When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Goals to continue after this great conversation; reduce un-sprung weight more (tubular control arms, lighter brakes. Reduce weight in front of and behind tires; get rid of flip lights and install projectors, aluminum bumper support. More lower chassis bracing especially in the front steering area
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
The two other custom chassis braces, where did you put them? And what did you modify on the STB?
Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod
The rear ears of the control arms flex inward, The steering box has slack flex in the frame rails and needs bracing (Don;t know if you realize I had 4 lateral braces on the front half of my car (one being the wonderbar of course which everyone else pretty much has, the STB was custom altered store bought piece, the last two we're entirely custom. These took out critical steering wheel movement at high chassis load in cornering. Steering movement that will cause a car to loose mechanical grip on a skid pad if not controllable. You wheels and tires are much heavier. Your brakes are much heavier. You do not have a racing locker, your axles are heavier, your driveshaft is much heavier, even my rearend gears were shaved road race r&p and an alum diff cover. My entore build was focused on weight reduction.
My polar weight is much lower just by a quick glimpse of each car. You have added a lot of stuff (aero wise) in front of the front wheels and in back of the rear wheels. My exhaust was lighter on more lower and center compact. I also had an alum bumper support, plastic headlights, and a lighttened radiator support. THe weight in front of the front wheels and the weight behind the rear wheels was focused on and reduce. I ,as stated above, then purposely added weight low and center in the chassis between the wheelbase. My chassis polar weight was far better distrubuted. All these little things add up. My car turned like a jetfighter. No other 3rd gen Ive ever driven or ridden in turns like mine did.. I will post up vids showing a comparison.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by Dreambird
The two other custom chassis braces, where did you put them? And what did you modify on the STB?
Hi Mike, You are either up late (back from oversea's) or you are early morning in Greece and getting ready for work. (Yes Mike and I talk a lot off these forums).
The STB I had to box the flexing tower brackets from the 3pt firewall arms stressing them.
The underneath tunnel brace (like a spreader bar) went between the motor and trans gap and kept pressure on the chassis just behind the rear ears where the A-arms mount to the chassis.
The upper steering brace you can not fit onto a V8 car. needs to be a shorter V6 motor to do it. Made a noticible difference where the wonderbar didn't make any steering feeling change. All a wonderbar does is brace a chassis from cracking. If the wonderbar improves the feel of the car then the chassis near the steering box was already damaged. The upper lateral brace I welded into the car just behind the steering box I put preload tension into it to take out any inward flex of the box/pitman arm during cornering loads. The tension eliminated some steering shaft transmission into the steering wheel. In other words, instead of the tires trying to drive the steering wheel, the steering wheel had better overall input over the tires.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by Dreambird
Goals to continue after this great conversation; reduce un-sprung weight more (tubular control arms, lighter brakes. Reduce weight in front of and behind tires; get rid of flip lights and install projectors, aluminum bumper support. More lower chassis bracing especially in the front steering area
You are a man of many means and a damn good fabricator. You would have eventually gotten to all that without my further help. You are doing great and are a very organized and intelligent person my friend. Proud of your progress.
Different type car but same priciple. here's the last time I had my Vette and Truck together in 2009. Pic is a little distorted but if you look close at my Vette I replace the pop up headlights into a fixed position and gutted all the underneath mechanics and vaccum system that operated them. I then covered them in the fixed position with aerodynamic lexan LeMans-type head light covers.
Again, taking weight off the nose of a car in front of the wheels.
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 04-06-2017 at 01:41 AM.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Actually getting ready for bed work overnight. Been thinking of making my brace 3pt. Also the brace at the trans tunnel has been in the back of my mind as well maybe it'll be a good time to knock that out while installing the 6 speed. The other sounds interesting I wish you had some pictures maybe I would be able to modify the install some. Thanks for the compliments, always trying to get better!
Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod
Hi Mike, You are either up late (back from oversea's) or you are early morning in Greece and getting ready for work. (Yes Mike and I talk a lot off these forums).
The STB I had to box the flexing tower brackets from the 3pt firewall arms stressing them.
The underneath tunnel brace (like a spreader bar) went between the motor and trans gap and kept pressure on the chassis just behind the rear ears where the A-arms mount to the chassis.
The upper steering brace you can not fit onto a V8 car. needs to be a shorter V6 motor to do it. Made a noticible difference where the wonderbar didn't make any steering feeling change. All a wonderbar does is brace a chassis from cracking. If the wonderbar improves the feel of the car then the chassis near the steering box was already damaged. The upper lateral brace I welded into the car just behind the steering box I put preload tension into it to take out any inward flex of the box/pitman arm during cornering loads. The tension eliminated some steering shaft transmission into the steering wheel. In other words, instead of the tires trying to drive the steering wheel, the steering wheel had better overall input over the tires.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Pretty much my same plan I was going to fabricate some fiberglass buckets with high low beam LED's
Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod
You are a man of many means and a damn good fabricator. You would have eventually gotten to all that without my further help. You are doing great and are a very organized and intelligent person my friend. Proud of your progress.
