I found a holley 670 tbi unit for 60 bux shipped to my door (the deals are out there people!)

i ended up just using my turbo city adapter plate that i spent HOURS grinding on to make work for the bigger throttle body (i mean like a whole day of grinding this is some pretty tough steel)
Changed some fittings over
wired int hte holley injectors reluctantly

I was trying to decide on the injectors
i had a few concerns
1) The injector height and aim of spray cone

the rest of the holley unit was pretty well designed so i figured they probably had the height of the injectors right on to get the spray cone right at the edges of the throttle blades


2) the 'tightness' of the spray cone

as in, was the cone a real smooth spray or did it appear to be innacurate and sloppy

3 the injector flow rate

Well, the holley injectors and pod failed miserably on the first two and i didnt bother with the third (it was way too much anyways)
the holley injectors spray cone looks more like a few individual streams of fuel and the aim is like right toward the center of the throttle blades.. pathetic.

I then installed the GM injector pod, to use my injector spacer i had to grind where the fuel fittings are at the back of the casting to raise it up some
the pod bolts right up otherwise
with only one difference and that is the aircleaner stud hole is missing ill need to drill and tap a small hole for it in the holley to make it work

with the gm injectors the spray is closer to the edges but i still need to raise the pod some more, and the spray cone is that familiar smooth stream that is even all around.

The car feels different, completely different, and its way way way faster i mean it hits upper 3000 rpm and it nearly peels the skin off my face, but it needs to be tuned for the extra air i have a bunch of flat spots upper 4000 and mid 5000 range

the difference is one of the most substantial that ive felt yet i think it could be a half second in the quarter it feels llike the difference between manifolds and headers way back

 

Yeah, Pablo, the spray pattern on the Holleys is terrible and might just as well be in the middle of the throttle blades. IMO, you cannot raise the pod enough becasue of fuel fitting interference probs.

 

Pablo,

At what pressure did you see the "pathetic" spray pattern? Would higher pressure help the issue?

------------------
'92 RS, ZZ4 10:1 350, Edelbrock 6085 heads, Crane 208/214 467/482 cam, GM/LT4 1.6 true roller rockers, Holley Projection TBI intake, Holley 670 TBI, SLP/Jet-Hot 1-5/8" headers, Catco 3" cat, Flowmaster 3" catback, Hughes 2500 stall converter, stock 700R4, Auburn Pro posi w/3.42, 17x9" SS rims w/BFG tires, Medium Quasar Blue w/white SS stripes, 48,000 miles....

 

from 10 to 15 psi (which is what they are rated at they will lock up past 18) they spray pattern looked like a few individual streams right to the middle of the throttle blades

i put my gm injector pod on there with my injector spacer i had to grind a substantial amount of material from the back of the casting where the fuel fittings go to allow it to be raised
works like a charm the spray cone is nice and smooth to the edges of the throttle blades and like i said i just have to drill and tap a hole for the aircleaner stud

 

Hey Pablo, could they just be dirty/clogged injectors giving you the crappy spray? Maybe they'd work better if cleaned up? I can't believe that Holley would sell products like that... especially since I have two of them...

Steve

 

no looking at the tip of the injectors you can actually see a few individual holes which coincide with the streams i see

 

Swell. And cranking up the pressure didn't alleviate it, huh? This just gets better and better...

Steve

 

what intake are you using?

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe holley is right? You were wrong about the adapter...

 

are you addressing me?

if so, you obviously missed something

 

Because Pablo is "ALMIGHTY" HAHAHA. I find it hard to belive Holley screwed up their product that bad. I mean, I can see maybe a little tweak here and there and that is what seperates quality companies from average companies. Well I don't know what I am saying, last time you said this to me....

So maybe "we" are the problem and not Holley?

Pablo, u should be open-minded sometime. Everything U DO is not always going to be the best way. Other people come up with good ideas too and sometimes, even better ones. Just be a little more open-minded is all I am saying. Don't say "Are u addressing me?" like you are royality or something. Listen to what he has to say and try it out. He could be wrong, he could be right.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 26, 2000).]

 

what was holley right about? did i miss something. Do you mean, were they right about how the spray comes out of the injectors?? What?

