What height spring are you guys using? I specified The ability to go from stock height down to about 2" - and I recieved 8" tall springs. Even coupled with the weight jack itself set to maximum height - I think thats going to be way toooo low. Should I have recieved 10" tall springs? What are you guys using?

I called ground control and they told me that in the past 15 years thirdgens with their weight jacks almost always use 8" tall springs. Hmm......

Edit: Im talking specifically about the front springs.

 

what rate spring for the front did you get?

you shouldnt have any issues at all, i know the springs i got were short, but at 1050lb, dont really compress that much. I can get the front at stock height, maybe even a tad higher.

just put them in. They will be fine

 

Without the factory crap isolators, I think that will be on the short side.

For 15 years I never ran any isolators. I just wrapped the top of the springs that touch the upper can with black electrical tape and moly lubed grease all over them where they make contact. Never ever had any wear or corrosion problems, nor ever had any noise either.

 

Yeah I didnt use the Isolators with the weight jacks in the front - looks like the cup of the weight jack would have just cut straight through the rubber anyways.

Im going to give the 8" a shot tomorrow and see how it goes. I spoke to GC and they told me they'd be willing to trade me for the 10" springs if it doesn't work out, which is respectable of them.

Now to determine what specific height to go for........ any recommendations, aesthetics aside?

 

I would try and keep the car about 25.5-26 range in front fender lip height off the ground without drop spindles. Why? Because you retain decent A-arm angle starting position in articulation for camber curves. Going lower will promote camber loss in articulation and the suspension had better be rock hard to avoid massive travel.

 

I'm running 9.5" 600lb fronts & my adjusters are almost bottomed out, with a ride height of 25 7/8", ground to fender lip. When I pull up to a parking curb, my nose is just above it, so there is no change of me hitting a parking curb with the nose.

 

Stephen, Bottomed out meaning max height extended? or max lowered? I would think you mean you have the adjuster bottomed out in length

 

Bottomed out, as in.....I couldn't really adjust them any lower. Only upwards.

I bought the whole set used, but would go with 8.5"/9" springs, if I ever buy new springs. Nothing really wrong with what I have now, I would just prefer to have a choice in the future, to go lower if I wanted to, by having adjustment available to me.

 

Well then those adjusters have to be minimum 3" tall when fully shortened.

I wish someone could give us factual heights of those adjusters.

Why do I think 3" minimum height? Because they are 9.5" springs and only 600 lbs on a v8 car with a higher ride height than I had on a lighter weight V6 car. I had 800lb springs 12" tall and my car sat fender lip height at 24 3/4". You had to have a full half inch taller spring with maybe also a gas charged strut lifting yours 1 inch taller than mine on a heavier motor and lighter rate coil spring.

The spring pocket sits at 42% leverage so basically for every .42" of compressed spring height is 1" of ride height.

 

Here they are uninstalled.....


That pic was taken only to show them, so obviously that is a bad angle to take measurements off from. But having had them in my hands, I think 3" is an over-estimate. Maybe 2" max is closer to reality. The collar/seat is not all that tall.

KYB Gas-Adjust struts, no raised strut mounts. Bone stock strut mounts, for now.

I'm going to have to question your 24 3/4" ride height though. Here is a pic from the 89 GTA I had, that had NO SPRINGS in it at the time of this pic. It was sitting on the bump stops, fully depressed. Sitting on stock the 245s, which are (be spec) are 25.7" tall. In order to get your 24 3/4", you would have had to have cut the a-arm bumpstops. I rub mine, so by your claim, you were 1" in to them. Hard to believe, you see?

 

Dean, i have this pic, grabbed it from here years ago, i think its GC's setup, might be home-made, but its really close.


looks like something around 2.25-2.5" of adjustment
does this help?

 

Those look identical to my GC ones, in the pics I posted of my GC ones.

3 "walls" for the springs to set around....
Some small "bump" by the 3 walls (dunno what it could be for)....
Color....
Zerk fitting.

