I am making a list for all the parts I'm gonna order to redo all my suspension and brakes here. I have a 02 ws6 TA rear end to go in and figured i Midas well order a bunch of parts to do all my suspension/brakes at once.

I'll list every part I'm looking at and let me know what's needed, necessary or not needed or not necessary for a street car.
My car won't ever see an actual race track. Maybe a drag strip once or twice but that's about it.
It's a 1991 Camaro RS. Originally a 305 TBI with a 5-speed.
Now it's got an LS3, T56, aluminum driveshaft and LS1 car read diff with 3:42 and rear disc's, C6 Z06 18x9.5 wheels (all 4) with 245/40/18 tires all around (need wider for the rear for sure)
first of all I want the car LOW, like maybe. Few inches off the ground at the most. Car has seen 1000km in the last three years, so it doesn't get driven much at all.
Ever part I see is on Hawks Third Gen


BAER Black Label 13" rotor front Brake kit
Drilled/slotted rear rotors and new pads for rear disc's
Conversion cables for ebrake
UMI tubular non adjustable lower control arms
UMI lower control arm relocation brackets
UMI "on-car" adjustable pan hard bar
Eibach Sportlines lowering springs
KYB GR-2 shocks/struts (front and rear) (mainly for price)
BMR Wonder Bar
New steering pieces as needed
BMR Strut Tower Brace (2-point)
Spohn Sub Frame Connectors
Energy Suspension sway bar end links and bushings throughout car

Is there anything I'm missing? I would perfer to run the factory torque arm for now for simplicity.
I want it to ride as good as it can with the low profile tires and handle as good as I can make it on the highway and streets. I don't like body roll much.
Are coil overs worth the extra cost?

 

I'd install after market mounts before the STB. That said, sometimes apparently modification of some sort is required to run both. The mounts will accommodate lowering.

JamesC

 

If you want to go low I would suggest the Ground Control weight jacks over the lowering springs. That way you get to dial in your ride height exactly where you want it and pick your spring stiffness. That's the path I'll be going once I dive into that project.

 

I looked into the weight jacks. I'm a bit confused on them tho, do they come with springs or do I need to also buy springs too?
Does a kit come with both front and rear jacks or just one or the other for $460?

 

i bought Ground control weight jacks for my 92. Yes they come with all 4 springs that you choose the spring rate. i got 850/250 cause i autoX with heavy stereo in the back, you will want a much lower rate for a nice cruiser. the "kit" also comes with front and rear adjusters. here is a pic from another thread. my front adjusters came powder coated red.

do a search on the weight jacks. there are several threads about them.

 

They come with everything you need. I believe you can only buy the whole kit together, they don't sell front and rears separately.

 

OP, if you're going that low you will DEFINITELY want strut mounts and I'd ditch the KYB's in favor of some Koni Yellows... those KYB's won't like being used at the range the ride height will put them at. Founder's Performance has very reasonably priced strut mounts and very very cheap panhard bars and control arms, but I can't personally comment on their quality or customer service or any of that vs. UMI, Spohn, BMR, etc as I haven't bought from them yet. Coloradospeed has the J&M/ Hotpart strut mounts (basically identical to the Founders' but with a better warranty and possibly better bearings) on sale right now for about the same price as the Founders' units so that might be worth a look too.
http://www.coloradospeed.com/hotpart...d-p-23153.html

Is your panhard bar relocated? That is really stiff in the rear, even with the added weight, you might try 200 or 175 if the car is really loose out on the course. Also, just curious, do you know what length the front springs you got were?

 

Beat me to it!

 

I'm gonna have to look into the ground controls now for sure. Will they work and get my car low enough with my all aluminum ls3 with t56. My front end sits about 2" higher than the rear right now the stock springs and my engine and trans are in the car.
I want the car to drop like 4" from where it currently is to where I want it in the front. And about 1.5-2" in the back.

How much are the Koni yellow shocks and where can I get them?
I was looking at the KYB's because of the price. And the fact that my car very rarely sees use, so if I'm gonna spend lots, I Midas well go coil overs than.

Would the coil overs be worth it than over the weight jacks and new shocks?

 

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I have not installed them yet. i'm collecting parts for a complete overhaul when it this iowa winter ends. As of now i have no plans for relocating my panhard bar but its still very early in this project. Before ordering i did a lot of research to see what others were running and thuroughly questioned the tech at ground control on his selection for me. He said between my stereo weight and making sure i stay off the bump stops that was his recommendation. Yes my spring rates are higher than most on here but if you check out FRRAX there are guys with street cars running 1000-1200 fronts and up to 300 rears. so i'm not as nervous about the 250s now. 8"front, 9"rear, I asked for stock ride height and down.

 

Yep yep, they'll work. Yahtzee and Z28evans are both running LS engines and the GC setup.
Yahtzee's car-
Z28evans-
It will depend on the spring rates and lengths you order as to just how low you can go. Ask around on here and call GC for rough estimates of numbers.

Koni's are like $700ish IIRC but well worth the money. Shox.com and tirerack carry them and they're having the factory yearly Koni sale right now at all retailers. I'd shop around online and find the best price shipped.

Coilovers are generally considered a bad idea on third gens because the strut towers are very thin as opposed to the thick, beefy k member. Coilovers move the spring load from the a-arm pocket and place the huge load on the thin sheet metal on the strut towers. Coilovers also limit front tire size. You can reinforce the strut towers, and there are people running them, but they aren't common as the GC/ Koni setup works really well without all of the issues.


