I finally went to the track tonight. 1st and third runs bogged down in first due to running rich. Spun through first gear on the 2nd run. It's pretty easy to tell where my problem was.


---------1st-----------2nd------------3rd
r/t****.646*******1.072*******.923
60'****2.493******2.638****** 2.391
1/8***10.209******10.320*****10.178
mph***72.26******72.26*******71.70
1/4***15.749******15.856******15.745
mph***91.44*******91.33 ******90.86

That was on worn street tires (15''x7'' rims), black plugs, and 91 octane. I also forgot to remove the filthy paper air filter. Obviously I need to work on my 60' times. I'm confident that I can bring them down considerably if I can ever get the air/fuel ratio right at lower rpms and use my buddy's rims. I'm pretty happy with my trap speed, but the time definetly leaves something to be desired. I'm going to try again wednesday night, but this time with my buddy's 17"x9"s in the rear, no air filter(possibly ram air mod if I get it done in time, NOS off-road octane boost, and new plugs.

It was also my first time racing at a track. It was at KCIR, MO and about 70-75 degrees.

 

yea definitly try to cut ure 60 foot times to around a 2.1 and ull see 15.4s all day. Good luck

 

you arent just rich on the low end you are rich all around
the injectors on that holley TBI unit are MASSIVE. You have a high 14 second car if you take your stock injector pod and injectors and mount it on the holley.
youll need to drill and tap the holley for the aircleaner stud (no biggie) and youll have a small gap around the edges of the pod where some unfiltered air can get in unless you make a spacer. You will need an injector pod spacer of some sort btw be it one you make or just a couple gaskets stacked because the pod wont really fit right otherwise.

(i have done all of the above so i know this all as fact.)

 

btw what manifold is that unit bolted to?

 

to find the traction you are looking for you may wanna stick to the 15inch wheels and adjust your launch technique a bit. all you are looking to do is get a little chirp out of the tires adn the engien come down a bit and then start pulling really hard. it is a fine lien to get a stick car off the line sinc eyou can't preload the suspension with otu palying a bunch of games with line locks and stuff.
the reason i say stay with teh 15inch wheels is because you want the tire to be able to flex to grip the ground. it is not a lot of flex when you are talking about street radials, but still the difference in sidewall between a 15inch tire and 17inch tire that are both about 26inches tall is a lot. play soem game swith air pressure a bit. run the fronts up to 45-50pis at the track adn never put the rears below 26psi. the reason for keeping so much pressure in the rear si top prevent the belt from cupping up and having only teh outside edges touching the ground.
pablo is right about the fuel. try lowering your fuel pressure and try to add a little timing. without a chip the best you are gonna do is have the engien loading up at idle, but you shoudl be able to get it adjusted so that once you go to WOT it will clear itself out a bit.

good work, keep it up!

later
tim

 

Thank you for the replies. It's still the stock intake manifold on there, so the 2" bores on the TBI aren't doing me a lot of good. My friend has a pair of M.T. e/t streets on his stock 16''x8"s, which I will probably use instead of the 17"x9"s.
I am running rich all the way around,as Pablo stated. I should have winALDL data to send Brian within the next couple of days, though I won't have the chip in time for wednesday. I'm hoping that will prevent me from having to put the stock injector pod on there. I don't want to lose the afpr. I am hoping for high 14's after chip tuning, which will be a pretty good acomplishment with stock heads, cam, and intake. Then hopefully over the winter, the cam and intake will go in.

 

If you want I can add your time to the TBI registry, see link in sig.

 

yeah, that would be cool. I don't know the elevation though. Hopefully, I can knock a few tenths off wednesday night. I'm looking for 15.3s before chip tuning.

 

Oh My....