I'd have not reservation saying those ARE GC. And they fit my description of 2" max (adjusted all the way down). They look like 1 3/4" at the minimum height.

 

That's what my front looked like with mine bottomed all the way out. I have my rears bottomed out and to me it still sits alittle too high. I do have the isolators on so I might just do what VEtruck did and remove them. I can't imagine going back to a stock style set up since I got the weight jack system. I love the full adjustabilty of it.

 

I didn't put in the isolators either, so maybe there is another 1/2"-3/4" worth od "drop" by me not running them.

 

Are you guys adjusting these with the wheels in the air or on the ground? The top plate of the adjuster just spins when I attempt to adjust with the wheel in the air.

 

On the ground, with the suspension loaded. Otherwise, there isn't enough weight to keep that plate from spinning.

 

Well, I think GC sent me an adjuster with a chewed up thread. Once I reach a certain height, it gets REALLY tough, and the top plate will spin even with the wheel on the ground. I thought I noticed it before I installed them but I figured once installed and put through an adjustment the thread will "work itself out". Thats what I get for assuming. This really sucks. Looks like i get to take them in and out again.

By the way - is 26" supposed to look this low? I'm assuming this is because my camber is all out of wack since I haven't aligned the car yet. Prior to this I had stock WS6 springs with a camber of -.8 So I guess that lowering the car is giving me way more negative camber and creating a really small gap between the top of the tire and fender...

 

Also - what are you using to adjust the rear? I can't seem to find a spanner wrench anywhere, let alone one that will specifically fit this kit.

 

Loosen the allen headed jam "bolt" first, then mine moved by hand, after jacking the rear A LITTLE to relieve a little weight. Had to do that, since I had no spanner wrench. Might hafta use both hands. One to hold the threaded section from moving & the other to actually turn the spring seat.

 

mine cam with a spanner wrench.

 

Motion Industries sells spanner wrenches. You might find the one you need there. Any good bearing distributor should have them.

 

Stephen, No mistake at all. Here is a clear shot of my Camaro with 245/50-16's on factory Iroc 16" wheels (25.7" tire height).
My fender lip is 24 3/4" off the ground.

I did not have factory bump stops, my suspension is completely modified.

 

A bit of a mistake....

That looks like a rear.....The rear lips do sit a bit lower & we were discussing the fronts here.

 

Partner, thats my LF fender. Its 24 3/4" period. My rears are 26" even.

Here are my front coils. I have this entire car documented. These coils are 800lb springs at 12" free height and no isolators.

 

I dunno...It just doesn't add up.

The fender lip looks to be at the top of the tire, if not above it. Which would mean 26.7 or higher.

Now if the tape measure wasn't touching the ground, and we can't be certain from that angle.....It could have been 1" off the ground & maybe you didn't realize it?

I know that if that was the case, combined with your incorrect estimate, as proven by the GC Weight Jack pic posted by <<86 TA>>......Combine that could throw your #s off. Only 1", but that does make a difference at this ride height.

 

Touchy.........Aren't we?

And that front spring you posted will not fit GC parts (no pig tail) so maybe the adjusters you used had taller seats?

 

Stephn, I am a NASCAR crewcheif for christ sakes, I do all my measurements from ground reference on chassis rake, I am quite qualified to use a tape measure to measure a simple fender lip height.. Look at the other pics I attached of the cars side profile and underneath front A-arm shots. The car is 24 3/4" on the front two fender lips.

 

For reference, here is my car on some stock 16" wheels, sitting at exactly 66cm / 26".



Unfortunately thats the highest the weight jackers will go until they hit the misthreaded part of the adjuster.

Tomorrow I will adjust the rear end - Vetruck - based on your 25.5-26" recommendation for the front - what would be an ideal goal for the rear?

 

For the record Stephen, that small bump is there for spring indexing. The end of the coil wind sits against that bump.