Just to clear things up, please.

 

91bird Holley does not give two ****s about TBI. I find nothing hard to believe they designed it poorly. Think for a second, if the fuel is first bouncing off the bore it won't puddle on the bottom of the intake. However if it does not bounce off the bore it's going to travel at a greater force and puddle right at the bottom.

 

I am just a light weight on this stuff, but I have sure read a lot of stuff on this board about holley's TBI injector problems and difficulties with the TBI projection intake. Seems to me like Pablo is probably right.Lots of manufactures screw stuff up no matter what the product. At LEAST he noticed that something is
up with the injectors ( dodge type?) NO offense to anyone.....bob

------------------
91 camaro RS convert
t-5
open element air cleaner
TBI spacer
Flowmaster muffler

 

That incomprehensible, please do a better job of gathering your thoughts next time.

If you are trying to **** me off its working really well, every post you seem to find fault with things I say. Im asking you to stop or i can see to it that you wont be able to continue stirring things up with your nonsense

Macgyver made a comment probably related to the adapter plate and i have gone over this many times before why the holley adapter is probably better for most applications but ive found some new things to fix one of the problems with centering the tbi rather than moving it forward to correct fuel distribution issues like a bandaid. Has to do with IAC and throttle opening if you want to think about it.
Dont even start with this condescending attitude bull****, 90% of your posts you are talking out of your rectum because youve never done any mods yourself and are the quintessential high school bench racer. When you actually try some stuff rather than proclaim the wonders of this ZZ4 you are "going to get", perhaps id value your opinion some more. As of now, its meaninless to me mainly because you dont have any factual basis to substantiate the things you claim.
thanks, have a nice day

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited October 26, 2000).]

 

Gee thanks Pablo. HAHAHA.

1.) I do my own mods but I don't do gears or tranny mods, I leave them to pros.

2.) I am in college

3.) When did I proclaim wonders of the ZZ4? Its just in my sig. Thats it. It doesn't say, I am dropping in "THE ALMIGHTY, ALL POWERFULL, Z Z 4444444! MWHAAAAAA!"

Come on man, lighten up. You get to worked up over anything. All I said was to maybe listen to the other people. Thats all. And you blow up. Man. And don't threaten me.

Get Blown, man that sucks that Holley is like that. I figured they were maybe our ray of hope kinda. Cause aren't they, besides a couple small companies, the only people that really make aftermarket TBI injection systems for us? Who else makes aftermarket tbi injection systems for throttle body? Does Accel or Edelbrock? I but I don't know how good it really works. Thanks Blown.
think I have seen stuff for us from them,

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 27, 2000).]

 

Turbo City is big into TBI, as well as Howell EFI. I forget the web stie for Howell, but www.turbocity.com is a good one. Maybe www.howellefi.com or something. I agree that Holley is not the best company when it comes to the "little" things. And, Pablo might have a valid point. Lets not get all worked up over this, everybody has thier opinion. Maybe the one that Pablo recieved does suffer from poor injector spray. Holley injectors have been known to spray like crap, I know mine did. And, it's not uncmon to find design flaws in aftermarket go fast goodies. There is no such thing as a "bolt-on" with many cars, but that is where the fun is at. I had problems with my Holley, but a friend has the same setup with no problems what-so-ever. Maybe the quality is inconsistant a little, and you only hear about the problems versus hearing about the praises.

------------------
Jerry

-------------------------
89 RS Lt Blue T-Tops T5
355 Crate, Compucam 2040
Pst Front Hotchkis Rear
Edle. TES 3" Flowmaster
Harwood hood, bla, bla, bla...
94 Z28, LT1 6M, Black
Most of the bolt-ons
-------------------------

 

Yeah thats very true. Thanks man.

 

First of all, 91bird305. The way Pablo asked if you were addressing him wasnt "High and Mighty" it was "Zar-like". The reason behind his response is he couldnt tell if you wanted him to respond in the first place.

And yes, Pablo has been around the block a few times. He's tired of all the whinny babies that think a chip and some exhaust work will beat a 5.0.