With the massive ledge under the tbi unit where the big bore of the throttle body meets the small bore of the manifold and the obscene amount of turbulence that must cause you probably should have just shopped around for a throttle body from a v6 car because thats what youve essentially done

either get a new carb manifold with a proper adapting plate along with swapping out the injector pod on that throttle body to the stock one (which not only has closer flow specs to what you need, its also downright better in terms of fuel atomization)

OR
just put the stock throttle body back on there.

Either way, I GUARANTEE IT WILL BE MUCH FASTER.

 

I agree with Pablo. That ridge at the bottom of the TBI can't be doing any good.

 

The 670 TBI does nothing for you if you're still using the stock intake... in fact due to the increased flow of the 670 injectors, that's why you're running rich with black plugs.

What you should do is ensure the 2 inch bores has a good transition from the 2 inch to the inside of the manifold to at the least make a smooth path for the air. Or as pablo stated.. run the old TBI or get a new intake.

You should be pushing at least 93 mph with that setup and better times than that for the components added.

 

Well..... I know I need a new intake, and the fact that I smell the gasoline on my cloths after driving for 5 minutes was a good sign I am running rich.
Here's the thing. The reason I switched TBIs in the first place was because my stock injectors went bad. Instead of paying $160 for two new ones, I figured I'd invest $260 in the 670. I am going to try chip tuning first to compensate for the large injectors. If that does not work, I will probably buy Delphi 45pph injectors and stick them in replace of the 57pph injectors.

As far as intakes go, which one? I have done searches, read the topic of the week, so forth and so on. Pretty much, I have concluded that I do not want the Edelbrock TBI. I have looked into single planes, but there are not enough people running them. There has been enough theory in it, but the only person on this board I knew running one was Tas. He ran the 7525, and basically said it wasn't any good. I'm not going to lie, I need help with picking an intake. It needs to clear the stock hood, and preferably have egr. Any help would be appreciated. I also have an LT1 cam waiting to go in. I'm also thinking about running 1.6 roller rockers with it, but heard that combo could mess things up. I'll be using the LT1 springs.

 

I just put in 1.6 rockers, not rollers mind you but nothing wrong with putting those with an LT1 cam, as long as the valve train geometry stays the same and the lift doesn't exceed the capability of the springs (no coil bind) then it should be fine. Heck you can even reuse your hydraulic lifters with no issue.

 

Sweet, it sounds good. Though one of my lifters is ticking pretty bad, so I'll have to replace those anyways

 

when did tas run the 7525? first off i dont think he ever did the dude had like 0 mods yet posted alot, then one day he gets headers and like a week later he gets rid of the car.

I run an edelbrock torker II single plane
305 ci
214/224 cam, bout half inch lift
ported H.o. heads
some other knick nacks
thecar hauls ***

I would recomend the 7525 over the torker II

 

btw I know you are running rich, that is merely ANOTHER problem with your setup in addition to the mismatched TB/ manifold

so you have two major things working against you

in the mean time please dont race anyone and save some thirdgen face

 

Pablo, I gotta ask.........

Have you been to The Stage yet?

 

how much is the 7525... and i have seen the torkers in the summit for 96.00 but i don't think they have egr provisions... they have an edlebrock stock replacement with egr for216.00

 

http://www.summitracing.com/

Part no wnd-7525

I believe this is the intake. I still haven't heard which EGR to use. I think it will take a pretty stout cam to go with that intake. At least LT1.

 

just looked it up and it said 183.00 also it is aluminum can you use this with the stock iron heads??

 

you have to modify the center intake bolt holes due to a different angle on the 87+ heads but it isn't that big of deal.

 

so what is a good intake to use for a mild performance cam? i want something relitivly cheap. there are quite a few intakes in the summit catalog but i don't know which will be best!!!

 

Pablo-Dude calm down a little. I know you're the all knowing TBI G*d. Truely, I respect your opinions and things you are doing for the TBI community. I think it is great. However, I ask for help in choosing an intake manifold, but instead of a response, I get a smart *** comment. What should I expect from a bullet sponge though?
Oh, and btw, I know you have a million posts or whatever, so I assume you've been on the TBI board for quite while now. Obviously, you have a bad memory. So how do I explain it to you........SEARCH!!........that is how I found the posts on Tas doing the intake swap. SEARCH!! if you can't remember for sure! Did he really do it or not? I don't know, but his posts say he did.

