hi guys i know there was a thread gone bad about this but i am curious on this part as i want to go with true duals exhaust in 3 inch form and there is a relocation kits for the panhard bar on the chassis end that lowers it further from the chassis and there is a bracket/mount to counter act this on the axle end but there was mention about it needing stiffer springs and or swaybar as its a daily driver car and i go ocasionally to the auto x and to drag race once in a while what are the effects of doing this? is there any benifit besides bigger exhaust? im in big need of help on the subject

thanks for your time! and please keep it on topic as you see i did not mention brands of these kits as i am unsure wich one to get if needed if not might have to fab up a factory replacement to clear the exhaust ive seen ppl remove the brace what would that do?

 

3" Duals seems like overkill. You don't have to worrier about the track bar (panhard), that wont interfere with the true duals its the upper track bar brace that will.

 

You can buy an upper bar that will fit dual exhaust.

Dual 3" is a lot. You need a little bit of backpressure.

What king of HP are you pushing?

 

seems to be 427 bbc and a t5 of all things.

 

I'd say then, exhaust is the least of this person's REAL worries.

No you can't just remove the brace; it's part of the chassis (not really anything to do with the panhard bar per se, just happens to be near it). Its job is to make sure the 2 sides of the body stay the same distance apart.

Somebody did at one time make a replacement one out of tubing. Don't know if it's still around or not. Wouldn't be too hard to figure out something along those lines that you could easily do yourself; a couple of plates and a few feet of about 1½" tubing, a little bending and welding, and you'd be in business.

 

yeah you guys are right i have a 427 big block with some goodies and i know there is a relocation kit but im wondering how does it affect handling as the car i find handle really good except cantgive it gas in the truns as it will spin out very easily and i dont really wanna make it and worse as i am tryin to fix the fact the nose is heavy but only solution i have done so far is fiberglass lift off hood and relocated the battery

and sofakingdom why you say exhaust is the least of my worries ?

 

fueledsoul and the project your right its not the panhard bar itself the is different but if you looked at the kits like umi,spohn and others its call panhard bar relocation as the upper mount is lower to the hole for the panhard bar originally goes and lowers the panhard bar below that point with brakets and if you lower one side you must lower the other as well and im asking what would this do to the handling carracteristics and as there was a thread about this and ppl mentionned that you needed heavier springs or sway bar im wondering why and is all this a bad idea ?

heres the link for the umi parts as to show you guys what in talking about since the first post http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=289

 

Here is a good example of what happens with a PRLB...

This is why your handing gets compromised... In an ideal world the panhard bar should be completely horizontal and center end to end with the axle tubes. If you have some fabrication skills you can modify the upper track brace to clear duals very easily.

 

great info again but there is a kit to lower the axle end as well wich im wondering combined with both ends lowered what would it comprimise in handling the bar would be straight or close to it

 

Because the T-5 is a MUCH greater worry. I tore up about a half-dozen of em with a 305, and then another dozen or more with a 400, so I know first-hand how delicate they are. I had to completely re-learn how to drive, to keep them alive: after an embarrassingly large number of decades of driving stick-shift cars, I suddenly discovered one day, that it's possible to lift my foot off the gas while shifting!! I had no idea. Once I learned that, I quit chewing through them quite as fast, but they still needed more maintenance than I wanted to supply, so I switched to a T-56 and haven't ahd to touch it again.

Anyway, as to the PHB RLB, you typically need that when the car is lowered enough that the PHB is no longer level. That causes the rear tobe shifted to one side, and handle asymmetrically as well. The RLB restores the correct geometry by lowering the rear-end end of the PHB.

If you don't already have LCA RLBs, you might want to consider those, for assisting with traction.

 

http://www.hybridmuscle.com/construc...hard%20Bar.jpg

is that what you're thinking of? I should be receiving one soon I can link you the part so long as it being the right one

 

redneckno4- that is the bar im talking about yes but im trying to find out what handling caracteristics does it do when both sides are lowered meaning the bar would be level in the end just located below the center on the diff as i know if you lower just one side it will understeer turning one way and oversteer the other way lol cause i like the way the car handles at the moment but dont have room to fit the dual 3inch exhaust i want to run and by installing this bar gives the room but makes the car handle not as good as stock

sofakingdom- ive had this t-5 behind my 350 bored .060 over with rhs heads and .550 lift cam roller rockers long tube headers and so on lol and never had an issue for 3 years and 1 year behind the big block but i dont drive it like you might i learned you cant speed shift them and dump the clutch broke 2 of them the first moth i had the 350 built lol and since then no issue and a nother help is i never put slicks on it and i went through a dozen or more 7.5 rear ends in the 4 years i had the car definatly agree they are weak but with mainly street driving i have no issue as i i have 2 spares at all times and im planning on upgrading the internals of the trans just dont have the budget at the moment

 

I answered your PM.

Further more, lowering that bar on both ends is what? 2 inches total drop of the RC (roll center)? That would be a drastic start and would limit you from raising it to readjust out any ill roll caharacteristics in the car. You start lowering that and having to raise the rear spring rate you will be loading the outside nose of the car on every corner entrance under braking. You are going to go to a tight losse tight corner entrance and have that steering wheel fighting you "possibly'. You need to keep adjustment range to be able to have the adjustment tools to work with in tayloring in that BBC weight.

If exhaust is your worry, then might I suggest oval tubing like the NASCARs run for clearance issues.
Here is Dr Gas'es website: http://drgas.mybisi.com/products/oval-tubing-and-bends

Dean

ps- I f you need more roll axis adjustment, I would rather see you lower the rear RC one inch and raise the front RC one inch rather than a two inch rear RC drop (Just for example of explination in adjustments) Better off limiting a little power rather than limiting handling charateristics and not being able to use that power- see my point? Messing with panhard heights is a very sensitive tool. THose guys that sell that relocation product are clueless to suspension knowledge and the ill effects it WILL cause someone in handling- you need to change ALOT to make it work whcih cost $$$$. This is if you seek a normal to extreme handking car, not just pertaining to all out racecars. Messing with RC's is major if you do not know what you are doing.

 

i replied to the pm before i saw that you messaged on this thread and asked another question and you are definatetly right i think im going to stick with the stock location for the panhard bar and make it as close to level i can by altering the ride height just a hair lol as the car handles fairly well for mostly stock components beside stffer rear springs tubular panhard bar and adjustable rear shocks but i know i can reach the limmit of traction on the street (as much as the tires lets me) if i went to the track and upgraded tires im not so sure how it would react but so far i can say its safe to leave the panhard bar the way it is or get it closer to level as possible

 

No need to raise and lower the chassis of the car to get the bar level as long as the panhard bolts (split height) measure within 1" of eachother off the ground (on level ground with you in the cockpit). We have a long enough PHB so geometry is fine with about as much as a 1" split in heights at stagnant chassis.

 

thank you soo much Vetruck for all your help and great information
now have to wait till all the snow melt so i can drive the car