Can someone give me a list of relatively inexpensive(i.e. no superchargers) to get my 305 TBI into the 250-275 Hp range? I'm confused as hell of what to do. Haha, I have an L03, let's all laugh, but then seriously, I'm not ditching the engine because I don't need to run 10 second 1/4 miles. I'd be fine with 250-275 HP to put away most ***tangs on the block. I can do fairly well, but some bitch driving a 96 Cobra keeps eyeing me at work. I know she wants a piece, and I want to give her the worst experience of her life: loose to a 17 year old in Americas real car. Anything is good, all suggestions welcome. Prices would be nice also...

Dave
92 Camaro RS
305 TBI
Dynomax Cat-Back
K&N Shiz
Fully Upgraded Audio
I hate Japanese cars

 

you can read the post a couple rows down for your info. do a search.

 

I'm gonna be in the same situation pretty soon guys. So i'll need help too. Should have a '91 RS within the next 10 days.

Try a muffler cut-out, which is what i plan on doing. Also go to the tech articles section of this website, and go through the "ultimate TBI" sections, there should be some cool stuff there, on air intakes and related stuff.

Also try this website http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

From what i know, headers are a very good option. Even though they'll prolly run you into $350-$500. There's no way you'll reach 250 hp w/o them though.

 

DONT SPEND 500 FOR HEADERS PLEASE. this is a huge amnt.

 

50-state legal Headman headers with Y pipe = $309. shop around

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Torch Red with black hood and headlights =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

I have heard good things about Hedmean Headers, the Edelbrocks are 313.00. SLP's are a bit more but from what everyone says, there well worth it.

 

Hedman headers are junk. My friend had them on his IROC, and they leaked really wern't built too great. If your going to get headers then save up for SLP, better quality is worth the money. I have SLP's and haven't had a single complaint about them.

 

Get a 100 h/p shot of Nitros and that will put you right at 270 h/p.

Cheap and not that hard to install.

 

headers are not something that a stock 305 needs unless u want no low end *****. Exahaust cut outs and tbi spacers aren exactly going to get u n e where near 275 hp. If U want some power get a cam (200$), intake and have ur heads ported and polished. That should get ur goal. Also rear end gears(500installed), torque converter(200+) and a shift kit(25-50$) would help alot. Maybe a full second between those 3.

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html
-------------------------
1985 trans am
factory bright yellow
4 wheel disks
16 inch wheels
305 TPI
power antenna and mirrors
t tops

 

And if u want to get any power out of that cam of ported/polished heads you will need a set of headers.

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited January 24, 2001).]

 

The basic major probs with the 305 tbi is that the air intake and exhaust are way to restricted. free them up a little and get a nice cam and intake manifold. and i have learned all of this on the board in the last few days. but it all makes since. hope you roast the broad with the "garden snake"

 

LT1 roller cam = $50
Torquer 2 = $100
3rdgen open v6 rear $60(then put a posi in yourself)
4thgen rear with disk brakes, good gears, and posi= $300+

don't port and polish the stock heads. Get some 305 TPI ones at least. Headers should be great but beware of loosing a lot of low end without further mods and or gears.

[This message has been edited by Tas (edited January 24, 2001).]

 

Here's what i did to my LO3 and i get 13.9 1/4's:
edelbrock headers
hypertech chip
the bigger improvements
ultimate tbi mods free
125 hp nos kit 513 from summit racing #5153
3.73 rear $173
flowmaster muffler
no cat

 

[quote]And if u want to get any power out of that cam of ported/polished heads you will need a set of headers.[/qoute]

well either he spends his money on headers for a stock 305 or he acctually mods the motor. The smart thing to do is mod the motor. reguardless of what eric says it would be smarter to put ur money into heads and cam before headers. Its just not a very sensible mod for a stock 305. With heads and cam u can easily pick up 50hp to the rear wheels. Headers, u will be luckey to get 15 rwhp.

 

I wasn't talking about his stock 305. I was talking about when he put that cam and ports/polish's his heads. Headers will wake up those mods amazingly.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

why the hell would you pull the heads off only to bolt them to stock crap TBI exaust? The manifolds are 1.75" outlet to single 2.25" exaust! thats fricken lame!!! If you're on a budget you can work some TPI heads over and put the TPIs exaust on. That has 2.25" manifold outlets to single 2.50" or 2.75" exaust.