I think the thing that pisses me of most about your comment is this: For so long, TBI guys have complained that TBI is underated in the world of performance and racing, and that people need to experiment and try different things. Well, I'm trying-it's my first sports car and Chevy. I'm Active duty and take classes full time, so time and money are a factor in my mods. Sorry if i didn't mod MY....let me say it again...MY car in the way YOU wanted.
By the way, my car moves pretty damn good for the mods I've done and the 155k engine in it.

 

I'm going to be breaking 200000 miles sometime early next year and I run 15.4 and 91 mph, I have yet to change the stock cam, heads, headers, intake and TBI... there's a good amount of potential in the engine untapped...

Go and try out different things with your car, no engine is the same is what I say. What's the harm in him running as is, so what if he runs slow or fast?

Geez give the kid a break...

 

If you want something cheap, get a used Edelbrock off of thirdgen classified or ebay. Otherwise performance and cheap rarely go together. The 7525 has a lot of potential but no one is brave enough to try it and set it up correctly. My engine has 129k miles on it and I am not investing money in it. I have a 350 in the garage that hopefully this winter I will get tore down and rebuilt but until then I have to run what I got. If I want to go fast, I drive the 99TA.

 

i would try it but i would need help retaping the holes for the center bolts... is that the only mods to do to it (7525) also i will need an adapter as well right?
also would i need aluminum heads or can i run the al intake with iron heads?

 

The hard part is finding a good performance intake that will fit under the stock hood. I don't know if the 7525 will or not. I doubt it if you use the 1/2"+ aluminum tbi to carb adapter. You would probably have to use a 3/16" custom made steel adapter. But there are several carb intake users here to help with fitting under the hood. Providing that any of them are still using the stock hood. I will try and research it some.

To use the older pattern aluminum intakes on the late model cast iron heads you need to put a 1/2 drill bit in the center holes of the intake and elongnate the hole so that the bolt can go through it at a steeper angle.

The outer bolts go in at an angle that matches the angle of the head but the center bolts go closer to straight down into the head. You will see what I mean if you take a close look at the intake. On the older intakes the bolts all went in at pretty much the same angle. So your just changing the angle of the bolt holes in the center of the new intake.

I hope all this crap makes since. I am not a very eloquent. I have just messed with every car I have owned over the last 20 years. Yes 20. I am an old dog. Still learning tricks on this site though.

 

they need to make a special smiley for you with long grey hair and a long grey beard and glasses and a little cain with a hearing aid... ......just kidding i am glad to have someone so knowledgable to talk to about this stuff. so you think i should go with an edlebrock intake which do you think would be the best for 1000rpm (or so) to about 5500 rpmi am mainly trying to increase the power band from the measily 3500 as soon as i hit 35 the car seems to act like it hits a wall!! but it pulls like crazy tryin to get there...... i am still using the stock hood but in a few months i would like to get the ls1 fake hood for the car and cut out the little hole and make a vent there with a water catch ( since i have the xtreme lid) plus i will proboblobobly do away with those gas shocks for the hood and put in an idiot stick 1 little stick is much lighter than 2 big heavy shocks... i might save a couple of pounds...

 

Bwhahahahah how did you know about that?

hey hey hey now no need for that im perfectly calm. I'm just intense there is a difference. I meant no harm by my post, I still love you man! Even if you did go to the wrong recruiter
everybody knows my posts are sometimes a little crazy sounding, long time posters know to ignore my silly antics.
and no i am not some all knower of anything contrary to popular belief so dont go around saying that nonsense. Otherwise people go running with whatever dumb stuff i say like its always 100% right. We know thats been proven wrong numerous times now