TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

First time at the track with an '89 Camaro LO3

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Old Sep 18, 2005 | 07:53 PM
  #1  
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
First time at the track with an '89 Camaro LO3

My car has no performance mods other than an open element filter and a little tweak of the timing. I have never run a car down a strip in my life... so bear with my R/T here.

Stock other than open element. Automatic (and I hit 3rd gear around the 1000 ft mark)

RUN # 1: Just stomped on it off the line and spun the tires.
RUN #2: Smoked them a ilittle, only got 1 tire to hook.
RUN #3: Roasted the crap out of the tires, power braked at 2k off the line.


...............RUN #1.............RUN #2.............RUN#3
R/T..........[.372]...............[.127]...............[.068]
60...........[2.487]..............[2.506].............[2.421]
330..........[6.934].............[6.974]..............[6.838]
1/8..........[10.649]............[10.697]............[10.539]
MPH.........[66.18].............[66.15]..............[66.53]
1000........[13.866]............[13.912]............[13.740]
1/4..........[16.635]............[16.656]............[16.469]
MPH.........[79.06].............[81.91]..............[82.45]

Last edited by jimp2001; Sep 18, 2005 at 09:26 PM.
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Old Sep 18, 2005 | 08:12 PM
  #2  
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Car: 1998 Volvo S70
Engine: B5254S Engine
Transmission: Automatic
Axle/Gears: It's a volvo?
ah I heard LO3s stock run about 15 quarter mile....I will not take mine on a test run until I get the engine completely beefed up and shave off some pounds....

Right now everything is stock in my car but within this coming month I'll be getting catback, new cat converter and some other stuff as well.
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Old Sep 18, 2005 | 09:30 PM
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
If I do a posi rear with 3.73s and run slicks, there isn't a doubt in my mind I'll be high 14's with no motor work. I couldn't get the car to hook because of the waterbox that I couldnt avoid. The car's 60 foot time was disgusting... it's a pig off the line, but other than that, I'm happy with it considering its just an LO3.
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Old Sep 18, 2005 | 10:01 PM
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Car: 1998 Volvo S70
Engine: B5254S Engine
Transmission: Automatic
Axle/Gears: It's a volvo?
keep me updated on that, I want to do some gears on my car too.

By the end of the year I should be running 210hp at the wheels on this car. I'll be getting quite a few things to help me chirp my tires at 2nd gear which will be fun to do.
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 12:51 AM
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From: Mesa, AZ
Car: A Camaro
Engine: Weak
Transmission: Weaker
Originally posted by jimp2001
If I do a posi rear with 3.73s and run slicks, there isn't a doubt in my mind I'll be high 14's with no motor work. I couldn't get the car to hook because of the waterbox that I couldnt avoid. The car's 60 foot time was disgusting... it's a pig off the line, but other than that, I'm happy with it considering its just an LO3.
Sorry man, no offense, but it really isn't a matter of gears and slicks. You could probably shave .4 with a better 60' (2.1-2.2). I only grabbed .3 or so going from 3.08's to 3.42's and I was dead hooking with drag radials. Best of luck to you though, glad to hear you're racing it
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 05:10 AM
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From: Chicago, IL
Car: 91 Camaro RS Convertible
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 5-Speed
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Yeah, no way you'll be high 14's with just gears and slicks. I got a manual and with 3.42's and posi with a 2.1-2.2 60' (somewhere in that range) I could only manage a 15.6 best I think.

Get the gears though, and get some headers and full exhaust, you'll see some nice gains.
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 09:54 AM
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
Well, by the time I have gears and slicks I'll have a different motor in the car, so I guess I'll never know.

I have the bottom end assembled now. Between motor work and body work, the car is going through a serious overhaul this winter season. After all, I've only owned my current 3rd gen for about 2 months now.

Click the link in my sig to see the other 3rd gens I've owned.
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 10:27 AM
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
Oh I just realized I said high 14's before... I meant high 15's, lol
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 01:26 PM
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From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Very decent times for a 170 hp engine in a 3,200+ lbs car with tall gears and an auto.

Go for the LT1 cam, complete exhaust from the exhaust ports out, and do a custom tune. That should wake your car up for an L03 anway. Spring for a set of 3.42 or 3.73 gears and maybe a S10 2,000 rpm converter.
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 02:37 PM
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
I have a 350 bored .40 over that's going in over the winter. I just need to get a set of good heads and a radical cam for it. I'm retaining the TBI setup, boring the TB to 50mm, and using larger injectors (naturally). Rebuilding the trans myself, installing an aluminum driveshaft, and I'm looking for a 3rd gen 10 bolt posi rear with disc brakes.
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 02:53 PM
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i have a 350 in mine and i think i barely run 14's with gears and falkens... that 350 you are putting in there should do the trick...
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 07:34 PM
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From: Hilliard, OH
Car: '92 Camaro RS
Engine: LO3
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 open diff
Originally posted by 91ChevyRS
keep me updated on that, I want to do some gears on my car too.

