I just replaced my stock sway bar on my 89 Camaro with the Spohn 1" bar/end-links. I also replaced the stock panhard bar with the Sinister adjustable panhard bar. I did all of this just this past Saturday. I love the improvement, but I noticed today that the bottom end-link bushing on the passenger side is missing, already. This bushing was also missing on the stock bar when I took it off. This leads me to believe that there is another issue happening here. Any ideas as to what is going on?

Thanks!

 

Can you take pictures? Look close and see if there is a sharp edge or something that could tear that bushing up. Compare to the drivers side.

 

I may be able to get pics by/on the weekend.

All of the contact points are brand new out of the box. I think either I overtightened the end-link or possibly I need a longer set of end links because they're at an angle where the bar meets the end-link that puts an angled pinch on the bushing. I'm thinking longer end-links are in order. At $30 a pop, it's not to much to just invest in them anyway. The ones that came with the bar seem a bit short.

It's really odd that it's the same side and bushing as the one that was missing on the stock bar before I replaced it all.

 

I'm guessing you are doing this with the vehicle on jackstands? Friend did this and had same issue.

 

Yeah, originally I did have the car on stands, but lowered it to tighten the U-bolts (I had read to do that on a thread here, somewhere, to load the rear before tightening the U-bolts).

I'm pretty sure that the end-links that came with the Spohn bar were too short. I located some Energy end-links of different lengths and bushing thicknesses on Jegs. So, this weekend I plan on measuring the spacer-area and order some longer end-links and thicker bushings. Does that sound like the right course of action?

 

did you tighten the end links while the suspension was loaded too? or just the u-bolts? cause both have to be done when loaded

 

No, actually, I tightened the end-links and then loaded the suspension and tightened the U-bolts as the other thread suggested.

I'll tighten them all while the suspension is loaded this time, though.

 

Anyway you can post some pictures? Interesting.

EDIT: I would retighten the endlinks under vehicle load and see if it changes anything. Surprsies me Spohn would send bushing that would be short.

 

Yeah, I'll take pics while I'm under it this weekend taking measurements to order new end-links.

 

Ok, after taking another look at the suspension, there are a couple of things I need to mention.

First, since my 'lysdexia' (snicker) was kicking in, I got the dimensions wrong in my head. I need shorter end-links, not longer.

Secondly, there may be an issue with the new springs I just put on. When I bought them a couple of years ago, I was sure I was buying stock-length rear springs from Eibach, but I'm thinking I may have got the lowered ones, but not intentionally. When I removed the stock springs, the new Eibach springs were the same height when compared side by side to the stock springs. So, I installed them. After I got the car back on the ground, it appears to me, and others who have taken a look, that it sits a tad lower than it did before I swapped out the springs. I really wasn't going for a lower rear-end, I wanted to stay stock and I was certain, at the time, that I was buying stock-height springs.

In hind-sight, if I did end up with lowered springs, that could explain the longer end-link problem. However, from the angle in the pics, you can see it looks like the sway bar is long and throws the end-links out of line to be perpendicular to the sway-bar.

I should also mention that I lined up the notches in the u-bold saddles to the tabs on the axle. If I hadn't, the saddle would have rotated around the axle and I wasn't confident that it would be 'ok' to let the saddle rotate around the axle since it's obviously and intentionally built to fit the notch from the factory. Is it ok to let the saddle rotate around the axle? If so, that could also serve to solve a lot of problems.







EDIT: For reference, this is the sway-bar I installed:
http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...rome-Moly.html

 

So it seems that the rear springs I installed MUST be lowering springs since I cannot find, for the life of me, a set of stock height rear springs. I really thought I had bought stock height rear springs. Does anyone know where I can find some new stock height rear springs?

 

That doesn't look right at all.

Looks like it's not even the right sway bar. ("arms" are too long, by about 2")

The links should be perpendicular to the way bar, straight up and down, not skeewawed and wopplejawed off at some bizarre angle like that.

Stock height rear springs are pretty commonplace. Easiest way to get em is Moog CC635. But that won't fix the problem.

