evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

iv been looking at getting a wonderbar, i know they relieve stress off the steering box and help tighten up the front end, is it a good idea to get one for the sake of my steering box?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i feel that its good insurance, if nothing else

58mark

iTrader: (3)

yes, your car especially is prone to a frame crack at the steering box. if you don't have one already, it's a miracle. A wonderbar can help prevent the flexing that can cause that problem.

Don't spend a ton of money, just pick up a OEM one. Should be $25-30 before shipping

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i can get one from TDS thats powdercoated how i want and its thicker than original i think, its like $55 plus shipping

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...products_id=45

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I think it's overkill, but if you've got the money and a OEM one isn't staring you in the face screaming "buy me", it's not a bad deal at all

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

You can get one from TDS, but many people feel that it is not worth the extra cost over the stock Wonder Bar.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-Ir...item563331acf7

theres that one on ebay, worth it?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

nope...that's going to run you over $50 after shipping

search the parts for sale here (and cars being parted out) somebody will sell you one for $25-$30 shipped

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

idk, that TDS keeps staring at me, it bolts to the frame aswell, wouldnt that be alittle safer or more stable? theres would be $70.20 shipped...

UNCLE TOM

iTrader: (1)

i have had TDS on 2 different cars . i think they are worth it . JY search is hit & miss . go for it . good luck .

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

does it bolting to the frame help support at all?

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Overkill? It's $50 and a handful of bolts that anybody can install. I wish all suspension pieces were this cheap and easy to install.

UNCLE TOM

iTrader: (1)

it is supported by 5 bolts , 4 are the sway bar mounts & 1 on the sub-frame . all you need is a 15mm wrench/socket and about 30 mins. . good luck .

58mark

iTrader: (3)

overkill... paying more for an item that the benefit you will receive for it. Meaning why spend over $50 for the TDC bar when the OEM will do the same job for half as much?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Wonderbar is the cheapest, easiest, best mod you can do to our cars.

I got one off an '86 IROC for my '83 Z/28 from someone here on TGO. Best money I ever spent.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

no, i meant, since you have the TDS, do you think that since theirs bolts to the frame its self, do you think its better or do you think the stocks are suffecient and will do fine?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The Wonderbar is stamped steel, just like many of the parts--LCA's, pandhard, and torque arm--we're so quick to replace as hobbyists because of their inherent weakness. If the latter parts, why not the former?

FWIW, I once purchased an OE Wonderbar which had a slight bend in it. How'd I straighten it? I put it between two blocks of wood and put of bit of my weight on it. So if strength is at issue, the after market version would seem to be the best choice, IMO.

Here's an OE for sale in our classifieds.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...onder-bar.html

JamesC

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Lon's bolts on EXACTLY the same way as a stock one; under the sway bar bushing brackets.

Personally I think the stock one is entirely adequate. The amount of force on it is really quite small, and is applied in the direction it's strongest, along its length. Not trying to bend or twist it, for instance, only trying to lengthen or shorten it. Given that it adds weight RIGHT ON THE NOSE of the car, I'd tend to shoot for the lightest one that would do the job, and avoid a "beefy" one if I could. But that's just me.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Would an OEM, or aftermarket one fit directly onto an RS with the single fan?

I thought I read something about the Spohn one having poor fitment, or only working with dual fan cars (or something of the sort).

58mark

iTrader: (3)

My oem bolted onto my single fan rs perfectly. Cant say about any others

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Since IROC's were equipped with both single and dual fans, there should be no fitment issues. My Global West steering box brace fit both without modification.

JamesC

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Cool, thank you.

