Ok, Somethin is going on here.....bad 1/4 mile times now
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Supreme Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 1
From: Davison / Troy ,Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.8
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana 60
Ok, Somethin is going on here.....bad 1/4 mile times now
Been meaning to post this for awhile but never got around to it for some reason. I am stumped by whats goin on. Anyways background on my car real quick.
-116,000 miles on it.
-Ran a 15.1 @ 90mph beginning of this year with a 60ft of 2.1x
-List of my mods are at my site
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
Now I took it to the track again at the middle of the year and could only pull a 15.5 @ 88mph, same 60ft roughly 2.2-2.1x and then at the end of the year I could only pull 15.8-15.9's!!! WTF? My mph is back at around 87mph. What the hell is going on with my car here. I did the tune up, Fuel filter, new MSD Blaster coil, MSD Dist. Cap/Rotor,MSD 8.5mm Superconductors and brand new AC Delco plugs and did the fuel injector cleaning thing. Car just keeps getting worse as time goes on.
Now this winter I am dropping in the LT1 cam, new springs, valve seals (I know there bad), Edelbrock TBI intake and timing chain. You guys think my car is just getting old and when I change this stuff out it will awakin it again? I don't know what would be causing this loss of power though. Any thoughts or personal experinces?
-116,000 miles on it.
-Ran a 15.1 @ 90mph beginning of this year with a 60ft of 2.1x
-List of my mods are at my site
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
Now I took it to the track again at the middle of the year and could only pull a 15.5 @ 88mph, same 60ft roughly 2.2-2.1x and then at the end of the year I could only pull 15.8-15.9's!!! WTF? My mph is back at around 87mph. What the hell is going on with my car here. I did the tune up, Fuel filter, new MSD Blaster coil, MSD Dist. Cap/Rotor,MSD 8.5mm Superconductors and brand new AC Delco plugs and did the fuel injector cleaning thing. Car just keeps getting worse as time goes on.
Now this winter I am dropping in the LT1 cam, new springs, valve seals (I know there bad), Edelbrock TBI intake and timing chain. You guys think my car is just getting old and when I change this stuff out it will awakin it again? I don't know what would be causing this loss of power though. Any thoughts or personal experinces?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 868
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From: Randleman,NC,USA
Car: 91 Camaro RS Convertible
Engine: 385ci LT1 cnc ported heads big cam
Transmission: 4L60E automatic
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Zexel posi 7.5" rear
Your mods are very similar to the ones on my convertible and I can pull consistent 15.2. Have you checked your fuel pressure to make sure the pump is not dying off? What psi do you run on those injectors. I run stock pressure but on 350 injectors instead of 305. The 305's just didn't seem to up to the task. Also, have you take a good look at the plug wires. Mine kept burning up the wire on the number 8 plug all the time. The wire got pretty toasted before I noticed a miss. Then lastly do you have a WINALDL setup and looked at the data to see if there were any weird values there.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 1
From: Davison / Troy ,Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.8
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana 60
My fuel pressure is set at 12psi but I don't have a guage or haven't made a setup to where I could montior my fuel pressure at WOT. I do have the Winaldl program but I haven't made the cable yet so I haven't done that. I checked my wires but I will check them again next time I am home from school. Maybe there is a toasted one I haven't noticed in the back.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 1
From: Davison / Troy ,Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.8
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana 60
LoL, oh i see how it is. You all can awnser "Will my tbi spacer clear" or "Should I do this?" but u can't anwser my thread?
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: New Boston, MI
Car: 92 RS
Engine: 406 SBC
Transmission: 4R70W
Axle/Gears: Moser/Strange 9" 3.73, spool
Hey Eric
Your car runs like mine did. I ran a best of 14.2 once on my 305 (334 really, but it was still a sloth). From there my times got worse and worse. I never figured out why either, I tried a tune up first, then replaced the O2 sensor, messed around with the timing, then flattened a cam lobe at M6. My last time was 15.4, so I don't regret ripping that engne out. I think that my times got worse because the cam was wearing down, I'm assuming a lifter roller siezed up or something and did the damage.
But your problem might be a stretching timing chain. You said you're gonna put a LT1 cam in, I did and it was worth it, just get a new timing chain too, like you said. Get some 350 injectors too, I though I could just raise my fuel pressure up and it would run fine but I threw a set of 305 injectors in and it ran much better. The intake will help too, and I still have it sittin here for ya.
When I put the LT1 cam in my engine I found it ran best with 34 degrees of timing, and I had it all in by 3000 RPM's. If I can find my old PROM you can have it, it was setup perfectly for that engine.
Let me know if ya need any help
Joe
Your car runs like mine did. I ran a best of 14.2 once on my 305 (334 really, but it was still a sloth). From there my times got worse and worse. I never figured out why either, I tried a tune up first, then replaced the O2 sensor, messed around with the timing, then flattened a cam lobe at M6. My last time was 15.4, so I don't regret ripping that engne out. I think that my times got worse because the cam was wearing down, I'm assuming a lifter roller siezed up or something and did the damage.
But your problem might be a stretching timing chain. You said you're gonna put a LT1 cam in, I did and it was worth it, just get a new timing chain too, like you said. Get some 350 injectors too, I though I could just raise my fuel pressure up and it would run fine but I threw a set of 305 injectors in and it ran much better. The intake will help too, and I still have it sittin here for ya.
When I put the LT1 cam in my engine I found it ran best with 34 degrees of timing, and I had it all in by 3000 RPM's. If I can find my old PROM you can have it, it was setup perfectly for that engine.
Let me know if ya need any help
Joe
Thread Starter
Supreme Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 1
From: Davison / Troy ,Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.8
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana 60
Joe, da man. 
Hey, u going to MM's New Years party or whatever?
Yeah, I am guessing my timing chain might be stretched too. Ya see, like a year ago my car was running ****ty one day and I checked my timing and it was -2 degrees and I hadn't touched it at all so I had no idea how it got like that. I advanced it back to 6 degrees so who knows, that might be my problem.
Thanks for holding onto that intake for me, ya still got those valve covers too? I will have money for ya after christmas, unless u want to give me one of them for an xmas gift.

Hey, u going to MM's New Years party or whatever?
Yeah, I am guessing my timing chain might be stretched too. Ya see, like a year ago my car was running ****ty one day and I checked my timing and it was -2 degrees and I hadn't touched it at all so I had no idea how it got like that. I advanced it back to 6 degrees so who knows, that might be my problem.
Thanks for holding onto that intake for me, ya still got those valve covers too? I will have money for ya after christmas, unless u want to give me one of them for an xmas gift.
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: New Boston, MI
Car: 92 RS
Engine: 406 SBC
Transmission: 4R70W
Axle/Gears: Moser/Strange 9" 3.73, spool
Yea I still have the covers and everything. Are you sticking with the TBI for next year?
I dunno if I'm gonna go to the party, I always seem to drink beyond my limit.
I dunno if I'm gonna go to the party, I always seem to drink beyond my limit.
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Thread Starter
Supreme Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,977
Likes: 1
From: Davison / Troy ,Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.8
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana 60
Bull**** Joe. You can handle ur liquor just fine. Rememeber Whirlyball? Or don't u? Hahahahaha.
I don't know what I am gonna do yet as far as injection systems go. I probably just want to get that cam and intake in and go from there. If the thing still sucks ***, carb it is then.
I don't know what I am gonna do yet as far as injection systems go. I probably just want to get that cam and intake in and go from there. If the thing still sucks ***, carb it is then.
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