 

Here's what it SHOULD look more like... to the extent you can tell... please excuse the crappy pic.

 

Autozone

 

That's what I'm talking about. It does look long, but it's sold as an upgrade to stock. I does mention that they are a perfect match to the front swaybar (non-issue) and that they're good for drag applications, but there's no specification, so it should fit.:

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...rome-Moly.html

I'm thinking stock height springs and shorter end-links will help sort the issue out.

Thoughts?

 

No, don't think that'll help.

The arms are simply too long. The holes in the bar are supposed to be directly under the holes in the chassis. They're not. Doesn't matter how much you raise or lower anything; it's front-to-rear that they have the problem.

I'd suggest contacting them and seeing if they have some other part they can offer, or if they'll take that one back; and get some other one that fits.

 

Alright, well, I'm looking into it, sent messages to Hawks and Spohn. While I was perusing their FB page I noticed this pic:

https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/...20456477_n.jpg

It looks like his ends are too long, also. It's as if Spohn makes them this way on purpose.

 

Agreed the bar looks too long, and the mounting tabs/holes are at a bad angle with the end link. The longer legs give the car more leverage on the bar making it easier to torque the bar. In essence it is making the bar seem less stiff.

 

Judging from this pic and your pic...it seems to me that sway bar is upside down. The flare end goes down on yours and goes up in the example pic.

 

No, it's stiff as hell. I like the feel of the car even with the missing bushing. It's much stiffer than the stock bar, but obviously, it can be a good bit stiffer.

 

What 87 is saying is, if the arms were the right length but everything else about the bar was the same, it would be ALOT stiffer.

I don't think Steve "makes" that sway bar; but I don't know that.

You are correct that the little strip welded to the tube is supposed to retain the U-bolt in the proper orientation. It's supposed to go just exactly there, and nowhere else.

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

Well, at this point, I'm just awaiting responses from Hawks and Spohn on what to do about this bar.

 

The stiffness of a sway bar is directly proportional to the CUBE of its diameter (i.e. double the dia, it becomes 8 times stiffer), and inversely proportional to the length of the arms and the length between the pivots (i.e. double either of those and it becomes half as stiff) and of course directly proportional to the Young's modulus of the material it's made of

 

What have you got for spring isolators? (That's the piece of rubber or poly that goes between the spring and the body) Are they stock? You could try the aftermarket ones you can get now… they have only thick ones from what I could find. That would raise you up some.
What strikes me most about your pics are the angle of the lower control arm. After you get ride height figured out, check the sticky at the top of the Forum about it. LCA relocation brackets are desirable, even on some cars with stock springs. Right now, yours are angled the wrong way. Getting that sorted out will do wonders for your driving experience.

 

Unless the isolator is the piece that has the indexing notch in it, this car has no separate isolator.
I watched Klowny's video and the one he was working on is the same. The only isolators I know of that are separate are the front spring isolators.

I don't get how all of this can be so wrong when the car is completely stock other than the new parts I put on. Even the LCAs are Edelbrock specifically made for this model. The car has never been wrecked, I don't get how my car can be so different than others. When I look at the pic of my end-links compared to the other pic (https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/...20456477_n.jpg) The end of the sway bar looks like it's at the same angle as mine. It has the same pinch on the bottom bushings and everything. It's not parallel to the ground (though it is on ramps, you can see it wouldn't be parallel to the ground), and the post that pic came from has everyone saying it 'looks great', as if the pinch is supposed to be that way. Mind boggling.

 

Got a pic of the sway bar at the pumpkin?

 

Not at the moment. I can tell you the contour in the center curves toward the ground, that's how I figured it's supposed to mount.

I ordered new stock-height constant rate Moog rear springs, new end-links (the only way I could get another bushing) and new KYB GR-2 shocks. This stuff has to fit one way or the other, I'll even try flipping the bar at this point.

I'll be selling some Eibach 1.6" rear lowering springs regardess. I also have some Eibach 1.3" lowering front springs that I'm not even going to install. I've decided to keep the car at stock height.

