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I have Spohn's adjustable a-arms. I have maybe 7k miles on them, and the ball joints are shot .
So I've decided to go with QA1 part # 1210-209P. They are .5" extended.
Since I have to tear into things, I thought that this time I would try to take advantage of the adjustablility of the arms. Has anyone done this? Any measurements to share?
The idea is to extend the rear ear of the a-arm, and to shorten (if possible) the front ear. This would move the ball joint forward, which will give me some more positive caster. Nothing too drastic or the spring could contact the spring can (k-member). I do have swivel cup weight jacks which will help some.
From my attached pic of the pass side arm, it doesn't look like there is a whole lot to shorten. The circled ear is the rear ear which will be lengthened.
Just wondering if anyone has done this, and what to expect.
adjustable is adjustable the principles still all apply wether prebought or one off
Yes, tylercamaro, that is self-evident.
My inquiry is specific (even put it in bold font), not principled. You answered a question that I did not ask. No worries, I've done that in the past, myself.
I thought it prudent to try and learn from others who have attempted this before I begin - specifically with Spohn adj a-arms.
If no one has specifics to share, then I'm on my own. Ball joints arrived yesterday.
I'm trying to remember if my tires rub more on the front or back of the inner fender, I know that on one of my thirdgens I actually wore through it and was surprised to find that there was some solid steel _right_ behind it.
I have Spohn's adjustable a-arms. I have maybe 7k miles on them, and the ball joints are shot .
So I've decided to go with QA1 part # 1210-209P. They are .5" extended.
Since I have to tear into things, I thought that this time I would try to take advantage of the adjustablility of the arms. Has anyone done this? Any measurements to share?
The idea is to extend the rear ear of the a-arm, and to shorten (if possible) the front ear. This would move the ball joint forward, which will give me some more positive caster. Nothing too drastic or the spring could contact the spring can (k-member). I do have swivel cup weight jacks which will help some.
From my attached pic of the pass side arm, it doesn't look like there is a whole lot to shorten. The circled ear is the rear ear which will be lengthened.
Just wondering if anyone has done this, and what to expect.
Thanks,
Brian
Sorry to hear that! I also have those A-arms but have yet to get the car running.
Remember reading a while back that SPOHN ball-joints were not the best.
Maybe I'll go ahead and preemptively change them. Will probably look into HOWE though.
As for the adjustment, 87350IROC is the only one I know of who may have done that. Had to do with fitting 19's on the front.
Wish he had finished the project and posted his results. Great looking wheel/tire combination. IMHO.
Last edited by rurnt88; 06-24-2017 at 03:20 AM.
Reason: Information
I just had the QA1 ext Ball Joints pressed in. They actually look small in the a-arms, but they are snug.
BJ's have no pre-load set, so you need the two tools shown in the pic. The nut unlocks the locking plate, and the hollow point allen-like hex wrench is used to set the pre-load. I set them just a little snug as some wear will occur with break-in, then turned the locking plate and it was too tight. Trial and error til it was just right.
Then extending rear ear: I left the locking nut in place for reference, and backed-out the shank all the way to see how much was there. Re-inserted and I lengthened/extended the back ear by 9/16". This will push the ball joint forward and give me a little more caster. The spring pocket will not move as much as the ball joint as the pocket is way inside the arc (ball joint is the furthest part of arc).
Tried to re-use the ball joint boots, but they are too small. I'll try the auto parts store and see what I can come up with tomorrow.
No. Adjustable is adjustable. But to answer your specific question.. yes you can do that, but here's the thing. By moving one joint in and one out , you are changing the width between the center of each joint which means it will load up and bind... can you do it? Yes... but you may need to modify the width of the spacers placed on each end of the Johnny joint
I don't think my adjustments were large enough to cause any concern with spacers. Absolutely no concern with spring can.
For the boots, I just snipped the bottom edge and they snapped right on. Will work for now.
Last week, Sato spun-out in the kink in front of me and lived to race again (you so lucky). Tony Kanaan, not so lucky.
["I don't think my adjustments were large enough to cause any concern with spacers. Absolutely no concern with spring can.
For the boots, I just snipped the bottom edge and they snapped right on. Will work for now."]
Curious to hear your assessment of this change.
Did this move the tire outward at all in the fender opening? Next thought is, if it did, what happens if you decrease the other side by a like amount.
Sway-bar mount?
Tie-rod considerations if any?
And, thanks for doing this. Those of us who own these A-arms bought them for the adjustability. Following the old racer adage to "make everything as adjustable as you can." However, you may be the first to actually verify if the adjustable A-arms work and are worth the coin.
Last edited by rurnt88; 07-04-2017 at 07:23 AM.
Reason: wording
There is no perceptible outward movement, though the purpose is to gain caster and the wheel is further forward in the wheel well.
No problems with tie rods.
You must realize that I have 2" drop spindles and .5" ext ball joints. There might be a person or two that has matched this front RC improvement, but I have not heard of anyone besting this improvement - one never knows.
Ride height is 26.75" front and 27.25" rear, so I am not excessively lowered.
With the wheel sitting further forward it now appears to be in the factory location. Which may be a bonus to added caster? Very nice!
I have the problem with the SPOHN A-arms moving the wheel rear-ward. Here is a picture of my project with the same 2-inch drop spindles and SPOHN, adj, arms.
Picture is not the best quality and there is no engine in place. This is with 9 1/2" springs & spring cup swiveler's. Height is about 26 - 26 1/2" (it's been awhile). The wheel does sit a bit (~5/16") rear-ward. I may try what you are doing if for no other reason than to center the wheel. If I can get added Caster adjustment, all the better.
