I have decided to buy my own alignment tools.

I was looking at Quick Trick Alignment

I want something that will do everything so I was looking at http://www.quicktrickalignment.com/s...ck-pro-system/

I have alos been surfing ebay and seen old Snap On and Blue Point systems like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Blue-Point-WA-60B-Caster-Camber-Gauge-with-Box-/251272733111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8105a1b7
But I would need to get something to set the toe still but they have them and I could make something if I had to. Toe looks pretty simple to fab up some tools for.

Anyway what do you recommend? I don't want to spend $5,000 on some laser thing because its just not needed. I have plenty of time to do mine because I'm not working in a production shop. This is just for my cars ALL OF THEM and maybe some friends cars.

 

I did not do that eBay ad!!! I don't know how that happened!!

 

You need a jig to hold the top of the strut when setting the caster and camber. Loosening the bolts changes both settings at the same time. The jig allows you to adjust and hold the strut in the caster position while setting the camber adjustment. The simple and inexpensive wheel attachments will only let you do a 2 wheel alignment. Very few vehicles can get away with a 2 wheel alignment. A 4 wheel alignment makes sure the vehicle doesn't dogtrack plus if you have adjustable LCA, you can adjust the diff.

Setting the toe has a left side and a right side adjustment. Even though the toe may be set within limits, it doesn't mean the wheels are pointed straight to the car.

Unless you're going to do a lot of alignments in the future, it's easier and cheaper to just take it into an alignment shop and having it done properly.

 

Can you buy this Jig or is it better to fab something up? Is it really needed? I don't have to take it 100% loose to bump it around with a rubber mallet. I could put jack bolts there if I have to to move it around.

I plan on doing many in the future. I may decide to lower my car in the morning. I may try more camber or toe out. I don't know for sure but I do know I want to try different settings to see how it reacts. At $65 a pop I can pay for tools pretty quick.

Plus am a DIY kind of guy. LOL

 

Just to add to the confusion. LOL

Here are some pics taken with my web cam so they suck but they are from the Pontiac Service Manual from 1987. The one for my car.

There is a tool but it looks like a modded turnbuckle to me. Should be simple to make if I cant find one. Or if its totally needed.

The other is the factory alignment specs. Funny they say nothing about the -0.5* difference for the drivers side castor for road crown.

 

You can fabricate something but a basic turnbuckle may not be strong enough. I've seen home made pieces slip off since there's only a small lip on the fender for it to attach to.

The tool is required to do alignments on third gens. It's impossible to set the caster and camber at the same time without the tool.

The alignment slots at the top of the strut only give limited adjustment. When I had my car done years ago, I wanted as much caster as possible without tearing it apart to make the slots longer. The most I could get was 4* and I wanted 5-6. Using an aftermarket top piece with a nice bearing inside instead of a bushing offers more alignment range.

Road crown compensation is a thing of the past. With multi lane highways, driving in the far left lane with staggered caster won't work.

Zero to 1/16" toe in, Zero camber, 3-4* caster will work for just about every application no matter how your suspension is set up. Keeping everything straight keeps your tires from wearing out too quickly. Extra caster makes the wheels want to go straight but also makes turning harder if really excessive.

 

Alky, I am going to respectfully disagree with just about everything.

No big deal I don't want to debate it I am just wondering what type of tools are best.

I should add I have not drag raced in years. I'm more of an autox type of guy.

 

There is alot to setting up a car from scratch- I do not even want to get into stringing a chassis.

But lets just say you are making tweaks to your alignment like you are stating- the rearend is already squared by a previous alignment and you just want to throw a little more agressiveness to the frontend for the track on Sunday- then return it back to normal readings on Monday- then yes youa re on the right track. THe magnetic guages are far les expensive but you need to make sure you have steel wheels so you can magnetically clip the unit onto the center hub area of the wheel. These are nice becasue they do NOT fall off.

The gauge you showed is alot like the Longacre equipment I have. The problem you face with a third gen is when you start banging on the strut mount to move it with a rubber mallet, you'd better have another person hanging onto the setup or it will come crashing right off the rim and onto the ground in a heartbeat. You also need to remove it anytime you jack the car for making adjustment movement easier (as you stated just barely loosening the bolts enough to bang it into place and not slip completely all over the place- you have to get most of the weight off the wheel, not all, but most. You then need to drop the car ontot he ground, roll it back 10 feet, shake the chassis, and then roll it forward into position again on the marked floor so as to sttle the chassis after jacking it. You THEN reattach the gauge assembly to the wheel and take reading- again and again until you have the desired readings. It takes a little experience to do it quickly- Ive done my share and know the in's and out's.

