So far I have cut my springs both front and rear, which improved ride height and quality. Definitely firmer ride. I installed poly end link bushing as there were no bushings at all on the car! Definitely felt a huge improvement there! Next I'll be getting shocks and struts, and then sfc's. Am I moving in the right direction?

 

I don't know about cutting springs but any improvement to the suspension is a move in the right direction. A lot of people forget how important a good suspension is to a cars power to handling abilities.

 

I almost got into the drivetrain before doing the suspension but now I'm hooked! I want to do everything I can with the suspension!

 

A good place to start would be braking or steering as we use(take for granted) them the most. On my Iroc I am currently replacing my steering center link, idler arm, pitman, tie rods and tie rod adjustment sleeves all with proforged components. Next I need a good power steering pump and them I shall move to springs, shocks, sfc, and so on.

Have you read any of the stickies on the suspension?

 

Yes you are - shocks and struts wear out over time - replacing them with Koni Yellows (as an example), would give you better than GM ever put on those cars when new. Subframes - absolutely yes!

I'm also going to suggest a few other items to put on your short list:

1) Rear control arms (factory ones are garbage)

2) Panhard rod - same reason as #1 above

3) More aggressive wheels and tires - a 275-40-17 tire on a 17" x 9.5" wheel is a monstrous improvement over OEM 15" or 16" choices.

 

I currently have the iroc factory 16 inch wheel. I want better tires but don't want to change speedo and such.

 

I've read through the lowering and suspension 101, I've already made a list that's like 2 pages long front and back lol. Steering is next.

 

Trying to decide between bilsteins and konis. I haven't even started on the rear, but I'm sure I will soon. Already checked out some 17x9.5, just waiting on my tax return.

 

Despite the fact that these are drag radials; I have used them for great cornering:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nit-180480/overview/

For track only:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nit-371070/overview/

For the OP; Like Paul said, good S&S should be on your list for body control. This will effect your handling and braking tremendously.

The cheapest thing I did was order all my steering parts from rock auto. My steering was very loose. Rebuilding everything (including steering box); and getting it aligned made a massive difference.

Also; founders has dirt cheap LCA's & panhard bar. I have not used them so I can not comment on their quality. But they are budget.

http://www.foundersperformance.com/p...d-Rod-Kit.html

 

Also aftermarket caster camber plates made a big difference on my car. I'll just copy my experience from an older post (almost a year old):

 

My steering is actually pretty tight, my power steering pump leaks from the pressure line though.

Shocks and struts
Sfc's
Strut mounts
Lca and phb
Anything else I should look into that won't kill my pockets?

 

How do I make a post? Sorry I feel dumb for asking this but I've tried everything.

 

What is your budget?

 

Sky's the limit, just a waiting period.

 

Get that power steering hose fixed. They aren't very expensive and they are easy to change. I had one blow and the fluid ignited on my headers.

Cutting the springs is a great way to save money as long as its done right. The sway bars is the only place i'd use poly.

If i bought strut mounts today i would buy Founders. They will probably be your best deal on lca's and phb too. Do a search on what ends to get. Poly can bind. Rod ends move the best but can have troubles with the dirt from the road and be very noisy on the street. I plan to use UMI roto-joints. I'm not sure if founders makes ends like that or not.

There are many SFC's. I liked BMR and UMI's the best but went with UMI's cause they were on sale the day I was ready to purchase. Other brands are Jegs, Global west, hotchkis (overpriced), alston, thats about half of them but all i can remember off the top of my head.

Struts and shocks will be a difficult choice cause you get what you pay for. At the very least buy KYB or tokico. Bilsteins are great but Koni yellows seem to be #1 for our cars. Nobody has ever regretted spending the money for koni's. there are some other new choices to research too. like the new vikings.

Good luck with your build. I can tell you from experience, its a blast smoking 400, 500, and 600hp cars on the autoX/RR track with a 200hp car cause of a good suspension.

 

Have you considered lowering with higher spring rates? I can give links if your interested in this...