Guess I'll add this to the list of suspension mods for the future. Had never really considered one before, didn't realize how much difference they supposedly make.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

The Spohn fitment issue is just the opposite. Only fits single fan cars.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...rformance.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...pointment.html

UMI revised their Wonder Bar in 2006 to fit both single & dual fan cars. (post #6)
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...wonderbar.html

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Recommended. However, before you purchase, you might peruse the following link:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...questions.html

JamesC

the solitaire

I wouldn´t really see why $50 would be too much for the part.
Yes, if you go out of your way and search you will possibly find a stock, 20 year old piece of metal for less, but I´d prefer spending mere $50 for a powdercoated factory fresh piece instead.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Got my TDS one years ago.. Replaced the stock part (which was in great shape) because this one bolts into more locations and is beefier... I've used it with my stock 86 single fan setup, AND now it's currently there with the dual-fan setup from a 1989 trans am. Works great, looks good. Have I noticed a difference? No... But I have upgraded every single suspension piece in my car so I need the beefiest and strongest pieces money can buy IMO since i'm planning on racing it (autox, time attack, etc.) so for 50$ it's a steal for peace of mind knowing the frame will not crack around the steering box.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

get the one you want to get..

others saying to go cheap....well thats up to them... not many cheap parts cars..stay on top in the long run..it's always fun saving money..that way you can buy Gas..

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

To put price in perspective, a new Wonderbar from GM went for $34, IIRC.

JamesC

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

where??

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

When they were available from the dealership. I'd imagine they're discontinued at this point.

JamesC

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

probably...

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

My point is that at this late date, rusty Wonderbars of 20+ years are selling for more than the originals brand new.

I found several at bone yards in the $5.00 and $10.00 range over the years, so that might be a possibility, if you're willing to walk the weeds.

You might have your dealership run a search (my dealership found discontinued parts for me all over the country, so who knows):

Brace, Upr Structure 14042019

JamesC

58mark

iTrader: (3)

those are all great points....IF (big if) you knew where there was a salvage yard with thirdgens. those are hard to come by around here, and junk yard hopping burns up a lot of time and gas that makes it less worth your time to DIY

A NOS one from a dealership would be sweet. And the TDS is not a bad deal at all, it's a great plan B

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

:]. good thing about here, i have 3 junkyards FILLED with thirdgens, i have one yard that i go to that almost all the cars are complete besides whats iv taken and im always there so ill be there alot

CHJ37

summit has nice ones for $50 powdercoated black or red

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Emphasis on "supposedly"...

It's not what you'd call a "revolutionary" difference; just a minor tweek, really. An "incremental" improvement. When I added one to my car, the main thing I noticed was that it just felt more solid, more internally connected if you will, when going around a corner with bumps in it; which is one of the things these cars have always had trouble with anyway. The rest of the time, the car was just barely noticeably tighter feeling especially in the steering, but that was so slight it could have been nothing more than my cognitive dissonance at work. Still, as cheep as it was (seems like I paid low $20 something at the stealership), I thought it was an excellent bang for the buck.

92firebird 305

I have a stress crack again on my car can that wonder bar fix it im gonna pull the gear box off then reweld it again

micktroup2

Everyone is arguing over $50 vs. $25-35. REALLY?? I have a TDS one on my RS and I noticed an IMMEDIATE difference. The front was far stiffer and it was a better bang for the buck that the STB that followed. The neat thing about the TDS unit is it has two extra holes that enable you to bolt the bar to the car first, THEN swing the sway bar bushings up into place. Otherwise, on the ones with only two holes per end, you have to hold the bar in place with one hand, swing the sway bar up with the second hand and put the bolts in with the third hand. Oh wait, one; two; three.... hmmm. Since I am a lonely guy who works alone, the YDS unit made more sense. Hope that helps.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, the "wonder bar" is indeed "wonderful", but it won't fix cracks.

It will however keep certain ones from re-appearing as quickly.

I guess how big of a difference it makes, depends maybe on what condition the car was in, to begin with... like maybe, if the bumper reinforcement that's only about 8" away, was bolted on tight, or not. Mine was tight, so the WB made very little difference. A car where the bumper is falling-off loose, or bent and therefore compromised, or where somebody thought it was a good idea to take it out entirely for drag racing or something, could be a whole other matter.