 

IMO, the center part of the sway-bar curves down so you can access the differential bolts. There should also be room to jack the car up via the pumpkin.

I would take that sway bar out and compare it to your stock one. Try to measure the difference in arm lengths not only from the bend to the farthest point, but also from the length outward from the main part of the bar.

Is it possible that you ordered one for the wrong year? What is the part number of the one you ordered & received?

This is the 25mm sway-bar which should be the 1” you're referring to.
http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...-Rear-Bar.html

Here is the “Pro-Series. Check out how they compare the sway-bars side to side (Click on the image, and then the third pic down on the RH side). Do the same with yours and see how they compare.
http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...-Sway-Bar.html

 

LCA relocation thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...arm-angle.html
isolators are the piece of rubber, or polyurethane, that goes over the rear spring, to protect the body of the car, from the metal spring. The rears for our cars are hard to find now. 10-15 years ago, they were for sale everywhere. They will typically add 1/2" to 1" to your ride height- depends on the isolator. I had them in two different thicknesses. To get my car down, I used skinny aftermarket ones.

 

That's what I figured, as well.

I compared them when I did the change, and the new bar looked like a match to the stock one only much thicker.

This is the one I ordered for 82-92. It can't be the wrong year unless they forgot to note that it fits all 82-92 EXCEPT 89 /OR they put the wrong bar in the box at Spohn (there's no Pt# directly on the bar itself):
http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...rome-Moly.html

Hawks Pt# :SP923-Rear

Yep, that's the bar I ordered, only I ordered the black finish.
Hawks Pt# :SP923-Rear
Spohn Pt #: 923-Rear

That's basically what I did, only I laid the bars on top of each other so see the distance from the ends to the connection point on the axle.






Yeah, know what an isolator is, but I wasn't sure they considered these as rear isolators since they're not rubber, have an indexing groove and are attached to the car instead of coming out with the spring like the front isolators do. Mine are just like the one in this video (5:55 mark):

I don't really want to add any height, I just want to keep it stock but with upgrade parts.





I want to say thanks to everybody for trying to help me sort this out. You guys are great. Thanks a ton.

 

These cars, and 4th gens, all use the same sway bars. (dimensionally, at least... 4th gen are usually smaller dia however and not near as stiff)

Spohn's aren't really "sway bars", exactly; they're "anti-roll bars", for drag racing. Might look the same, and seem to serve the same purpose; but not really optimized in tandem with the front bar. They're WAY overkill for street use and might well make the handling WORSE than stock ones.

Unless you're drag racing and your launch is so hard you're pulling the left front wheel but not the right, or the car takes off toward the wall (usually toward the right), that's probably not the best choice for your car anyway. You'd probably do better to look at products from BMR, UMI, Hotchkiss, Hellwig, etc., designed for street cars, in the range of 22 - 25 mm depending on what front bar you have.

Isolators, different springs, etc. won't fix your issue. None of that stuff will shorten the arms of that bar which is the only actual solution to your problem.

 

Looks Like Your Sway Bar Should Have More Bend To It Here.

 

Sorry I wasn't much help Warrior Pitbull, it looks like you covered pretty much everything I suggested. If the bars match up then the only other thing I can think of is comparing yours to another F-body to see if there are any differences in length somewhere.
I think that gt4373 does have a good point about the final bend though.

 

No need to feel sorry, every bit of help is good. I agree, my bar doesn't even have that bend. It's kinda crazy.

 

I got it hashed out. Just as I originally thought, the 2 Inches that the Eibach Sportline springs dropped the rear-end made a huge difference in the angle of the sway-bar to the frame of the car. This bar is obviously made for stock-height spring applications.

When I put new Moog stock-height rear springs back on and new KYB shocks, the angle of the ends of the bar changed since the body/frame of the car sits higher off of the rear-end and made a more level connection for the sway-bar and hence a more perpendicular connection for the end-links.

The car sits right and handles exponentially better, and it hasn't lost a bushing. I call this fixed.

Thanks for all the help.


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