Other parts to consider are your A-arms; how do the A arm bushings look on your car?

Then you can go into bracing like a strut tower brace.

Do you have a wonder bar installed? This is a very important piece to keep your front frame rail intact...
http://www.top-downsolutions.com/cha...-firebird-%28a

 

Good call. Can't believe i forgot that. Absolutely get a wonder bar!

 

Yes actually! I've read about the moog replacement springs and cutting them as well. I heard to stay away from variable rate springs. This was just temporary because my car handled like poop and it had a high front end due to the weight (2900lbs).

I'm sure the A arm bushings need replacing. I just did a front wheel bearing and it was the original wheel bearing from 84 lol. Just went out a few weeks ago, not bad!? I have a front sway bar sitting in the garage off of what looks like an Iroc I don't know if there's a difference or not. I'll look into a wonder bar as well. I want this car to handle like a go cart lol and take off like a corvette

 

For lowering you can either go with weight jacks (which drop right in and are height adjustable front & rear).

Or you can do what I'm doing:
Run 12" x 5.5" front free height racing spring from hypercoil. On a Factory v8 car i would go at least 900lb on the front:
http://pitstopusa.com/c-134738-sprin...x-12-tall.html

Depending on your cars weight your car may be slammed with the above 12" tall springs; or the springs may require trimming. I would not go this low until you have a fully adjustable suspension. I would say you would be around a 25" front fender height with these 12" springs.

On the rear you can run all star weight jacks so you can use a conventional 5" racing spring. (instead of being stuck with 5" pigtails)
http://pitstopusa.com/i-5066715-alls...uster-nut.html

You will be able to adjust your ride height in the rear with the allstar weight jacks; but I would paint them with POR-15 to keep rust at bay.
With the allstars you would need to run a 5" x 8" spring. Matched to the 900lb front springs would be 175lb rear rates. (This is with a 5:1 front to rear ratio)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lan-h175/overview/

Your spring rates may differ depending on the weight of your car. But 900lb Front and 175lb rear is a ball park guess for an iron v8 3rd gen.

This would all require some work to get it to your desired ride height. But it's been done before and works well.

For an easy install (no spring trimming) I would just go with the Ground Control weight jacks which are more expensive:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...hp/II=20/CA=86

Again keep in mind that going this low combined with higher spring rates will require good S&S. You would also need strut mounts since all the aftermarket ones give you about an extra inch of travel compared to the originals. (Your going to need that extra 1" of strut travel going low)

Depending on how low your wanting to go in the rear you may consider LCA relocation brackets. A JEGS panhard bar adjuster may also be appropriate.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/41...oductId=754011

Yet another problem that will happen going this low would be your front A-arms inverting in suspension travel.
Using extended ball joints will cure this problem.

Another thing is bump stops; use the Soft Progressive 19-24mm strut ones (Soft Strut):
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...tion.php/II=10

You will want to trim your Factory rear bump stops.

None of what I just listed is exactly "budget" but your car will handle EXCELLENT with a proper alignment & setting your sway bars and adjusting the S&S rebound to your favored specs. Plus you will have a great ride height/stance.

I wouldn't even try to go as low as I just described above until you get:
Koni yellow S&S
Aftermarket Strut mounts
Adjustable rear LCA's / Panhard bar
All steering parts checked and in good working order
Wonder bar
A good set of tires.

 

BTW post #19 was for slamming a 3rd gen while still having excellent handling.

If you just want a moderate drop then you could alwasy just stick with cut moogs at around a 26" front fender height and avoid all the little troubles that come with slamming a vehicle the right way.

That and the Prokit from eibach is ok as far as drop and rate are concerned.

Also Founders vogtland drop springs have some promising spring rates vs drop. But i have only seen a few actually use their drop springs.

Last and very least would be slamming your car to a 25" front fender height; but not using extended BJ's or adjustable suspension components. Your car will handle like crap but hey, it will be slammed!