Dean

 

Stephen, Stephen, Stephen. Don;t you know front springs in 3rd gen F-bodies do not have pigtails? The pigtail springs are in the rear partner. it is hard to correct you politely when you belittle yourself so badly. Do you realize what an *** you make of yourself with bizarre postings like this? I mean common, have you ever seen a little pigs tail and how it curls up tighter on the end? Please show me a picture of your front springs with the part circles on the pic of what you think a front spring pigtail is?

Dean

 

#1 I know that you claim to be a NASCAR crew chief. That does not mean that you aren't capable of mistakes. You are human....Aren't you? Does a NASCAR Crew Chief really have spare time to play on the internet, during the race season? I suppose he would, if he sat at a desh all day, every day.

#2 Chiefs/Supervisors/Those in charge.....Are usually good at organizing those people who actually do the work......From the office. It doesn't mean that they are hands-on-capable of doing the work themselves. Maybe you are? Not saying you aren't. But how winning, is your team?

#3 As evidenced by your estimate on the weight jack height, you ARE capable of making a mistake, because the seats ARE NOT 3" tall.

Just because I choose to be skeptical, does not mean you have to get all bent out of shape. I simply know that what you are saying, does not jive with what my personal experiences have shown. You sure do take things personal, don't you? Bottom line is.....I'm skeptical, always will be. That and I enjoy seeing just how mad you get over simple internet posts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....Call it a mistake. You are right. For once, I'll say you are. You've gotten me so frustrated with your "I AM GOD, THOU SHALT NOT DISPUTE ME" attitude, that I was a little too eager to find fault with one of your posts.

I've already shown pics of mine IN THIS THREAD. Go look.

I'd be a little more concerned with your own cocky posts, rather than other peoples MISTAKES. Like YOUR mistake of the "GC Weight Jacks have 3" tall minimum seats." despite pics showing otherwise. I love how you keep ignoring that and won't admit YOUR mistake!

 

You two should either challenge each other to a real life duel, or kiss and make up....

 

my god, why do certain people have to make everything into a pissing match?

and as for deans ride height of 24 3/4 in the front. I have no doubt in my mind that number is correct, besides, a 25.7" tall tire get a little shorter when there is load on it, sidewalls bulge, so there is extra height loss there. And from the angle of the control arms on deans cars pics, the car is pretty damn low.

i mean, look at hte air damn in the deans first pic with the bfg tires, the air dam is about 1" off the floor! second pics its been cut. Not to mention the k-member height

 

Also, the picture Dean had posted earlier, is indeed a LF fender,(you can see the badge, and door crack).

People CAN and WILL make mistakes. Lets just keep the thread on track please...

 

A little update:

GC is sending me two new threads for my front Weight jacks. Apparently they checked their inventory and found a lot of the threads they had in stock were banged up. They get them from another company which is supposedly the only one that makes them using a hardened steel.

Also, they are maintaining that these kits are not supposed to come with spanner wrenches. Whatever.

 

really? i havent had mine long, probably less than a year and i got a spanner

 

I believe it too. I mean, all you have to do is LOOK at the rear adjusters and see that they were obviously shaped that way to be used with a spanner wrench. They argued that if you use a spanner wrench - "The bottom cup would just spin in place". I suppose they might have a point, as I haven't had the chance to actually use a spanner wrench on them. I just lowered the rear and adjusted them by hand (which sort of defeats the whole purpose, doesnt it?)

For now i've got the rear set though, just worried more about getting the front properly set - waiting for the replacement parts from GC.

 

the front is cake to set the height, since you are just using a 1/2" ratchet and extension. Be sure to follow vetrucks other thread for setting up the front end when you do it.

 

Here is a link, so it will be here in this thread as well.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ack-setup.html

 

My GC kit came with a spanner wrench that has Ground Control's "GC" logo cut into it.

