im planning a 350 build up to swap in for my 305 tbi. its gonna be a 450 hp engine...hopefully. question is: i was planning on making it a carbed engine...but it wont pass emissions like that...could i use a big block tbi unit or something to help pass these damn california emissions??
thanks
rick

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Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
350 on the way!!


[This message has been edited by Black Beauty (edited October 07, 2000).]

 

probably

i think the key is to disguise everything
make your car look bone stock and i dont think they will really probe into things

the 454 tbi looks so much like the 305 tbi that they would have to be really looking it over to notice so like i said.. keep it low key

 

CA hooks up a scantool to read the data stream, man. Unless you 'know' somebody at the garage, that is,,,

 

and? relevance to a visual inspection?

 

CA looks for every single hose and wire, within reason. They sometimes will check the block number, too. Then, they use a scan tool to make sure all the devices are actually working...

 

hmmm...maybe i will have to just like swap it out again when it comes time to pass emissions. good thing i just got it passed in aug. they only check it every 2 years. *sigh* so stressful. maybe i can build it and then put it in my FUTURE project car...the one i dont have...a Nova. or if i find a old f-body. or if anyone has any ideas for a street legal 450 hp engine based on a 350. i heard it was the cam and carb that will make me not pass. thanks.

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Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
350 on the way!!

 

dont worry about it black, there is no way to tell what throttle body you have through your ALDL. Scan tool doesnt tell you anything about what devices are working and what arent because we have OBD1 computers

 

The Snap On scan tool I use constantly shows the parameters that are not working/causing error codes, like "VSS signal not being received"... And the shop MIGHT make you pop the top off your air cleaner, they might not. up to the discretion of the smog guy... They did on mine. And I 'll bet you that if you go in there with a hod-rod, nasty idle/big cam loud exhaust vehicle, they WILL probably pop your air cleaner top.

Again, though, you can just put the smaller TBI on just for emmissions test. every 2 years is what I liked about CA. every 2 years in CT, now, too.

Pablo, can you get 450hp out of 2" TBI???

 

I would love to see someone get 450 with one 2" TB unit and no NOS. HAHAHAHHA, give me a break. Just throw a carb on it. When u start hittin upper 400's in hp thats when I would switch to carb. Much easier and less of a hassle. Unless you want to have a dual TB setup, but that just seems like a waste when you can just have one carb instead.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (dropping in a 355 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-Pablo's Free Mods-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

Ya know, I'm thinking of trying to set up TBI for 350hp (or as much as I can get pretty easily w/what I got) and then changing to carb w/same setup to check power and mileage diffenences. Mileage will depend on final highway cruie RPM, i bet. ie, higher that 2500 rpm on highway and highway milage on TBI vs carb will be close to the same, right? If I get EFI cruise down to say 2000 rpm, EFI mileage will probably outperform carb. What do ya think?

Also, may use ECU to drive distributor/spark and still use carb. this would be the best of both worlds in my opinion and should help low rpm carb mileage. I actually have a ProJection TBI (no spark control and no IAC) system in garage. I HATE Holley stuff but just for an excercise to see if I can get some easy power, I may bolt on the Projection throttle body and make it work w/GM ECU. Any one know of easy connection concerns between Rochester injector posts to Holley injector posts? Probabaly have to cut/splice/slder to do it right but I HATE lley stuff, but it's on the floor and tempting.

Thoughts? Also woulod consider an MPFI system like Edelbrock if I can make it myself and a little cheaper. I have some 24pph injectors right now, too, and that is probably the most expensive part(s).

Babbling, sorry. tired

Oh, I am looking for Rochester 2" TBI. Can anyone find one/have one I can buy???

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited October 08, 2000).]

 

Personally, this will be my setup for my 350HO thats suppose to put out 330hp and 380lbs of torque.

Holley 670cfm TB unit
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake
Some sort of aftermarket fuel pump
MSD Distributor w/ HEI Coil
Custom Prom from Howell
Maybe keeping the 65lb injectors that come with the Holley unit, we will see what Howell can do with them.
Then just bolt on my other mods, (TES Headers, pulleys,open element,spacer,wires...etc...you can see my sig.

I think that this setup (Friend has something almost similar) will work great without going carb + If I want more power, I can just throw on a NOS kit. WHOOOO!!!

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (dropping in a 355 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-Pablo's Free Mods-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

65 lb injectors at 100% duty cycle will not support 330 horsepower
sorry
and eric, no engine is gonna make any power without proper cam and head selection

by comparison 350 TPI motors run 8 22 lb injectors that is comparable to two 88 lb injectors and they only make 245 hp from the factory. You dont see many TPI guys trying to stick with the stock injectors when they really want to go fast and theres a reason for this.

this isnt rocket science here, just use either a holley or GM tbi 670 cfm unit and either big block injectors or an external regulator with a GM injector pod. My 305 is currently using the stock 305 injectors at a little over 20 psi which makes them about 65 lbs each and I have them pushed to just about the limit of their duty cycle.
Id suggest doing the custom chip yourself

 

Pablo, what do you think about the 330hp 350 engine on stock 305 TBI system. Will it work enough to pass NJ emmisions? I don't want to hurt the engine if you think it'll be too lean. Please help. Also my dad has a 350 truck that I can probably borrow the injectors from. It's a 95 suburban. Info, I need info...:-)


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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)

 

Pablo, why would Holley screw up there product? I mean, why would they put such "terriable" injectors on a 670cfm unit? It just doesn't make any sense. Oh well, it doesn't matter anyways. I don't think i am going to do that 350HO anyways. I am probably going to go with the ZZ4 and converting to carb. Probably Holley Q-Jet 750cfm or a Demon 750cfm. If they dynoed the engine with carb then thats what I will go with. GMPP knows that they know what there doing.

 

they didnt "screw up" their product, it works as advertized which is to say its a direct bolt on for 350 tbi trucks. Originally those throttle bodies came with 85 lb injectors.. for a reason problem is people like you wanted to just bolt them on and not worry about tuning the thip so they got alot of them back when they saw that the 85 lb injectors drowned their motors at idle with the stock chip.

As for GMPP knowing what they are doing, you are absolutely correct, they know how to sell their product and they know who to cater to, They know most people are buying those motors for non emissions legal or pre emissions legal applications. As such of course they dyno it with a carb.
Did you ever take economics?

Jprevost
keep in mind that the gM injectors can take ALOT of fuel pressure. Im running 20 psi on them right now and have even experimented with 50 psi. You can get any motor to pass emissions if there is just a tailpipe sniffer with the right tuning.

 

You know Pablo, your a real *****. You think everyone is below you and that you know all. ALL HAIL OUR TBI GOD! F_ck that! I know about cars and I may not be a mechanic but you aren't either. You can keep digging around and talking like your the great one. Keep your 454's you come across while you roll over in your personal junk yard in the morning. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't like him. He thinks he knows everything and I'm sick of it. So don't respond to anything I post ok "moderator" cause I don't need to hear it from you. Stuipd TBI *****.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-Pablo's Free Mods-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 11, 2000).]