 

As far as taking off like a corvette: Then you will need a good torque arm. Also sticky tires! These combined with Adjustable LCA's & panhard bar would keep your car planted in the corners and in the straights.

 

Thanks Alot for this detailed reply! Helps Alot in my decision! I will definitely keep all this in mind when I start ordering parts. Right now I have a front fender height of 25 3/4".

Just did an alignment today at work and my caster needs to be fixed. I'm at 2.4 on the left and 3.2 on the right. That's at max adjustment. I want to run about 4.5. Should I drill the plates? Camber was at -0.7 on the left and -0.6 on the right. I adjusted both to -1.0. Max was -1.5 I think. My initial toe was way off! Left was 0.69 and right was -1.22. Smh. I adjust both to -0.23.

After I adjusted it to the best I could I took it for a spin and it handles Alot better. I have the specs printed out. I'll post a picture. Also, on our alignment machine it only goes back to 1988 so I need to find the alignment specs for 84 so I can enter it manually.

 

A 25 3/4 front fender height is right on the line for the A-arm inversion problem.
At your ride height it's strange you cannot get any more caster then you have now. I would suggest getting some aftermarket Caster/camber plates. You should not need to drill anything.
Your -1 camber is excellent.

BTW: You have an awesome advantage compared to most others. You are able to do your own alignments. That means any time you reduce front weight or replace a stock worn out steering piece; you will be able to correct any change in your alignment yourself. Makes it way easier than relying on an alignment tech that may or may not do what you ask! Saves time and money.

Factory alignment specs are crap for 3rd gens.

You may have already seen this, but here is a general alignment guide on street 3rd gens:

 

Explain A arm inversion...is that when the arm is angled upward due to low ride height? I need to check the alignment one more time and actually enter the correct specs. I noticed on the sheet that the ride height that was entered wasn't correct. Yea working at a shop is really nice. You won't believe how many alignment gurus we have....I told them the specs I was going to adjust it to, and they said, "you don't want negative camber, why don't you put it dead straight?" Blah blah blah. Why do you want your toe out? Etc...although all my alignment specs were in the red after adjustment, the car handled a ton better. With more negative camber I had really good cornering grip and turn in improved Alot with toe out. These people know nothing about alignment for performance. As far as those alignment specs you posted I'm almost dead on for hard street use besides my caster angle. What's a good number for SAI and included angle?

 

Someone said you don't want negative camber?! pffft!
As far as toe out is concerned it is only unfavorable on high speed straight line set ups. Like you said toe out helps with corner entrance.

If I'm not mistaken; your SAI should be in the 14* range from the factory(Please correct me if I'm wrong). You will want to have your SAI readings even on both sides. What are your readings now?

 

I wish I had a diagram I could show you.
At a 25" front fender ride height your A-arms will be almost parallel to the ground. The A-arms will invert in compression of the suspension.

Installing extended BJ's will keep your A-arms further down which will improve your camber curve. I would go with HOWE .75" extended BJ's btw.

Another side effect of extended BJ's is they will raise your front roll center. On 3rd gen's with a front fender height of 25.5" or lower your front roll center is usually far below the cars body weight; which gives you massive front positive roll.
Raising your front roll center closer to the cars CG weight will give you a more neutral roll. Neutral roll is your goal if you want great lateral grip my friend!

 

Reminds me of the time I was at a local track event and a member wanted me to test drive his car on the track and critique it for setup changes and potential next upgrade ( Yes Raul if you are reading this I am talking about you)
After blasting it around AdamMP one lap and Raul leaning towards me yelling helmet to helmet what he can change next, I simply in a puzzled manner held up one finger telling him To give me a minute (scratching my head of course- I had never felt anything like it and needed to jump under the car for a look-see). I pulled in the pits and told him to let me give it a look over becasue something was not right. The car kept feeling like it was developing a flat tire into the corners and through, but then pumping back up to psi coming off. I though something was loose or cracked with the suspension....