 

Bringing this back from the dead, didn't want to waste board space with a new thread.
I'm about to order mine. I think I want to run 850/175 lb for weights and be able to go from a little lower than stock at full height to slammed but drivable at full low. I have Koni's and will be running Founder's strut mounts and GC strut mounted bump stops. Are 8.5" for the front and 9" for the rear pretty close?

And those of you that run them, did you use the factory isolators, or what?

 

Went ahead and was going to order with 9" springs for the front and rear, but after calling their spring supplier they called me back and told me that the 850's only come in 8 and 9.5 inches and that the 8's are popular and the 9.5's probably wouldn't go much lower than stock. Looks like I'm getting the 8 inchers front and 9's rear, hope they work well. If they're too low it might be an incentive for a little weight loss up front

So if anyone's looking for future reference, those are the numbers you're stuck with.

 

How did the 8" up front work?

Also how is the car. They recommended me to get 850 front and 200 rear. I hope 200 in the rear does not turn my car into a drift car. I guess I can get a smaller sway bar if its a problem.

Never even talked to me about height. I do want to be able to drop the car at least an inch.

Should have mine next week for the big suspension rebuild.

 

I run 800 front 200 rear. Though I autocross my car so I need that little bit of rotation for the slow speed corners. At higher speeds it can be a bit tail happy.

 

Ok we are also setting up for autoX. I guess all is good.

What height where your front springs?

 

Great! I wonder if they made the threaded portion longer on the latest production run or something, because when I first installed them I was able to get the front end higher than stock. I dropped it down to what it was in my sig pic, 26.5", and then ended up settling on leaving them at slightly under 26" even up front. My rears have been at 27" since I put them on, the rake is a little much and it's probably not good with the inclined roll axis that thirdgens have since the front roll center drops much faster than the rear when lowering. I'm going to shoot for about 26.5" out back and see how that looks and feels. The car has Nitto 555's, 245's up front and 275's out back and is pretty balanced with the current stance, so it would probably be pretty tail happy on the stock wheels with the 215/65r15 Falken Ziexes.

I don't think 200's would be a problem but you probably will want to run a smaller sway bar, especially if your car was graced with the stock 24mm. If you go super low I'd think it would be a lot more pronounced due to the aforementioned roll axis issue, but I'm not totally sure.

 

I just sent them an email. The springs he ordered for me where:

950-550-0850 2

9or10-200 PIGTAIL 2


That's whats on the invoice. My guess is 9.5" front and what I am really confused about is 9 or 10" rear!!!

I think they where just busy and never asked me about height. I never mentioned it because I thought they where all the same height..

I will wait till tomorrow and see what they say. I don't think they will answer it tonight.

 

They set me up with 8"-850/9"250 cause of the extra weight of my dynamat and stereo. I told them I wanted stock height-down. I have only installed the fronts so far and am very pleased with the ride. Very firm but not harsh. I installed them with koni yellows, hotpart c/c plates, del-a-lums and moog ball joints. I tried getting it to stock height for the body shop but the raised strut mounts and konis don't extend far enough to allow it. I'd say its about 1" lower. I found it works really well to set the adjusters with end of my digital caliper. They are within .005". A lot easier than counting turns of the wrench.

I get it back from the body shop tomorrow (getting crack behind steering gearbox repaired), I will set my ride height, measure for swaybar endlinks. It gets a custom alignment on Tuesday, then saturday is the first autoX! Can't wait to see how it does.

 

^That's really weird since I have the same front setup as you and I drove 20 miles home with the front at 1 inch above stock. (I started at 9 p.m., got finished at 3 a.m. due to some complications and had to work at 8 so I was pretty much over it at that point lol) Springs were indexed properly and the adjusters were installed right. I don't have any photographic proof since it looked really terrible though haha.

I'm really curious as to what accounts for the difference. I haven't started on weight reduction yet, the car scales at 3400 so i know that can't have anything to do with it.

 

That's also my set up. He never asked any of that.

I will wait for him to answer the email and see what happens.