Can you talk about how the 1/2" taller ball-joints improve RC with a 2" drop spindle?
Last edited by rurnt88; 07-04-2017 at 05:27 PM.
Reason: phrasing
Can you talk about how the 1/2" taller ball-joints improve RC with a 2" drop spindle?
Not much to say. It adds another .5" in raising the front RC. These QA1 units are re-buildable and you can re-set pre-load while on the car, so why not. I don't think it's possible to raise the front RC too much FOR OUR CARS AS BUILT.
Production cars tend to have exaggerated roll axis inclination - front RC at pavement level and rear RC up at say 12". That incline front to back needs to be flattened out. There are practical considerations and ride quality considerations to take into account in doing this.
When raising the front RC, you get practically 1:1 effect. You raise one inch, you get RC raised one inch. The rear is NOT 1:1.
When we lower our cars, the CG is lowered - good thing. But, this roll axis inclination becomes more exaggerated than at stock ride height. It needs to be corrected or you could have a worse handling car than before lowering. When the CG and roll axis are closer together (very good thing), you have less force being transferred (force remains distributed better on all four tires). This is keeping a smaller moment arm - the smaller the arm, the less force transferred as it acts like a lever upon the roll axis.
With better balance on all four and less force transfer, we can use less harsh springs, and dampers, and maybe sway bars. Plus, ride quality will be better as less rebound is being used (along with unsprung weight improvements). You still do want force transfer onto the tire(s) that need it the most during maneuvers, though. We are not trying to eliminate, but to control it and use it to advantage.
Dean should be in Asia Minor by now, if all went as planned. Berk has a similar set-up as mine, but has a big block - different beast. It would be interesting to hear how they sort that out.
passenger side lower a arm pivot bolt, picture from inside the engine bay close to firewall
Hello to all... my name is Mike . I have a 1985 Camaro Iroc Z and i wanted to change the motor mounts before i reinstall the engine. i had success on the drivers side but the passenger side is kicking my butt. I have watched a couple videos online on how to do this and it looks like i will have to lower the lower A Arm on the passenger side to access the bolts to the motor mounts because the sit behind the A Arm. i have both nuts off of the pivot bolts and the bolt that is close to the front end is defintely loose but the other bolt close to the firewall is the one that is kicking my rear end, i can stand inside engine bay and see the bolt better, it rotates with my wratchet set but will not come out!!! I have tried everything, i checked the coil spring and it is compressed. i also tried placing a jack under the a arm to relieve any pressure on the bolt, bolt is just siezed i guess, i even tried spraying some pb blaster on it but nothing is working. i have asked around and some folks keep telling me to put heat on it and it will come out, my question is....... is there another way to remove the passenger side motor mount without having to lower the A Arm??? any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated as i have been waitng since the year 2000 to drive this car, been through a lot and had to put this car on hold for a long time. thank you and have a great day.
Mike85nc;
Bit of a thread jack, and 2 posts since 2010?
In an effort to help you:
Yes, heat will work. You may need some ratchet knuckles to get inside the k-member to get on to the nuts. You do not necessarily need to get the a-arms out.
Here are some cut-out views. I re-boxed my k-member to make the LS A/C compressor to fit.
Persistence will pay off!
Thank you for your help, and yes only two post since 2000, it's a long story but I have been through a lot since then. I thought id share my story. i bought the car in late 2000 around the time i was hired with the airlines. then 911 hit and i lost my job twice withing a year, first time 1 month 2 time for 5.5 months during my second layoff my father passes away, then four years later my mother passes away so the car was on and off hold for quite some time. then i met my wife and moved to NC from PA, later had to bring car to NC and its been in the garage since, we have started a family and have two great kids. i always wanted to drive this car and never gave up on it. the engine has been overhauled twice, it now pushes 410hp and 425ftlbs of torque to the rear wheels, not to bad for a low budget project. Im currently out of money for this car since i have priorities rearranged now. one day i do hope to get it where i would like it to be. all of my efforts were poured into the drive train, i have new spohn torque arm, new tremec 6sp tranny, be cool aluminum radiator, aluminum pistons and intake manifold, msd distributor, trixflow heads with cam, double pumper holly carb, etc etc.....
just thought id share some history of my car. thank again for your help and i will try what you said. any other help i can get from anyone will be greatly appreciated.
Great story! The only person who is average is the person you do not know. Once you get to know them, you’ll find out just how unique they are. You’ll find many stories just like yours on this board.
I encourage you to start your own thread. Put yourself out there. State your goals, budget, timeline, and how you intend to use the car (application, application, application). This is a great community and we’ll help you reach your goals – and save you time and money.
I like to say that the car is just a vehicle (profound pun). Work on yourself so you can handle the twists and turns of life, know when to accelerate and decelerate, navigate hills and road hazards, drive in the storms, avoid crashes, and deal with frustration (busted parts, stuck bolts, things that don't fit, etc). Then, let the car be an expression of who you are. Not only will you wind up with an exciting car; you’ll be a better person, and the people around you will be proud of you and your car. Let your family be part of the project that is yourself; and let them be part of the project that is your car. It takes time and very few have the dough to do it all at once. Stay the course and enjoy the course. Seek help along the way.
Good Luck!
06-06-2017, 09:59 PM
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There might be a person or two that has matched this front RC improvement, but I have not heard of anyone besting this improvement - one never knows.