I sure didn't have any trouble putting mine in. Take out 2 bolts, slide part between 2 other parts, put 2 bolts back in; move to other side, repeat. Didn't take much longer to do it, than to type those highly detailed instructions. It literally took longer to drive the car up on ramps, lay down, and slide under it, than it did to put the part on. Also a VERY high bang-to-effort ratio.

Whatever one you get, you'll probably like it. Don't expect miracles though. And as far as the price difference, it might not even be available new from GM any more; so it costs what it costs from Lon or Steve or whoever, and there's no sense in even arguing about that. If you want it, buy it.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Again, read the link in post #25 for some interesting info about the Wonderbar and its effectiveness.

JamesC

stage20

iTrader: (3)

i had an old spohn version. the only thing i had to do for the bar and the fans to be happy was to take a dremel and cut out the bottom half of the cylinder the bolt sits in on the fan shroud. fans bolt up the same, and then you can get to the bolts via a ratchet wrench from the bottom instead of using a socket.

my car had one from the factory and i did notice a difference with the spohn. shortly after i went the drag racing route and removed it for weight.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

This part is so overblown it's ridiculous. Want to tighten up your steering? pull out your 20+ year old steering box and re-adjust it to GM specs. Replace your rag joint. Save up for some good tires.

Would I put one on my car? sure why not.. if i stumbled upon it in the junkyard or something like that. Not very high on my priority list, and I actually track my car and do quite well. If you want your car to handle well, get tires and wheels, shocks, springs, and bushings. Most of the tubular stuff for sale does almost nothing for handling.

DJP87Z28

GM's bandaid fix for the steering box with a cheap steel stamping to prevent stress on the area. This was the result of the then new wider tires (245/50/16 gatorbacks) used on IROC-Z.
Who would of thought this cheap STEERING BOX SUPPORT (correct name) would turn out to be the "WONDERBAR" ??? Also the answer to all the SOTP handling issues + a cottage business selling them. The name Wonder bar should give you a clue...You just wonder what it function is.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

yea, you need supporting mods and parts in excellent condition for best results, but the wonderbar can aid in keeping the steering box in place. less flex is what its all about right?
you want tight steering, id say make sure you have a wonderbar on it, along with other supporting mods.

its not a miracle brace.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I agree. A car with a cracked frame by the steering box will not have tight steering no matter how good the shocks/tires are.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I have actually personally welded up severe steering box cracks (on my car that I now run time attack events with) The steering box cracks that I fixed would not be prevented by the wonder bar. This would be apparent to you if you fixed said cracks. I have posted the reasons why several times.

I guarantee I push my car harder than just about anyone on this forum and I have no wonderbar. This is not to say that a wonder bar wont stiffen up the area. I'm sure it does. If I come across one in the junkyard I might even grab it. You are delusional though if you think it is a night and day difference or that your car will "handle" better afterwards.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Whatever improvement it makes, if your car is already in good shape, is VERY small, and just barely noticeable. It doesn't affect how the car "performs", and only slightly affects how it "feels". For years after it appeared, I (a regular visitor to new-car showrooms) didn't even notice that it was there; it didn't materially affect how, say, a 84 Z28 drove in the fall of 83, and how an equivalent 85 IROC drove in the fall of 84. The change in spring rate was noticeable, the other was NOT. If it does any more than that, the car is defective to begin with, and needs repair and/or renewal, not modification.

That said, for as cheeep as it is (or was anyway) and as eeeeezy as it is to put on, it gives a good bang for both the buck and the effort. But it doesn't work miracles. I think alot of people either have VERY powerful imaginations, or VERY messed-up cars, or a little of both.

On the subject of imagination, see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance for a discussion of the phenomena at work.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I've often chuckled over the idea that a GM BandAid has miraculously become a 'performance' part.

JamesC

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The term "wonderbar" was actually coined by GM chassis engineers working on the then new '85 IROC-Z package. I remember reading an interview with one of them around 1984.


Maybe I need to check a little closer for cracks around my steering box, (I gave it a good once over when I was under there - but you never know), because I really felt an improvement after installing a wonderbar on my '83. And I'm sure it's more than just cognitive bias.