With that said, its a bear to get things exactly accurate, but patience will prevail. Its the reason I (one of these days) am making Black mamba a n adjstable 3 pt STB that is actually welded to his strut mounts perminantly. He needs to get his car out of storage so we can do this project...That's a hint Val (clears throat)

Toe is easy, you just again need the experience as to setting the pitman straight and know which tierod to adjust. Easier to do one if going to the track for a day and need a slight toeout. So which one? What direction does the track go? you lengthen the inside radius one so if the track does mainly rights, you touch the right one, etc. Then you make sure you put the right one back when you are done playing.

 

Ok so my first choice is the only choice.

I am a little surprised no one else does this, but, oh well.

I will order them this weekend.

As far as the strut mount. If it is a problem I know I can make up something with jack bolts to move it around pretty simple. Plus that way I will have 2 settings dialed in at all times.

 

Any updates? Did you buy the quick trick kit?

 

FWIW, those turnbuckle things show up on ebay quite often.

 

I know this is probably too late for you rawley, but I’ve had pretty good results just using a craftsman angle finder accurate to .1°. I don’t have a nice frame to measure to the outside of the wheel, but the spokes are flat enough on the CCW’s or the stock GTA wheels to be easy to measure on. I’ve taped a string bubble level on the top to make sure I’m measuring straight up and down. A 4-5’ level and some floor tiles work great for leveling out the floor under the car. Caster I usually just max out and leave unless the car is pulling to one direction or the other. I would string line the car with 4 jackstands to make sure the rear end is square to the car the first time, but after that I’d just use toe plates on the front and leave the back as is.

For a dual use autox car/aggressively driven street car I wouldn’t be afraid of 1.5°-2.0° of negative camber, just make sure toe is as close to zero as you can manage. In my experience negative camber doesn’t kill tires all by itself. It’s when it's combined with toe that it concentrates all that wear on the inside of tires. If you’re still on stock bushings and strut mounts zero toe may deflect into toe out and cause the car to wander a little on the highway though.

If you still need more camber while autocrossing I'd mark the strut mounts at two positions and run zero toe and ~1° of camber on the street. Moving the struts for more camber at events will add some toe out and help with turn in.

 

I saw a broken connection from here for our DIY Pro Alignment system.. Thanks for the posts. We have recently enhanced the QuickTrick Pro system, so the new link is here:

I am headed to the 48 Hour Corvette Build next week at Ridetech. Anyone else going? It will be live online.
They will be using a QuickTrick to align. The link for the corvette build is here:
http://www.ridetech.com/48hourcorvette/

http://www.quicktrickalignment.com/s...uicktrick-pro/

Thanks all! Spring arrives tomorrow in Alabama!

Tess

 

I bought an alignment took that does toe as well for like $235 from summit. Works on 17-21" rims. I had to as my car us too low for alignment shops. I hope to put it to good use in the spring.

 

Here's some Ron Sutton suggestions:
Setting front end geometry / Level 1 Minimum
• Toe plates with 2 tape measures
• Caster/Camber Gauge with magnetic mount
• ALLSTAR Caster Plate/Spindle Degree Tool
• Digital level/Angle Gauge/Inclimeter (just different names for the same tool)
• Jack
• Pair of 12” x 12” “Grease Plates”
(.040”-.060” sheetmetal pieces with grease between them … under 1 tire … so the suspension can relax after changes)

*This will allow you to set caster, camber, ackerman & toe … and with the springs out … check dynamic camber & dynamic toe (aka bump steer). Everything here happens with the tires & wheels “on.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Setting front end geometry / Options
• Bump steer gauge … simply quicker & more accurate than checking bump steer with toe plates & a jack.
• Turn plates … to more accurately measure the tire angles for checking caster, ackerman, dynamic camber & dynamic toe (aka bump steer).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis & Suspension Set-up Tools / In addition to front end tools
• One or more cheap, repeatable scales with 1000-1500# capacity
• Tape measure (for checking ride height)
• Two jack stands & string (to string alongside chassis as straight edge)
• Use tape Measure (for front & rear spacer & track width settings)
• Use Digital level/Angle Gauge/Inclimeter to set 3 or 4-link angles & pinion angle
• Homemade wheel stands … exactly the same height (to check angles under the car with the suspension loaded)

Or …

• Ride height gauges or custom cut ride height blocks
• Set of purchased wheel stands, like Joes 10” versions.
• Set of digital race car scales (wireless is worth every cent if you can afford them)
• Scale stands, roll offs or platen. Must level them to each other. Do not use them on the floor. Low tech is to shim them level with sheetmetal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Measuring Suspension Points
To Calculate Roll Centers, Motion Ratios, Swing Arm Lengths, Camber Gain, Anti-squat, etc.
• Good, readable tape measure.
• 6” digital caliper.
• Short laser level (6-10”)
• Various squares: framing, speed & Tri-squares
• Roll of String (Construction grade)
• 2-4 Bob weights
• Chalk line (blue will come off your floor eventually. Red is not coming out … ever)
• Removable masking tape (Blue 3M works best)
• Sharpie fine point marker(s)
• Brake Cleaner & paper towels
• Note pad & pens

