XxGeinNothingxX

iTrader: (1)

My mechanic at work was telling me about the TB spacer between the TB and the Intake and also a spacer that rises the injectors up further allowing more cfm. I waswondering, has anyone done this and how good does it work. He was telling me you get a couple more horsepower and a little more torque. And jsut overall better spray and air flow.

FreeLoader

fast355 could tell you best about those, though many people have done both.

the injector spacer is fairly ingenius in my opinion, it can be as simple as multiple gaskets stuck together(very cheap) or a $12 rubber part bought from turbo city. it allows for something like 5-10% more cfm(they say 13, but this way you're not disappointed) and gives the air a bit more area to mix with the ionized fuel, this isn't really neccessary at low rpms but at higher rpms where fuel mixing gets a bit rough it can really make a difference. people say between 4-9 hp gains are possible but I don't look at it like that. I would look at it more like a bit higher rpm range with a more consistant pull throughout that range, and a more effective fuel mixture, resulting in a more complete combustion. on it's own it's not exactly amazing, but it's a helping hand for everything you do from then on. not bad for 12 bucks. I think most people will agree with me on this too.

the tbi spacer, on the other hand, is a bit more controversial. there's about a dozen different designs for it, all claiming to be the best. personally I think that cfm tech's would be the best, though fast355 prefers the one he uses, which is a completely open spacer that allows air from both tb barrels to go into either side of the intake manifold. the reason I don't like his is because it creates unnecessary turbulence(which is actually good for the fuel mixture) and can inhibit maximum airflow slightly(which is bad for making upper rpm power). cfm tech basically sets up theirs with a 2 barrel design with a cut in the middle for if one side for some reason needs more air than the other, but doesn't create as much turbulence in the process. as for whether or not they make any power, that's kindof up in the air. I've read about people who've made more power, and I've read about people who haven't. in most cases, a stock motor will not make power from a spacer, whereas a heavily modified motor will make upwards of 5-10 hp from it. the results will be fairly similar to the injector spacer, though not quite as effective(the injectors covering the barrels inhibits airflow more than the size of the tb does). they cost ~$50, and are totally not worth it until your well into modifying your engine, in my opinion. some people will disagree with me on this.

hope I helped.

XxGeinNothingxX

iTrader: (1)

Hey man, you def. helped, thanks for all the input. So, overalll, you would recomend the injecter spacer and you say you would recomend getting it from Turbo City. I was looking at summit and them, 20 bucks for the spacer, and like 80 for the TBI spacer. I will probably get the injecter spacer, and I will do some more research on the other. Thanks alot for taking the time to write that though.

FreeLoader

np man, ya definitely get the injector spacer, but I'd wait it out on the the tbi spacer, there's better ways to spend your money for the extra 5 hp you MIGHT get.

honestly, I don't personally "endorse" any camaro sites except for spohn, but you can get the same injector spacer at cfm-tech or turbo city(honestly I prefer cfm-tech, but only because some of the same stuff is cheaper there), just go for the cheapest one, I haven't really read any bad reviews from either place.

XxGeinNothingxX

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again

JerseyMark

iTrader: (2)

E-Bay... Less than $10!!!

XxGeinNothingxX

iTrader: (1)

Huh, actually didn't think of that; would that be where you purchased urs?

FreeLoader

actually, that's not a bad idea, they sell the same stuff too.

just check the reviews before you buy from any one place.

JerseyMark

iTrader: (2)

Yeah... that is where I got mine. Works fine.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Ebay for $10.00 shipped to my door, then cut the center out of it.

kdrolt

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...?highlight=cfm

FreeLoader

hah, that's interesting.

have you done any research on the fuel mixture variance between the tb's w/ and w/o the injector spacers throughout the rpm range?

or did you notice a difference on initial cfm flow w/ and w/o injectors above it? are there any flow graphs I can look at?

or done it w/ the actual spacers that are sold as opposed to stacked gaskets?

or have you done it w/ the tb spacers at all?

I'm not making an arguement, I'm just wondering if the research is there for me to read(the link in that thread doesn't seem to work).

I have to admit, I am really suprised at what little difference in cfm there is with and without the injectors though, that's pretty crazy.

weren't you the one that posted that thread so long ago on the history of crossfire/tbi/tpi?

XxGeinNothingxX

iTrader: (1)

i looked on ebay, the injecter spacers are like 15 bucks with shipping and the tbi spacers are like 15 minus shipping, I think I will go ahead and get the injector spacer though. Probably wait on the other until I atleast get a larger throttle body.

bowtiedude

I had a TrickFlow on my truck but I was never really happy with the TV function or the angle that the TV cable was pulling at. I took it off and I can't see that I really lost anything. I do however have the injector spacer on it and a I think its called a "powercharger" from Hypertech kind of looks like a big funnel, it really opens the area up around the injectors by replacing the spacer I trimmed the air cleaner base to the dia of the funnel I actually think these 2 pieces made the most difference. I really wasn't crazy about an open element air cleaner and figured I would try this.

kdrolt

*I* didn't do the work. It was done by Ken73 (IIRC, Ken Kelly) who sometimes visits TGO... but mostly lives on the CFI (Crossfire) Vault website. I reposted his info here because it proved via experiment how insignificant those changes made to airflow.

Getting on the CFI web page (you might need an account), you can then do a search for this exact phrase:

Throttle Body Flow Figures

and you will find the posts. I just tried it and it worked.

Not really. The injectors are positioned well above the throttle bore, so they are in a region where there is plenty of space around them for air to move. They are not an impediment to airflow despite what many people here believe(d).

It's debatable whether the injector spray pattern is optimum, so the idea of raising the injectors to improve the spray pattern is, IMO, not worth the effort because proving it's worth would be very difficult. And you won't see a big jump in track or dyno data based on a miniscule change in the location of two throttle body injectors. The wet flow inside the intake manifold and heads has a lot more to do with performance than the slight movement of an injector. And during part throttle, it will have zero effect because the fuel flow shears past the small throttle opening anyway, so injector position isn't important -- the shearing is.

Yup. Crossfire is TBI with tuned/enclosed runners. It just lacks port injection, and the runners are shorter than used on the TPI cars. It was designed by the same people at GM. FWIW.

EDIT:

I want to be clear -- the spacer UNDER the TBI body is useful for allowing both planes of a dual plane intake manifold to better draw air from both TBI bores. In the factory TBI intake manifold, for example, there is only a small window connecting both bores so the spacer helps fix that. The tradeoff involved is that you probably gain more high rpm airflow (and power) at some cost of part throttle lower speed torque.

OTOH the injector spacers don't really do much for airflow improvement, based on Ken73's flow data. HTH.