Headers are a fine mod. Once you open the exaust you can go change the intake manifold and get some 1.6 rocker and or get a better cam. Gears are also a major consideration after headers.

[This message has been edited by Tas (edited January 24, 2001).]

 

Glad someone smart finally replied. I didn't see what advantage it was either to put a aftermarket cam and port/polish the heads and then throw on those s*itty exaust manifolds. If I was u man, go with the headers first. SLP's is what everyone seems to reccomend but I like my Edelbrock TES headers as well. Then work your way to the block.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

ok so ur telling me that headers are a smarter mod than heads and cam?? Even if he has to wait a while for a better exahaust he will notice a buge improvement off heads and cam with the stock exahaust. So i ya i guess headers are good on a modded motor, not for a stock 305

 

No, but going to the trouble of taking off the heads only to put the stock exaust back on is insane.

Maybe, but huge? no. Doing the headers after the heads and cam will no doubt give more HP than doing them before.

Who stays stock?

You guys don't have to be nit picky jackasses because someone advises doing mods in a different order than you.

[This message has been edited by Tas (edited January 25, 2001).]

 

Thank u Tas.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

no **** but if he had to choose between either having heads and cam doen or putting on a set of headers i think the heads and cam would be the smarter one


no he would notice a hige difference in power. Alot more so than just bolting on a set of headers to his stock 305. Also i never said headers arent good for a modded motor but not something very smart for a stock 305 unless u like having no low end nutts.

hmm check his mods. if u think bolting a set of headers on to his current set up is smarter than head and cam work for almost the same price than ur pretty dum

ok well i guess i seem to be the wrong guy in this one huh. ok goahead and blot them headers up. U will notice one big difference. Ur suddenly making alot of noise and not moving nearly as fast. Ill be looking for his post"lost low end after header install" hmm sound familiar eric???

eric shut the hell up, u had no idea what ur talking about and it seems everytime u do a mod its done 2 and 3 times again so i dont think he needs advice from u. Infact y dont u name a mod u did right the first time. I mean u had to change ur gears several times. U are already talking about going with bigger headers and i cant count how many times i hear u talking about doing something to ur tbi spacer. BTW i luv ur new sig "it aint stock" i guess with ur heavy mods u can hit up the 1/4 and throw some 10 second passes huh and dont even say that u have more mods than me, if i wanted to i could drop a brand new 350 in either one of my cars, but there worth alot more stock. Im sure u will find out if u ever try to sell ur car

 

Um ok. TransGo,Tires,STB,spacer,open element,pulleyes,headers,exaust,chip,MSD ignition,tranny cooler(tranny shop did that though as for the shift kit) gears(nothing is wrong with them.) Ok, how is that?
I changed gears the second time because I bought a carrier 3 posi unit and my previous 3:73's were carrier 2's for my open differntial. So I couldn't put carrier 2 gears with a carrier 3 posi.
Um, I was talking about bigger headers because I wanted to make sure they fit around the ZZ block that I am interested in and 1-3/4" headers are better for 350's than 1-5/8" are, so whats wrong with me asking? Is there a problem with that? And where do I talk about tbi spacers all the time? I don't see any recent topics about it, do u?
Ok smarta$$, quit f-cking rolling ur eyes at me. The reason I changed my sig is because it was to long. I thought it would be easier to just post the website and indicate that I wasn't stock. Is that ok with u d i c k head? Oh, and ur ablilty to drop a 350 at will is so impressive man. Once again, your a coooool dude.

Oh and BTW:, the headers were a great mod, I lost a little bit of torque down low but gained tons 2500+rpm range. Oh and the problem can be cured with a simple resinator in the exaust system. Problem fixed. Tada! I still feel a HUGE improvement over the stock sh*tty exaust manifolds.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited January 25, 2001).]

 

I am going to have to agree with Eric...get headers.

make yourself happy and get a set of SLP headers, they are awesome.

and, head work and a cam will run you a little more than a set of headers. ok i was lying...a lot more.