By the end of the year I should be running 210hp at the wheels on this car. I'll be getting quite a few things to help me chirp my tires at 2nd gear which will be fun to do.
The only major mod I've done to my RS (L03, 700R4) is an exhaust. Still has stock gears and everything, and I always get a nice loud chirp when I hit 2nd gear.
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 09:41 PM
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From: Tempe, Arizona
Car: 96 Silverado/99 Suburban
Engine: 700 cubic inches of 'Muican Awesome
Transmission: 4L80/4L60
Axle/Gears: Chunky/Clunky
Keeping in mind apparently I have the "Possesed" L03, I've pulled 2-3 15.7's and one 15.3 with NOTHING but a Flowmaster 40 series muffler. When I put on my open element it actually slowed my car down (but I like the sound, so it stays ) so yeah, these cars can be halfway decently quick. Making sure the actual car is in good shape is even more important than performance mods, just ask my friend with the LB9 I think Shifty has mentioned a few times that doing gears on a stock L03 isn't always a good idea, but I'll let him talk more about that (correct me if I'm wrong, though)

Bruce (90RS305)
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Old Sep 19, 2005 | 11:37 PM
  #14  
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From: Marietta, GA
Car: '91 Firebird Convertible
Engine: 305 TBI (LO3)
Transmission: 700r4, Vette Servo
Axle/Gears: 3.27 9 Bolt, PBR disks
Yeah, I'm waiting for Shifty to respond. I think I can guess one thing he will say:

CHIP WORK!!

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Old Sep 20, 2005 | 03:25 AM
  #15  
jimp2001's Avatar
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
Yeah, I hear that a lot, and with the new motor I'm definately going to have to do some chip work to it.

Does anyone know if the LO3 and LO5 computers are the same? I was thingking of getting a chip out of a stock LO5 truck so I have something to start with after I do the motor swap... unless someone wants to burn me a chip with some better numbers to start off with... I still dont know what heads/cam I'll be using on the motor. I'll post more info when I start ordering.
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Old Sep 20, 2005 | 07:49 AM
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From: Cleveland Ohio
Car: Formula, a big red brick.
Engine: A Ford 351 Windsor... ?
Transmission: Dodge 727
As far as "Computers" go - you have to look at service numbers. The 1227747 found in a truck is almost the same as the one in your car right now, but it doesn't use a MAT sensor, and I don't think there's any advantage in doing a computer swap, just for the sack of using a poorly tuned LO5 factory prom. You would be far better using your stock ecm, and burning your own chip for the requirements of your motor. Others here are much mroe experienced with that topic than I am.
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Old Sep 20, 2005 | 11:41 AM
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From: Edison, NJ
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: WCT5
well the 2 biggest weaknesses on the LO3 is the stock tune and the cam, once you get rid of them then you will see better #s. like you said "large injectors (naturally), FYI Larger injectors isnt always the way to go, but in your case you can step up to 55s no problem, but dont go w/ too much injector. im running a 305 w/ 416 heads, zz4 cam, w/ performer RPM intake w/ stock 305 45# injectors @ 14psi and im running a tad rich. IMO w/ AFPR and tune you can get a lot more than you think out of these injectors.

but since your going with a 350 this winter, you should definitely do the mods that will cahnge over to the new motor for example: full exhaust, the right gears, shift kit, stall convertor, chasis reinforcement that should definitely keep you occupied until the new motor, no sense in dumping money to make your LO3 go fast temporarily when you have plans for a 350.

Last edited by 90FormulaWS6; Sep 20, 2005 at 11:46 AM.
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Old Sep 20, 2005 | 11:43 AM
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From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
As far as the ECm switch to a 299 from a 1992 truck/van/suburban with a 700r4. Programming them is much easier than say a 7747. The advantage of the 8746 and the 7747 is they are more documented. The 299 has a single fuel table all the way up. Better idle control, etc.
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Old Sep 21, 2005 | 10:04 AM
  #19  
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From: Albany, NY Area
Car: Red on Red 89 RS
Engine: LO3 305 TBI
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt / 2.73
As far as computers... I have no idea of what I'm doing... yet.

Heres the plan with the motor swap in detail:

350 bored .40 over
JE Forged Aluminum Flat Top pistons
Eagle ESP H Beam Rods
Cam and Heads... Still looking
Edelbrock Victor Manifold
Carb -> TBI Conversion Plate
Ultimate TBI bored to 50mm (flows 750cfm)
55# Injectors
Be Cool Dual Fan & Radiator Setup
Electric Water Pump
March Serpentine Aluminum Pulley Set
Rebuilding the Transmission myself
Higher Stall Converter
Aluminum Driveshaft
Currie 12-bolt posi rear, disc brakes, 3.73 gears
Kenny Brown Subframe Connectors
Jegs 8 point Roll Cage

As you can see, I'm going to have a lot on my hands this winter. I am also sending the car out to be painted, but I am doing the body work myself. My goal in the end is to have a car that I can drive daily during the summer months, then take it to the track put some slicks on it and at least be in the mid-13's. Hopefully It will be done by next season
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