Different type car but same priciple. here's the last time I had my Vette and Truck together in 2009. Pic is a little distorted but if you look close at my Vette I replace the pop up headlights into a fixed position and gutted all the underneath mechanics and vaccum system that operated them. I then covered them in the fixed position with aerodynamic lexan LeMans-type head light covers.
Again, taking weight off the nose of a car in front of the wheels.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Complete change of topic here, but what do you think of the Factory 5 '33 Roadster? I'm hankering for another project and always had my eye on a kit car like that because it is something I can "build" without special skills and equipment (just kind of bolts together). Just curious if you have seen any of those on at autocross or road course?
Ridetech built one a few years ago if you want to see what an extreme example of it can do. There's an article in HotRod about it somewhere on the internet.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
So as far as bracing goes.. the plan I am currently working on is a better stb than the hotchkis one I'm running... it will be welded to the strut towers with a removable section over the engine , also will triangulate from the strut towers to the fire wall as well as to the frame rails right behind the radiator and the tie the frame together behind the radiator were the points intersect. I'll make it out of thin wall tubing to save weight and ditch the aluminum hotchkis part... then add in two 1 3/4 tubes into the floor that tie from the front subframe to the main loop of the roll bar, then tie a tube from each side of the subframe together right behind my tubular control arms. Maybe even attach two tubes there? Tying each point of the control arms together? And triangulate that as well
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
So I was thinking of making this brace directly between the rear control arm mounts. I am undecided whether to make it removable or just weld directly to the control arm mount ear and heaving the control arm bolt travel thru the brace mounts. I would draw it on here but not sure how to do that
Kinda like this but directly at the control arm mount point
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
So then I'll go from the stb to the fire wall the from the stb to the front frame rails by the steering box right by the radiator then connect the two which will coronet the frame rails
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Sorry guys, I've been real busy lately. I just dug around my computer to find some photos of the old car. Here are a few pics of the braces. Note that some of these pics were from early on in the build. Several things changed are not showing like the braced chassis side panhard mount.
Lower firewall spreader bar to support rearward a-arm ears. transverses between oil pan and bell housing. Also note carbon fiber driveshaft.
Older pic of exhaust prior to that being lightened. Lightweight Wilwood rear disc. Not the clocking on the sway bar axle mounts. The wheel base is shortened 1 1/2"
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Here is the lighter and shorter exhaust routing. Taking off about 60 lbs off the rear of the car. 34.5" long Stainless Works custom I-pipe bullet muffler to center most of muffler weight between wheelbase.
Dynamat lining floor board and rear firewall for better chassis weight distribution
Momo race recliners mounted extremely low to the floor board with custom welded brackets
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 04-06-2017 at 10:57 PM.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Top steering box chassis brace. I V8 car can not run this due to motor size and clearance issues.
Custom made front brake brackets
The massive and extremely light weight 6piston 13" front brakes
Dreambird's (Mike's) beautiful stock customised A-arms. Mine weere simular without the drilling. He did a great job on these- something I guided him to but never finished on my own car. My welding brackets were done the same way though.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Im hiding all the top secret rubber bands and chewing gum....LOL
This is the only thing on that car for the most part I did not finish. The 3.5l 60* V6 with remote waterpump, custom one of a kind stainless steel and ceramicoated headers, and my custom home made 4.1 quart plenum. This car would have been so deadly had this been finished. Was looking for about 260hp out of it instead of the 140 it had. I built this car solely for running around on city streets daily driving. Other people buy their (now ex) wives a mini van, this car was NOT my race car, this car was her grocery getter and was built entirely for that purpose. Do not ever think this was my good car- but this car responded to my tweaks and handled like no tomorrow so I got a little addicted to trying new things with it.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Got my creative gears turning, now I really can't wait to get to work on mine again! I really want those front brakes! Always improving, never stop learning, keep moving forward!
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by TTOP350
Dean, I noticed the swaybar endlinks were shorter than factory also, that have something to do with lowering it?
yes, I cut them down to keep the sway bar in articulation level. if you look at some of the other pictures you will see that my sway bar mount on the axle are also rotated backwards which brings them upward as well in the circular radius. As I stated before, I moved the rear axle forward about 1.5" so the bar is further back then the axle. This improved weight bias and also shortened the wheelbase so the car rotated easier into turns. The 3rd advantage is it exaggerated the roll understeer by shortening the lca length when the outside corner lca inverted as the chassis leaned.
Also note the reshaped and much shorter bump stop. I later took them off and used Koni shaft style progressive bump stops.
