I just took my car to get it aligned and they did a good job they got the toe to .14 and camber to -.5 but they said there was no caster adjustment and that they would have to remove the struts and grind on the mounting plates to adjust it? I need it done because right now it is set at .8 and the car is all over the place in both directions, i rebuilt the entire front end and even they said it's really tight. My question is is that shouldnt there be more than .8 caster adjustment, do they not know what they are doing? I would like to have it set to 4 but they said its almost impossible.

 

Unfortunately they are correct. Caster is not adjustable on our 3rd gens. because the control arm bushings are fixed and non adjustable, the only adjustment provided is at the upper strut mounts. They are only adjustable for camber, not caster. Generally, these cars handle quite well if a little harsh. Their cornering abilities are legendary. I have seen them have issues with tracking straight but only with directional tires on badly worn pavement(the roads in Oregon are terrible). Modifying the strut mounts may be an option if you cant find any other fix.

 

I seemed to recall there being a little bit of adjustment, but maybe not.

In any case you can buy J&M struts mounts, I can get over 7 degrees of caster with them.

 

Caster is adjusted in the same manner that camber is adjusted. Via the strut mounts, they need to be pulled toward the rear of the car to increase caster. My car stock, an 82, would only get 3.5 degrees caster. Later cars had more adjustment available.

I would like to think their is more adjustment available than the shop is aware of.

 

yeah, I know on mine at work, I had to use a mallet and elongate or waller out, the bolt holes for camber adjustment, to get some caster adjustment. I have mine set perfectly to spec, and It drives much better, but these cars do not like bumpy pothole filled roads like we have in Vermont

 

The shop is wrong. Our 3rd gen's HAVE adjustable caster. The slots for it are in the strut tower. You need to find another shop.

The adjustment slots for camber are in the strut mount.

The adjustment slots for caster are in the strut tower.

Toe is adjusted via the tie rods.

RBob.

 

yup, check these slots:

 

That pic really helped, thanks! I am going back to the shop within the next week and am going to see if they will realign it, should I just tell them that the slots are hidden and to just loosen the 3bolts and hit the tower? How are they supposed to adjust it, I want to explain it to them to make it "idiotproof", because so far they've done a good job setting it to my specs.

 

Exactly. Loosen all 3 and move the whole tower. That is even how the Factory Service Manual says to do it.

 

ok thats what i thought, now get to go back and fight with them to re-align the car. fun fun

 

If they take a hammer to the strut mount you are going to end up with a dented and chipped mount. That is not the proper way to do an alignment.

There is a tool that is similar to a turn-buckle. It hooks onto the center lip of the mount and then to a fender bolt. This holds the mount in position. The mount can be moved by hand to get the proper alignment and tightened down.

The other issue I've had with alignment shops is that they over tighten the strut mounting nuts. IIRC, the spec is about 14 ft/lbs. Which isn't all that tight.

Over tighten them and the strut tower sheet metal deforms and gets pulled into the strut mount slots. This makes it difficult to move the mount to do a caster adjustment.

And folks wonder why I do all my own work...

RBob.

 

Partially correct.

The device, J-29724, you are describing is used for adjusting CAMBER. And the torque spec for those 3 strut mount nuts is 27 N-m, which equals 20.651740179756 ft lbs, so you were pretty close at 14ft lbs.

He wants to adjust CASTER. Which is adjusted by the 3 slots in the sheetmetal, as shown in the pic above posted by Twin_Turbo, and shown in the FSM.

 

Without the tool the caster can't be properly adjusted. Because once the strut mount nuts are loosened the strut mount takes a dive toward the engine.

The tool is required to do a proper job of a front end alignment on our 3rd gens. Both camber AND caster.

RBob.

 

Oh boy, I really need to do my homework. Thanks guys for correcting me. BTW, tightening torque according to my service info is 21ftlbs(28Nm).

 

Ok, so I went back and asked them to re-align it and they said that they can do this but it still won't stop my "dartiness" when on the interstate, and that my handling was bad due to play in the steering column. They made it sound like it could hurt the handling and I think that this was a bunch of bs just so they could get me to be satisfied with my alignment. I replaced everything on my front end except my centerlink and steering column, so there shouldnt be that much play at all, and I haven't noticed any play whatsoever. Do you guys think that they were just trying to get out of aligning it, or do you think that the caster is good enough and that I need to replace my steering column.

 

Additional caster improves straight line stability.

As for the steering column, the only item I've found that wears is the bushing at the lower end. This is located where the shaft exits the column under the hood. Easy to replace, best done while also replacing the intermediate shaft.

The rag joint doesn't 'wear', but it will become mushy and cause play. Although, if there isn't any play in the steering, then these items are not an issue.

RBob.

 

Wow... I say it's time to find a new shop. Or, if you like the guys, educate them.

 

The car's goin back for re-aligment tomorrow so hopefully they will get it right, I doubt they have the alignment tool so they'll just have to struggle I guess. I've been screwed by a couple shops so this time I'm not taking anything less than my specs from this shop.

 

Let us know how this works out, I'm actually facing a similar issue. My caster is just plain funky! I'm gonna have to take it back to the shop.

Here's the alignment sheet for my car:
http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/x...Aalignment.jpg

 

The lower steering shaft can be a source of play. The plastic parts in the swivel at the top just below where it attaches to the column can deteriorate & cause play in the steering.

Mine did it twice over the years. I have since replaced the lower shaft/rag joint with a solid shaft & dual u-joints.

 

Took it back and they got it good, I just had to show them the pic of the slots and how to do it. They maxed it out at 3.4 on passengers side and set it to 3.1 on drivers side and it handles really nice now, its not darty or pulling to one side. Now the issue that I have is that when I brake hard the passenger side pulls and will lock up before drivers side, gotta get that fixed before spring autocross.

 

That is good news. I've been down this road and know the difference a proper alignment makes.

As for the braking issue, first are the front brake hoses. These are the flex lines. Replace those.

Secondary is the calipers. If the flex hoses don't fix the pulling issue then a chance a caliper is bad. If so just replace both.

This is assuming that the rotors and pads are OK, which are rarely an issue.

RBob.

 

I replaced the brake rotors, pads, and rubber lines about 20,000miles ago when I got the car so they shouldnt be bad yet, I replaced the passenger side caliper since the brake bleeder was snapped off and I couldn't get it out. One thing I noticed was that the when I put the rubber ling on the drivers side it is a lil twisted and has a loop in it, its not kinked completely but I think that if I get that straight it might fix the problem. If not new caliper was only $40 so I'll just go with that.