I'm making my car a little bit more enjoyable, especially for passengers. Today, I adjusted windows and TTops so it no longer sounds like we are in an Airplane at highway speeds.

Now I'm working on suspension. I'm looking into getting a Strut tower brace along with sub frame connectors. I am concerned that stiffening the chassis this much more will provide a harsher ride. As of now I would rather have a comfortable ride over better handling.

I know these two parts will both will increase handling, but will this have a negative impact on ride quality?

I have new KYB struts and shocks with new MOOG springs.

 

I'd use them. I think the benefit will outweigh any slight NVH increase.

-- Ramey

 

Just about everything you do to make the car handle better will make it a little less passenger friendly. You've got to decide on the balance. If you do something and you don't like it you can undo it. Welding not so easy so maybe use bolt on/in parts when you can.

 

I'd suggest that eliminating rubber parts—motor mounts, trans mount and the various bushings—with, say, poly contributes more to a harsher ride than installing the SFC's and STB. BTW, I'd consider after market strut mounts before the STB itself.

JamesC

 

I agree 100%.

The SFC won't make the car ride any harder at all. What I found is that it makes the car feel like the wheel base has been shortened. By that I mean that instead of getting a bit of wobble at say the front right end of the car, the whole car feels more contained and centralized. This is a good thing. It's much the same as getting new struts and shocks. With old struts/shocks, if one tire goes over a bump, then that corner will wobble and bounce while the rest of the car holds still. With new struts/shocks, that same bump over one tire results in the car feeling more contained.

To put it another way, the C5 Corvette was aprox 50% stiffer than the C4 in terms of chassis strength. The C7 Corvette is 57% stiffer than the C6 (which was stiffer than the C5). Yet nobody complains about newer Corvettes riding too hard. Chassis strength is a good thing. You're getting rid of vibration, squeaks, rattles, as well as increasing the predictability of the car.

A strut tower brace alone won't do much. Because the upper strut mounts themselves are made of rubber. It's like taking two pieces of jello and then connecting them together by putting a tooth pick on the tops of the jello. You need to get rid of the jello (the upper strut mounts) if you want to upgrade the front end twisting motions. Only then does the strut tower brace do it's job of strengthening the front end.

I also prefer strut mount upgrades because they don't get in the way. While the strut brace is just another thing in the way.

 

I bought weld in outer sfc and did not notice a harder ride. Car feels so much stronger. When you turn sharp you feel the car has better respond and no body sway

 

When I installed the STB on my Camaro, it rode BETTER. The bump energy used to cause the front end to flex. It was something that I'd never noticed until I put in the STB and it stopped happening. The result was that the suspension was absorbing the energy like it should, instead of that energy causing flex in the front end. The car felt less like a rickety wooden wagon.

 

Ok thanks for the input. I will go ahead and get a set of subframe connectors.

Some require rerouting the exhaust. What bolt on connectors are truly bolt on, without having to mess with the Y pipe/cat back?

 

Jegster bolt-in / weld in SFCs seem to allow the most clearence. I've had them installed for years and have used several different exhaust set-ups in that time; NEVER had to move anything, even after installing Dyno Dons Headers and Y-pipe.

 

I was under the impression that these required cutting into the floorpan.

 

Installation requires drilling holes thru the floor.







Excuse the nasty mounting bolts. The pics were taken after a dozen or so years of use; many of those years it was a year-round car. Here's the only pic I could find of the pass side body rail / SFC.



That pic was taken after they were removed and re-installed. Before removing the SFC a couple years back I had considered laying an additional layer body sheet metal along the bolt holes,...... but once I had it apart I realized there was no need. I'll also add that after those dozen or so years there was NO elongation of the rear control arm bolt holes or the front holes. I might not 'race' my Berlinetta; but I drive pretty hard.

 

Here's a look @ Hotchkis Weld-In's. Notice how far BELOW the body rail/rocker panel that SFC fits when mounted.



In this pic the Y-Pipe is NOT attached to the headers yet....... I could NOT fit Don's Y-Pipe as delivered, it had to be cut and re-welded to clear the SFC. I doubt anything aftermarket would fit in there without modifications. I never tried factory TPI parts but I guess *maybe* a TBI/LG4 Y-Pipe *might* fit without hitting the SFC or the body. ( But who wants that !?!? )

 

I wouldn't expect the elongation of the area of the rear LCA area, I would have expected to see something on the area of the floor that they were bolted to.

 

There's a good bit of clamping area up front on those Jegster's. It's held pretty tightly to the bottom sheet metal.