Yeah I know what you mean about collecting parts, I did the same thing and am just waiting on a good day to drive to my buddy's and put them on.

I was just curious because I asked for the ability to go from stock to slammed too with the same front rates you have and got 8" springs as well... I'll be interested to see what they'll actually do since 87350iroc had the same rate and length front springs and topped out at about one inch lower than stock at full height and his car had aluminum heads. Oh well, if it's an issue at least changing springs should be easy!

I heard a lot of people trying to run a 5:1 spring ratio front to rear, but they're also running the bigger sway bars with the factory rear panhard bar mount. Those rear springs should definitely keep you off the bump stops but if it does end up being tail happy you can always try playing with the sway bar combo or relocating the PHB.

 

BMR is currently advertising Koni
Check the
Chassis // Suspension
Section for particulars

$560 or 57x for coil over conversion
$673 for front & rear adjustables
Rear springs & shipping free

(edit )
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ock-value.html

 

Are the Koni's really worth it for a car that barely gets driven?

I don't need absolutely top of the line parts. But I do want some quality tho.
I'll phone up GCWJ tomorrow I hope and see what they say for my car with the light engine.
What length of sprimgs should I go with? I want minimum 1" lower than stock with the ability to adjust it 2-2.5" lower than stock even.

 

8 inch (with a relatively stiff spring, ~800+) or 9.5 inch (with a softer spring ~600ish) up front depending on how stiff and 9" springs in the back. For the rear rates you want to run about a 5:1 ratio, so 500 lb fronts would warrant 100 lb rears (too light of a setup to run that low though), 750 with 150, 1000's would go with 200's, etc.

And it depends on the type of driving you do. If you're going long distances, hitting twisty back roads kind of hard or autoxing when you drive it, you will be happy with the Koni's. If you're just making fun passes at the strip, going to nearby car shows or cruising around town, you could probably get by with some el grande cheapo's as long as they don't leak.

 

The spring rate thing I don't get. What is recommended usually?
I drive the car pretty rarely, not out to auto cross it. Might take it to the strip. But mostly its just a fun Sunday cruiser toy.
Not many twisty roads around here (flat prairie land) and if I'm going on a long tour, than ill take my truck.
What about the QA1 adjustable shocks?

 

Generally 750-800ish lb/in rates or higher are recommended for running a car as low as you plan on going, as you want to stay off of the bump stops.

The two biggest issues with lowering are hitting the bump stops and the shortened suspension travel. Generally people trim them down or replace them with strut mounted bump stops for more travel before the bump stop hits. Hitting them causes unpredictable handling, isn't great for the car, and it just feels like crap in general. J&M, UMI or Founder's strut mounts are also recommended since they give more strut travel, helping the ride and handling and letting your struts live longer by putting them back to their operating range. The extra inch of strut travel and the extra bump stop travel will help, but you still only have so much room to play with. Stiffer springs limit travel, but compromise traction and ride quality as you go to incredibly high rates in an extreme example.

The spring "free" (uninstalled) length will depend on the rate, a softer spring is going to compress more when installed than a stiffer spring. This is what will determine your ride height and adjustment range. 8" and 9.5" free lengths are popular.

QA1's cost as much as Koni's or Bilsteins and had a bad history of leaking:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...nt-struts.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...s-verdict.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...1-garbage.html
KYB's are notorious for going leaking and wearing out quickly too, especially on lowered cars.

The most commonly used shocks/ struts, laid out simply, in order of quality (and pretty much price, like tires you get what you pay for):

Best, overkill for anything but an all out high dollar race car-
Penske
AFCO

Best, given a realistic budget-
Koni Yellow (adjustable, good valving for lowered cars)
Bilstein HD (great but non-adjustable, said to need revalved for lowered cars)
(QA1's are in this price tier but aren't nearly as popular or well liked as the other two)

Good, adjustable-
Koni Red
Tokico Illumina
KYB AGX

Non adjustable, quality and lifespan on a lowered car are questionable, results may vary-
Tokico "Blue", KYB GR-2, Monroe, Gabriel, whatever's on special at your local parts store

The bottom tier is okay for a daily driver or car you don't plan on keeping for very long. On a good, fun street car build you'll be hanging onto for a while, I'd shoot for the middle two tiers. The top tier is just for reference, there probably isn't actually anyone on this board building such an extreme vehicle for the street to need those, just wanted to show the full range of what's out there. Unfortunately, springs, shocks and tires are about like the valve train of a nice engine- not a place you want to skimp and you generally get what you pay for. I rode around on blown 26 year old Monroes for the first two years I had my car until I scraped enough change together for the setup I wanted.

 

Well I plan on keeping the car for many many years. Especially now with the ls3 in it.
After looking at the price of the Koni's and the price on ground control weight jacks, I could throw in a bit more and run air bags even.
Anyone on here run bags?
I don't want a full blown $10,000 suspension set up for a car that sits a lot.

 

Sickness91Z28 has air ride. His car is freakin' sweet!

 

My take is GR2s won't be enough shock for the car you are putting together. No matter you don't push it to the edge. You will still want balanced handling.
On the other hand, Koni Yellows could be overkill. They are almost there with a SBC up front. Your LS3 weighs a good deal less than the original motor. That is probably why your front end is so high.
I have a LS1 from a C5. On advice from Steve Spohn, I went with coil overs, 300 lb springs, and Koni reds. My Pro Kits on the rear made it look like a 4X4, so Sportlines are on the rear, with thinner spring isolators. I am quite happy with my ride and handling. The sig pic shows the ride height.
Good luck. Your car will be nice