...I get out and start wiggling the rear tires for axle movement and then notice in my hands the words "Drag Radials" as I look back and him laughing and gestured comically "WTF Raul, you trying to kill us?" True story.
It was the most uneasy feeling I ever had in a car.

Alignment, You need to get the camber back down to -0.7-0.8 range, and get the caster up to 4.5 left (min) and 4.8 right (Min) The car has large SAI so the caster is manditory. Too much static camber will start to make the car wander with wider sq edged performance tires. You want more of a dynamic camber build through caster. (Toe just keep at 3/32in) If you can get 5.5 right caster then do so, but not any more becasue bumpsteer will increase(keep the left within 0.5 of the right of course)

A arm inversion is bad when under lateral load. It will cause chassis dive on th outside front wheel and rduce camber effectiveness as well under the exagerated body roll the inversion will create (roll center moves inside and into the dirt)- it lays the chassis onto the outside wheel with no weight leverage on the inside wheel.

 

Have to throw in a quick plug for my company, check us out for LCA's and PHB!

Check out the link in my sig!

 

I'll have to take a look at the specs sheet again but I want to say around 13.5

 

Can I get extended ball joints from those same manufacturers? Explain positive roll and negative roll..

 

So with aftermarket camber plates I should be able to get my caster up to where I need it correct? I'll experiment with my camber after I get my caster set. What would cause such a low caster reading and not being able to adjust it any further? I need to do some more reading up on suspension as far as performance. I'm ASE cert. In steering and suspension but it's a whole different ball park when talking performance! Any one know of a decent article on suspension/steering specifically for thirdgens?

 

Here's the extended BJ's I would use: Part number 22429

http://www.howeracing.com/p-7938-how...its-k6145.aspx

On the above page next to "Add to Cart" click the drop down arrow and select 22429; it will say +.750 Stud Price: $73.70.

Don't accidentally purchase part # 22420; that is the part # for regular sized Ball Joints.

STG describes the positive roll 3rd gen's experience when slammed here:
I'm horrible at explaining stuff like this; he worded it better.
If I had some sort of drawing of the front of our cars suspension geometry points it would be way easier to understand since you can visually see it. Unfortunatley I do not have anything like that to show you.

 

I read it and I somewhat understand it. I'll have to do some searching.

 

LOL. Just out of curiosity; what kind of drag radials was Raul running?
I've used those Nitto 555 R's and it felt great on the track in a truck; but they are dot legal and have "two wide steel tread belts & two nylon tread cap plies" for handling. I never noticed the flat tire feeling coming into a corner.

Was he running just plain drag radials? I was thinkng about putting these 555 R's on my 3rd gen; But now you have me wondering if it would be a bad move...

 

MrB- You problem is most likely worn OEM a-arm bushings. You have a lower balljoint set-back due to this(in relation to the strut mount). It will also cause a loss in negative camber adjustment range.

NoShow- I have no clue, I drive alot of different cars and can not remeber details like that. I just know they were drag radials and slopped everywhere. I also run Hoosier SX's (full race slicks for ovaltrack) on a few Camaros and Firebirds and have had sissues witht he sidewalls slapping about because the cars are slightly too heavy for those tires. they are made for 2700 lb race weight (including driver).

Any respectable drag radial is not going to have great cornering characteristics because the sidewall needs to wrinkle to attain straightline traction. This is counter productive for cornering. this is also why you can not launch on a low profile performance tire with a thin sidewall- they just spin. Sidewall wrinkle takes out the harsh thrust impact and absorbs the load transfer to attain forward bite

 

Ok,that sounds about right then, because I have a bit of setback on both sides. I'll have to take another look at the bushings under there

 

I have the Founders roto-joint/poly lca's and rod-end/poly panhard bar, and they are a very quality piece. Fairy easy to install, didn't notice any binding, only that the ride after was night and day compared to the stock control arms and panhard bar. Might have felt a little better than the Lakewood poly/poly lca's that were on my old car, but I sold that car so long ago it wouldn't be a fair comparison.