89rs355, TurboCity hates TBI's. Why? The techs that answer the phone only know very little when it comes to TBI's. Sure they'll sell you bigger injectors, TB spacer, AFPR, and so forth but they dont know any actual tech info you need to make an educated choice. Well, only one person at TC that knows TBI's is the owner of the company. You hardly ever get to talk to him. (no flame intended)

As far as Howell goes, there in the same boat. The techs only know applications, they dont know if a truck TBI will fit a car.(no flame intended, either)

So, Pablo is the TBI Champ hands down. And he's got the bloody knuckels to prove it.

 

i too have had problems with my throttle body. i think that holley seems to have dropped the ball on this one. they were complete and total a$$holes when i called them to ask a tech question. i am NOt happy with their customer service at all. oh well. whattaya gonna do.
-brian

------------------
1991 Camaro RS
----------------------------------------------
Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops

GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, Edelbrock TES Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, Accell Superstock Wires, Cap, and Rotor, MSD Blaster Coil, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler

700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler

Brian's 1991 RS

Central NY F-Body Association

z28boy@twcny.rr.com IM name: Z28 Boy

 

I dont think holley is our ray of hope, i think they were just trying to make some money off of what they saw to be a market that had no competition, which it doesnt, so, now competition means that they dont have to improve very much, if somebody else made a new tbi, then both would compete and you would have a cheaper better tbi.

im so dedicated with the redesign its not even funny, however i have seen that it is more than i thought it would be, so next semester im going to take some engineering classes, just for the tbi. Maybe ill have a new tbi on the market in a year.
Well, i can dream cant i.

and,

All this fighting, wtf for?


------------------
Gestapo?

ENGINE SPECS:
305 TBI,Open Element,K&N 14x3,Hypertech Stage I,160 Deg. Thermostat,454 GM TBI

STEREO SPECS:
JVC Kalmeleon kdlx3,Infinity Kappa 2way 6x9's,PPI 4x6 Coaxials,PPI PC2400 AMP @ 2ohm
DEI Studio 12" 4ohm DVC,Custom Box:Exactly 1 Cubic Foot

 

The best way to get a company to change their products is to complain and suggest improvements. Put a letter together and tell them what youthink about their product. Tell them what your using it for too, mabye someone will special design a TBI for out vehicles. I just bought 2 Holley 670 TBI units for 350's, I'm going to use them on my 427, and if they don't work out good I'll definatly be sending them a nice long letter. Sitting here fighting about it isn't going to do anything but **** everyone off.

------------------
1992 RS
327, Modded TBI, Rebuilt WC T-5 5-speed, PRO 4 15" rims, Nitto's, 3.73's, SLP 1 5/8" headers, and a few other things.

 

Have to give my .02 worth.

A few months ago, I asked Holley about the 670 TBI for our cars.

They told me it flat out won't work well for our cars.

They made zero effort help me figure out if it could be made to work.

They did suggest for what I wanted to do I could buy one of ther $1,200 to $2,400 Direct Fuel Injection packages.

(I've got TBI injection, why would I want to buy it again?)

So think about it, they much rather sell a few $1,200 to $2,400 packages than a lot of $300 TBI's. It's easy for them to control the set up and trouble shoot if we have to use their package. It's way harder to help us when we all do something different with 670 TBI so they really don't care about that part of the market with our application.

 

I was referring to you Pablo, no flame of course.. Remember back when you said the Holley adapter was all crazy and ****? Maybe it's the same thing with the injectors, just a thought...

 

Would there be some way to maybe mount some fine mesh screen under the injectors but above the bores that would help break up the raw streams of gas??? If the only problem with these units is the stream of fuel - that is just begging for an easy fix.

Steve

 

no flames taken mac, and i meant no flame myself (to those wondering, mac and I get along just fine, have even met in person, and no flame was implied in either direction.. perhaps a little poke )

i thought about that, but i couldnt find any reason why their injector setup would be better or even as good as the gm setup. The notion that the gm injectors and setup were better werent my idea ive seen that on other lists from people far more experienced and their explanations made sense im just regurgitating what ive read and subsequently observed

and tbi master im not the tbi champ you have me beat by far in that dept but thanks for the sentiment