I installed a set of Jegster's on a worn TA a year ago. They made a noticeable difference but not as dramatic as the set of GWs I put on a Camaro several years ago. That car flexed like crazy but is much tighter and solid.

 

Our SFC's tuck very nicely and have zero exhaust clearance issues.

The pass side bracket is able to be left off when running a large y-pipe.

 

I don't understand your analogy. You analogy would suggest our strut towers are made of rubber (jello), which they are not. The STB (STRUT TOWER brace) is designed to connect the strut towers to prevent them from moving independently of each other. They are effective in this manner regardless of strut mount type. The loads from the suspension on the strut tower are the same regardless of strut mount type.

 

Sure they are. The stock upper strut mounts have a rubber setup. All the aftermarket upper strut mounts (UMI, Founders, J&M, Spohn, etc) replace that with a spherical bearing. This removes the slop that the stock setup has (which can move both side to side as well as front to back). This is why everybody who installs aftermarket strut mounts says the car reacts faster to steering input.

Going with an aftermarket spherical bearing upper strut mount means that 100% of the motion of the front end of the car car goes through the struts.

The strut tower brace is supposed to balance everything out, so that when one side moves, the the reactive force of the other side keeps things in check. But where does that energy come from in the first place? Through the upper strut mounts. It would be like putting Koni struts and shocks on a car with H-rated snow tires and then wondering why it doesn't handle very well on a summer day.

 

Again, the purpose of the STB is to connect the strut towers, not the struts themselves. If your goal is to the connect struts themselves, then I would make a bar to do this.

Again, the loads are the same regardless of strut mount design. Its simply a matter is transient response as a function of mount compliance.

 

That would truly be a wonderbar v2.0 -- LOL

The problem with truth is that it makes a claim on us. Post-moderns reject anything that is not subject to them. Death and gravity subject us, nevertheless! Reminds me of pedophiles who do not like the label - pedophilia. They correctly determine that the word is pejorative (calling sin, sin) so they prefer a new better sounding label ---> inter-generational intimacy . John, I like your posts. Lately, it seems a few have a hard time accepting the truth, or just bad communication on-line (easy to do). Be encouraged.

STB is a great addition to aftermarket strut mounts. Back in the day when Kenny Brown still made f-body stuff, I got this:

Anything that helps control weight xfer and forces the parts to do the job intended is going to be greatly beneficial. I do not interpret that as harsh, but controlled. Springs and dampers would be cause for harsher ride, IMO.

 

That fits great with the LS. Yes, online is hard. And agreed, a strut tower brace will not make the car ride harsher. I have gone quite stiff and found it does not ride harsh at all. Its simply a matter of picking good components and making sure you aren't bottoming out the suspension. My car rides WAY better than stock with the Koni Sports, 850lb front springs and 2" lower.

 

Thanks for all the input guys!

I went with Jegs Bolt on Subframe connectors. The install wasn't that bad at all. It took about 4 hours. And that 4 hours consisted of taking my time, a trip to homedepot for drill bits, and dinner. I could do it again in an hour or two.

As far as ride quality. It improved alot. The body is much more stiffer. In a good way. During casual driving, bumps are no longer as harsh. I believe this is due to the fact of the decrease of rattles and the stiffer body. So a bump no longer makes the entire car jolt. It got rid of some squeaks and rattles that I have yet to track down.


Performance wise, it is night and day. I blamed my one wheel peel during heavy cornering on a "worn" posi unit. I was wrong. It was the body flexing allowing the inside wheel to lift. With the SFC's the rear is more planted during cornering which keeps the inside wheel from lifting. I can now accelerate out of a corner much quicker. I think that was the biggest single improvement of the install. Other improvements are an increase in responsiveness and stability.

Driving the car at highway speeds was a little difficult for me before the SFC's. The car would wander a tad and somehow get me in situations where over correcting was prone. I thought this was due to worn suspensions parts. My suspension parts are still on the way.(Ball joints, steering box, Center link, etc) It will truly be a different car once those are replaced. However somehow the SFC's improved the high speed driving. (Over 75mph)

love my new install. It definitly makes it feel like I am no longer riding in a wooden wagon. The STB and strut mounts are on it's way aswell.

Again, thanks for the input.

 

I did all the improvements and more. My car handles like it is on rails but I payed for it in ride. It is harsh but not real bad. It was well worth it to me but I wasn't interested in ride.

If you want ride quality don't do anything to it. You already have Koni's and they effected my ride alittle too.

When you find the best of both worlds let me know.