-brian

------------------
1991 Camaro RS - Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops
----------------------------------------------
GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, SLP 1 3/4" Stainless Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, March Unerdrive Pulleys, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, 8.5mm Super Conductors, Cap and Rotor, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler
700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler
GM 10 Bolt -coming soon Auburn Pro Series Differential, Richmond 3.73s
Brian's 1991 RS Central NY F-Body Association
Join the Third Generation F-Body TBI Web Ring
z28boy@twcny.rr.com IM name: Z28 Boy

 

Ok, so let's say I buy my headers and Y-pipe. I already have a dynomax cat-back, so my exhaust would be done. I've seen heads going for over $1000. It ain't that kind of party. I don't have 1000 bucks to be shelling out on this thing. Don't get me wrong, I love the car, but I'm thinking a cam(about $200, much better) sounds good. Can I get a cam without getting new heads. I want to get my headers, then the Edelbrock TBI Performer Intake(if I can ever find it, where the heck are you guys getting it?)THEN, I will move to the motor, but I'm 17 years old, I don't make millions yet. So what would I be looking at by way of a new cam? I've seen so many of those bastards, and I don't know which to get. Also, how much would it be to install it? What HP would I be looking at with headers, cat-back, intake, and cam?

 

ALSO, (keep in mind I'm 17) What is up with Intake Manifolds? Is that considered an air intake? Because I haven't been able to find an intake for my car yet....

 

lol ok eric whatever u say

well i guess thats that than. Go with headers. Sure u lost all ur low end power but hey it feels a little stronger 3500+ TO have ur heads rebuilt with something like a 3 angle valve job and a little port and polish work wouldnt run u more than 350$. A nice cam wouldnt run u more than 200$ so to me thats pretty close to the price of a set of slp headers. But hey its ur car and ur money so do what u want.

 

a stock 305 TBI really can't take advantage of headers. It's nice to have them on there so when you add intake and cam they will liven up.

If you are choosing what mods to do to a stock 305, same price (or darn close) you will see a bigger gain from cam and intake. The "seat of the pants" difference will be there much more than will headers alone. Then, when you add headers you will get a bigger gain, because now you engine can take advantage of the better flowing exhaust.

I am not saying headers are a bad mod at all. In fact, I usually do them as one of my first mods. But, I don't expect any major gain from them alone. I am merely installing them to have a platform of "base" mods that will improve when I do "real" mods. I have been in 305 TBI Camaros with just headers and just cam and intake mods on seperate cars. The guy with the cam and intake smoked the stocker with headers with little effort.

Once more, headers on a stock 305TBI will not produce the type of power gains that will allow you to become competetive with even most new FWD sedans. Headers DON't make power. The allow for more POTENTIAL power to be produced from your mill. All of what I said applies only to the 305tbi motor.

Of course, all of this is a moot point. The point here is not to build your engine one mod at a time without a good plan. I think we all realize that an engine must be looked at from a complete system point of view. Arguing what mod is better is pointless. Just pick where you want to be and then figure out how to get there. Then, if money is a problem do one mod at a time, but don't expect any "majic" mod.

------------------
Jerry

-------------------------
89 RS Lt Blue T-Tops T5
355 Crate, Compucam 2040
Pst Front Hotchkis Rear
Edle. TES 3" Flowmaster
Harwood hood, bla, bla, bla...
94 Z28, LT1 6M, Black
Most of the bolt-ons
-------------------------

 

Hey Mike, do ur eyes hurt? Who taught this guy how to use the rolleyed face and to quote?!? Wish u really didn't do that whoever u are. Oh and it is 2500+rpms not 3500. Anyways, well I am sure not all of us have 1000-1500.00 bucks to spend on mods at one time. So if I was u kid, go with the exuast first, then the block stuff. Oh, and do u have any knowledge on how to install a cam and port/polish heads or headers? If u don't and u decide to have a mechanic do it (like a speed shop) then I would get more money than planned. Just a thought if this is ur first time doing anything, this is a very big mod for a first timer and I wouldn't suggest doing it all by yourself.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

I'm sure as hell getting it done by a speed shop, because I have no clue what's going on with this thing. Just as I figured out how the exhaust works, something new comes up. So lets say I buy a cam and have it installed, how much would it be all together? Also, same for an intake. How much would that cost to buy and install? Plus, is an intake manifold an air intake? I heard it's just a hole, I'm stupid. Thanks for your help, guys, and quit fighting over this stuff, you're helping me out to dust off a mustang, so help me carry on the tradition of Camaros beating Mustangs, because that is the only scenario I will accept.