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the Track / Level 1 - Minimum
To take key readings for car performance & tuning
• Quality tire pressure gauge
• Stop watch (for timing your competitors in sections to learn)
• Tire pyrometer (probe type only)
• Infrared pyrometer (for brake rotor temps)

At the Track / Options
• Tire Durometer … to know when a tire goes away or if you received a funky tire.
• Tire purge tools (to get air out)
• Nitorgen tank (to adjust tire pressures, add nitrogen to new tires & purge tires in between rounds.)
• Nitrogen Gas pressure gauge if your shocks have adjustable pressures
• On-board data acquisition systems
• Weather Station
• Plus … if you’re really hardcore … most of your setup tools.

 

Then tool recommendations (not sure if links will work):
*The bold, blue text tools are my recommendations if they fit your needs & your budget.

ENCO “Best” Digital Level/Angle Gauge/Inclimeter … go HERE.
ENCO “Good” Digital Level/Angle Gauge/Inclimeter with less features … go URL="http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=240-0341"]HERE[/url].
ENCO “OK” Digital Level/Angle Gauge/Inclimeter, less accurate … go HERE.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOES Digital Billet Bump Steer Gauge … go HERE

JOES Digital Level/Angle Gauge … go HERE
JOES Caster Camber Gauge w/magnetic adapter … go HERE
JOES Caster Camber Gauge W/GM spindle Adapter … go HERE

JOES Basic Tire Pyrometer … go HERE
JOES Infrared Pyrometer (for brake temps) … go HERE
JOES Dial Shore A Durometer … go HERE
JOES Digital Tire Gauge 0-60psi … go HERE

JOES Billet Toe Plates … go HERE
JOES Economy Toe Plates … go HERE

JOES 10" Wheel Stands … go HERE
JOES Fuel Cup … go HERE
JOES Double end AN Wrenches … go HERE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALLSTAR Digital Caliper … go HERE
ALLSTAR Smart Tool/Digital Level/Angle Gauge … go HERE
ALLSTAR Smart Tool Tray that clips on 3 & 4-link tubes … go HERE
ALLSTAR Digital Level/Angle Gauge … go HERE

ALLSTAR Caster Plate/Spindle Degree Tool … go HERE
ALLSTAR Spindle Checker Tools … go HERE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intercomp E-Z WEIGH SCALE SYSTEM – Wired … go HERE
Intercomp SW787™ WIRELESS SCALE SYSTEM … go HERE
Intercomp Aluminum Turn Plates … go HERE

Intercomp Scale Pads, Roll-offs … go HERE
Intercomp home page: Great resource for racing test equipment … go HERE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Longacre Aluminum Turn Plates … go HERE
Longacre Computer Scales Basic System - Wired … go HERE
Longacre Scale Pads, Roll-offs & Platens … go HERE

Longacre Digital Memory Tire Pyrometer & 4-Car Lap Timer … go HERE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Craftsman Digital Torpedo Level … go HERE
Craftsman 10 in. Digital LaserTrac® Level … go HERE
Sears 6” Digital Caliper … go HERE

Craftsman 16 oz. Plumb Bob, Brass … go HERE

Craftsman 12 in. Tri-Square … go HERE
Craftsman 16 x 24 in. Aluminum Framing Square … go HERE
Swanson Speed Square … go HERE

Stanley 1 in. x 25 ft. Steel Tape Measure, PowerLock … go HERE
Strait-Line Fast Retrieve Chalk Reel with 4 oz. Blue Chalk … go HERE
3M Scotch Blue Painters Masking Tape … go HERE
Sanford Retractable Ultra Fine Sharpie Markers … go HERE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harbor Freight Plumb Bob … go HERE
Harbor Freight 8 Oz. Brass Plumb Bob … go HERE
Harbor Freight Construction String … go HERE
Harbor Freight Chalk Line Reel with Blue Chalk … go HERE

Harbor Freight 25 ft. x 1" Tape Measure … go HERE
Harbor Freight 16" Tri-Square … go HERE
Harbor Freight 12" Tri-Square … go HERE
"L" Square Set with Levels … go HERE
Harbor Freight 6" Digital Caliper … go HERE

 

THat is a lot of money for a Camber and Toe gauge. It can not do CASTER accurately. Why? The level will not center on the spindle. It is too high and does not have any way to be centered with adjustment on the exact wheel center. Yu can not get accurate caster readings with that.


Dean