planning on running the 305/T5 until it goes boom, since no one really wants to buy a 305. I know the suspension is best tuned to the weight of the car with the motor, transmission, etc and that is why I am planning on going adjustable with as much as I can. The rear end is good to go for now. I have an upgraded 10bolt with TA girdle. There is no way a 305 or stock 5.3 (which is what I was looking at) will blow it up, so weight wise I am close.

I will look into the rag joint. I didn't even think about that.

What is the better bang for the buck? Struts/Shocks or having the adjustment in your ride height with the weight jacks?

 

shocks and struts have to work with the ride height of the car.. Some work well with lowered and others do not.. And above all, tires are the single most important aspect of handling. I don't know much about weight jacks besides the fact you can adjust ride height and spring rate while on the car, which to me is pretty cool.. I do think it's a bit unpractical though as every time you lower or raise it, it will change the alignment settings and require an alignment.. I would go with a set height but that's just me. Oh, and LS series engines are lighter and will raise the front so that's why it's best to set everything in place first and THEN do the suspension, if you can wait that long. Up to you.

 

I just started running autocross in C Prepared and I'm hooked. What is my next best suspension mod? I'm thinking subframe connectors along the SCCA guidleines for my class. My mechanic also showed me that my stock torque arm is dented like the previous owner ran something over with it, so that is also on my list.

Tires- BFG g-force Super Sport A/S 245/50/R16
Suspension mods are in my signature below.

~Matt

 

And as a reference, these are the subframe connector rules for CP:

D. Subframe mount bushings may be replaced, but must attach in the
factory location(s) without additional modification or changes. Subframe
position may not be changed. The amount of metal in a replacement
bushing may not be increased relative to the amount of
metal found in a standard bushing for the particular application. Solid
metal bushings are specifically prohibited.
E. Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (SFCs) are permitted
with the following restrictions:
1. They must only connect previously unconnected boxed frame rails
on unibody vehicles.
2. Each SFC must attach at no more than three points on the unibody
(e.g. front, rear, and one point in between such as a seat
mount brace or rocker box brace).
3. SFCs must be bolted or welded, but welding must be to the OE
subframe stampings, not to the floor pan in between.
4. No cutting of OE subframes or floorpan stampings is permitted.
Drilling is permitted for mounting bolts only.
5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the
driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections
to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels
via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment.
No alteration to the OE components is permitted.
6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including but
not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft loops) and
may serve no other purpose.


~Matt

 

Been awhile.. Since my post in 2009 I have changed a few things.

Here's my current Setup:
New front end (tie rods, centerlink, idler arm, etc.)
Spohn bump steer kit
TDS wonderbar
MAC subframe connectors (inner)
SPOHN subframe connectors (outer)
Spohn adjustable LCA (poly/delsphere combo)
Spohn adjustable PH bar (poly/delsphere combo)
UMI TQ arm (poly)
Koni Yellow adjustable shocks and struts
J&M (hotpart) strut mounts
MAC 2 pt strut tower brace
Poly bushings and endlinks for stock 34mm+24mm swaybars
UMI LCARB (weld ins)
UMI a-arms (poly bushings + moog ball joint)
new front and rear rubber spring isolators (4th gen replacement isolators)
MOOG 5665 and 5662 front and rear IROC replacement springs (stiff stiff stiff!)
new poly rear bump stops, and polyurethane spohn front strut mounted bump stops
3" Aluminum Inland Empire driveshaft
Optima redtop relocated to rear spare tire compartment
SPOHN adjustable camber bolt kit (needed to adjust camber as well as SAI and IA)
670 steering box from Lee's performance (very good road feel)
Flaming river DD steering shaft (with solid joints on column end and box end.. replaces sloppy rag joint)
Firestone Indy 500 Wide Oval tires (245/50/16) on stock 16x8" iroc rims
Aggressive street alignment (-1 LR camber / 4.1L & 4.6R Caster / 0.10 LR Toe In)
Lots of weight reduction done. My car without me in it is 3350lbs.. Also, I have reduced weight in the proper places (removed lots over the front and places that are higher above the CG, and have added weight that sits lower ex: SFC's.)

Future plans:
-MAYBE getting racecraft drop spindles.. big maybe.. fitment issues with tubular a-arms are preventing me from buying these.
-Cut rear springs so that the car sits level (will do this soon... I have to re-measure the ride heights after relocating the battery to the rear).
-Spohn adjustable torque arm (delsphere bushings) with driveshaft front loop for safety
-New lightweight rear axles and aluminum rear-end cover
-ARP studs all around
-Aluminum front hubs (lighter rotational weight)