 

those 2 will never stop.. they are actually kind of funny... they both make good points on your mods they just love to disagree with each other... ah well
Shawn

 

hey eric guess what...........

89 rs 355 said it best, trust me i know what headers will do to performance of a stock motor. I have been there before along with the whole "true dual" theory, and to be completly honest exahaust will not produce power like some of us may think (eric) True they will be benefit a modded motor but not a stock 305 tbi.


lol ok eric, just keep telling ur self that. I bet it was worth the 500+$ for that mod huh lol

pullmeoverred, as long as u know how to pull ur own heads than ur ok. Just pull them off, take them to a machine shop, tell him what u want and in about a week u will have them back ready to bolt on. U might wanna do a little more research before trying a cam, those can be a little tricky. As for intake, its installation is pretty self explainatory.

 

How would u even f-cking know Mike? U have done none of the mods u praise and dis all the time. So shut ur f-cking mouth and stop acting like u know what power increase u get from them cause u don't. U have never driven in my car and he have not seen my bills from my headers. (Edelbrocks costs 313.00+35.00 for gaskets and another 32.00 for stage 8 bolts. So shut the hell up ok? And quit acting like u know how much torque u loose and how much hp u gain from heads/cam/intake and headers. I am so sick of ur sh*t on here. Your exactly the kind of person I talk about in Tas's "Last Straw" thread. Someone who acts like they have crediabilty but in real life, its just a opionion you pick up from reading posts. Try thing real thing sometime. Its fun.

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited January 26, 2001).]

 

eric how the **** are u gonna tell me. Becouse i havent done a mod to my car means nothing. I thought i remember saying i dont really want to mod my car. Eric i have more experienced with f bodys than u could ever dream of and im 18 years old. Dont ever fukin tetll me what i do and dont know. I have seen all this happen before. BTW eric u base ur whole life on these fukin boards, u know nothing more than what u read and the very few mods u did. U so stupid, ur trying to act like u know becouse u have more mods than me, the funny thing is i m not even trying to mod my car ok and thats 313 for headers but what about the extra 200 for jet hot coating. stupid kid It makes me so mad to hear such a lack of knowledge but its worthless to say n e thing becouse u have that typical attitude again eric end it on that note........u ***

 

Wow....What a little pissing match you guys have going on. But I've got to say, Mike(8T9), back when my car was a STOCK 305, I put on Edelbrock headers, an promptly ran a 14.5 @ 95 mph. Furthermore, I bought the headers used for $125. That was eight years ago and the have not rusted yet. In my book, thats a good bang for the buck mod.

For the guy that started this topic here is my opinion of what you should do;
160 T stat
advance timing
raise fuel preasure
dual snorkel air cleaner (build your own from boneyard parts)

Now a little $$;
manifold
headers
1.6 ratio rockers
cam
heads

All this stuff is listed in the order that I would do it. Have fun.

 

Ok guys here's one for ya to mull over-'92 RS- changed from stock exhaust to '85 stock IROC ex. it has 3" cat.no other changes-Gain= 8 hp + 10 tq.-same set up add TPI-Gain= 17 hp + 70 tq. no that's not a misprint just true dyno numbers. Cost outlay $600 that's 25 hp + 80 tq. over stock L-03.

Don>>>

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)

'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+

 

Oops, sorry this one is closed, somehow I missed most of these posts going up. But two of you just closed this one.

All apologies to PullmeoverRed.

Maybe you can follow one of the other very closely related posts, check the archives for ideas, or simply post again.

Unacceptable. From now on, I think its a good idea for you to monitor your own peers and posts. If somebody posts something on your thread that you dislike or think is unnacceptable, email them first and ask them to edit their post, or email me and ask me to delete their post. We will see how this works for a while.