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 04-07-2017 at 04:02 PM.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod
yes, I cut them down to keep the sway bar in articulation level. if you look at some of the other pictures you will see that my sway bar mount on the axle are also rotated backwards which brings them upward as well in the circular radius. As I stated before, I moved the rear axle forward about 1.5" so the bar is further back then the axle. This improved weight bias and also shortened the wheelbase so the car rotated easier into turns. The 3rd advantage is it exaggerated the roll understeer by shortening the lca length when the outside corner lca inverted as the chassis leaned.
Also note the reshaped and much shorter bump stop. I later took them off and used Koni shaft style progressive bump stops.
I did this as well. But my endlinks are only about 1/2 inch tall lol and the mounts are also rotated back . Making the bar level with the mounting points
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by morrow
I did this as well. But my endlinks are only about 1/2 inch tall lol and the mounts are also rotated back . Making the bar level with the mounting points
Did you shorten your driveshaft? Wjen i ordered the carbon fiber shaft I had it made 1" shorter, otherwise if it were stock lwngth it would have stuffed the yoke all the way into the tailshaft and break things
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
The car is lower than it looks. I'm using a bushing sandwiched between the body and the sway bar. Annnd the bar is level .. the panhard bar is level as well
And it's only about $40k fully optioned with brakes and the completed IRS. Love the concept. Hate the price tag. But very interested in seeing someone put one together and show us what it can do.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
And it's only about $40k fully optioned with brakes and the completed IRS. Love the concept. Hate the price tag. But very interested in seeing someone put one together and show us what it can do.
I dont like the concept very much as you cut out the whole bottom of the car and stitch weld it to the new frame then fabricate a new floor. Though, you would be able to finally lighten the doors without turning the car into a pretzel
There are some nice parts ideas there but a whole frame? No thanks. Speedtech says they will be developing suspension bits and.. spindles(!!) for the third gen that arent fabricated spindles.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by RaverRacerX
I dont like the concept very much as you cut out the whole bottom of the car and stitch weld it to the new frame then fabricate a new floor. Though, you would be able to finally lighten the doors without turning the car into a pretzel
There are some nice parts ideas there but a whole frame? No thanks. Speedtech says they will be developing suspension bits and.. spindles(!!) for the third gen that arent fabricated spindles.
I talked to Speedtech at an event about a year ago. From what they were saying at that time, the idea was to cut out the strut tower sheet metal to make room for their bolt in front suspension. Not sure I want to sign up to be the first person to try it on a car, but I'm waiting to see the prototype on their car at an event and to see more information on the actual design vs the conceptual design.
Both of these shops build high quality components so I don't doubt it will be well engineered and well built. Price will determine how many people actually buy one though. For the price of the RS chassis, I could have paid for all 4 of my current thirdgens twice. Or I could have purchased 3 of the one I picked up new in 1992. And that's a big chunk of money. For the same or less, I can buy a lightly used C6 or C7 Corvette which might be a superior design even with all the add-ons available on the RS chassis.
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
I talked to Speedtech at an event about a year ago. From what they were saying at that time, the idea was to cut out the strut tower sheet metal to make room for their bolt in front suspension. Not sure I want to sign up to be the first person to try it on a car, but I'm waiting to see the prototype on their car at an event and to see more information on the actual design vs the conceptual design.
Both of these shops build high quality components so I don't doubt it will be well engineered and well built. Price will determine how many people actually buy one though. For the price of the RS chassis, I could have paid for all 4 of my current thirdgens twice. Or I could have purchased 3 of the one I picked up new in 1992. And that's a big chunk of money. For the same or less, I can buy a lightly used C6 or C7 Corvette which might be a superior design even with all the add-ons available on the RS chassis.
if its like what has been done for some foxbody kits, it wouldnt be hateful but I, personally, would like a spindle option. Though, a corvette shock would make MRC much easier...
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
To the original question......c4 suspension would likely be the most feasable setup. I saw that that had already been suggested. One thing cool about it is the whole setup drops out of the car plus there is a @#$% ton of aftermarket suspension parts for it
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
FYI, my current plans are to do something similar to what morrow did, and use A arms and coil overs to push it out to where I want it, then tune it from there, this way I can go back to stock configuration if I don't like the results.
It bothers me when places post pages like that and clearly don't care enough to actually post accurate information, just generic information from similar products... Unless 3rd gens just grew separate body mounts and bolt in core supports...
I'm also not sure I get it. Is someone that's going to spend $40K on a chassis going to want some generic IRS what looks similar to a mustang 2 front suspension and a 3" exhaust?
Honestly, anyone interested enough in spending that kind of money to put a new chassis under a 3rd gen will likely want to build it custom...
Re: Making a spindle that extends the track out 2"
It just dawned on me... the agent 47 car with the wing... the one with the (upgraded suspension) lol my buddy bought that car... it was supposed to be a quick fixer upper to do track days... he had me come take a look at it and it was horrific... I ended up stripping the entire car down to a shell and re built the entire car, including the cage and aero.. even did a coyote swap
04-06-2017, 12:52 AM
(Yes Mike and I talk a lot off these forums).
