I am curious if anyone on the board is running a TBI Chip, chip???? Good, Bad, otherwise???? I am considering one, since it looks like I will not be burning my own anytime in the near future......Thanks for any replys to this....Tom

UGLY

So Fast, does that mean that you yourself have used one, and did not like the performance it provided???? Or do you know someone who has used one??? I have seen all aftermarket chips talked down upon, BUT I am simply not able to grasp the concept of doing it myself...Even tho, I am a licensed Ham Radio Operator, it just does not seem like sometihng I want to do....Are there no aftermarket chips that are acceptable??? Thanks once again, Tom

He'll get you running. Of course it won't be dialed in as well as you should be, but if you're like me (who wants to put a bullet in my head while reading the DIY PROM board) then there's nothing wrong with it.

Hopefully later on though, you'll be able to find someone local enough that you can take it to them and get it tuned.

By UGLY, I mean that I have looked over the calibrations and actually run engines on them as well. They do just the opposite of what is needed in most cases. Most aftermarket chips add fuel and timing at WOT and leave the rest alone. Typically GM engines have enough timing at WOT and are already running super rich to begin with.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...highlight=Chip

This is a very typical result of the aftermarket "tunes" you find. The extra fuel and timing make the engine feel fast, but in reality it does not need the fuel or timing. The car would actually run faster with less fuel and stock timing.

You can send tbichips.com the winaldl dataloggings and the chip back until it runs as you like, do you think that would make any difference?

I really dont understand why there not "thirdgen org" official chip tuners to help all of tose who get headaches from that kind of art.

Do you guys with experiance know if I could build up a similar kit for myself as this one:
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=54

but at a cheaper price buying the pieces indivdually. I know the programmer itself with USB hook up is like 190, but what about the rest of the stuff?

Paid $200 for one and it's yours for the cost of shipping. Now that I have started tuning for myself, I realize there's no way in hell that chip would have ever been right. There's just too many variables and things that wouldn't have been realized unless the vehicle was there with him. He's a nice guy and you may have better luck than me, but if I wouldn't have got into tuning, I would have ripped out the TBI and switched to a carb system. Now that I'm learning to tune, I'm glad I stuck with EFI. I figure I'm a little over halfway to where I want to be, and I've burned about 100 chips.

I worked my way up the nifty-gizmo ladder, piece by piece, to get all the stuff I have today. My three best investments the EBL system (if you can get it). a wideband O2, and the Autoprom. Looking back, I might have taken it to a place that would dyno tune it. The end cost would have been about the same, but now I'm free to make other modifications that would require another trip. I'm a slow learner, but I can't count how many hours I've been reading this forum. That's the other cost.

Well Fast, I do respect your opinion, I know you know what you are talking about.....I just cant seem to grasp what I read on the DIY Prom Board...Never was good with numbers...I ordered one today, will let all know if it helps....

What about someone on the Thirdgen board taking our data loggings, and doing chip burning for a small profit...I know for a fact it would not cost alot to burn chips, after the cost of the burner, and other parts were paid for...I sent off 100 bucks for my aftermarket chip....Let me know if anyone is interested in this idea...I for one would not mind paying for a custom chip for my car made by a member who has the same goals in mind that I do, rather than a company just looking to make a buck.....Anyway thanks to all for the replys, and I will keep all posted as to my results GOOD, OR BAD.........Tom

I think the deal is... once you get into chip burning, you realize that theres so many varibles that just taking data and burning what you think will work, or what works on someone elses setup will not always work. Just read some of the problems people have on the DIY PROM forum. Granted someone could probably just burn you something and it would work... but it might not get you the performance you desire or you might be unaware of its potential. Afterall we ARE trying to get the most out of our cars right? Otherwise we wouldnt bother upgrading to performance parts.

I know I wouldnt want to sell someone a chip that makes it so they get worse MPG than they could. Or that has rich/lean conditions, spark knock during certain rpms at certain loads, etc.

I think it would take ALOT of experiance to do what your wanting. I know I want someone I can just say "I am doing these mods, make it run good". But like everything else, I guess if I want it done right, I'll have to do it myself

Quote:
What about someone on the Thirdgen board taking our data loggings, and doing chip burning for a small profit...I know for a fact it would not cost alot to burn chips, after the cost of the burner, and other parts were paid for...I sent off 100 bucks for my aftermarket chip....Let me know if anyone is interested in this idea...I for one would not mind paying for a custom... etc...


ron says:

help is here and it is free. how is that for a deal...

it looks like you already have a "puter"?

Hey Gallile, I've had my car for 4 years now and I've been a member on here for a little while now and i still can't figure out how to do the PROM tuning...its elusive to me and its discouraging (especially when you can't find anyone to show you how to do it, as was in my case). I have trouble grasping it myself...i don't know what else to say, i know my car would benefit from a good chip tune...

I'm also tempted to put my head through a wall reading about DIY chip burning, could you elaborate on what you're talking about? it's got my interest

also as one last thing to throw on, I've heard lots of bad stuff about buying "tuned" chips from companies. does that still ring true for the super-custom ones ordered on a form like this? or is this exactly what everybody has been going on about in the first place?

http://www.fastchip.com/order.txt

I'll throw my 2 cents into this discussion.

I too have opened up a TBI chips tune and I'm equally unimpressed. I would also like to make it perfectly clear there is NO WAY you can effectively tune a vehicle from a list of mods or even from a datalog. There is so much that the data log doesn't tell you and the tuning process would be so slow and cost so much it just isn't worth the effort.

Take 20 minutes and read through my "come in for a FREE tune" thread at the top of the forum. If you still don't think you can get started tuning then you need to sit down and decide if fooling around with fuel injection is something you really want to do. It's no big deal if you can't, you just need to accept that your not a computer person and move on with your life.

Do yourself a favor and listen to the guys who have actually done it, save your money and don't spend it on a mail order chip. If you find you're not cut out to burn chips.....get a carb and keep truckin.

I was just like everybody else when I started looking at the DIY PROM board. I bought an EBL, and its taken many months but I'm getting quite a knack for it. I was clueless at first. The learning curve is incredibly steep at first but it levels out VERY quick. Having the EBL makes things MUCH easier.

Initially my engine barely ran. Once I got everything set up I fooled around with it for a few days and before I knew it my engine was daily-drivable. Getting to this point is probably the most intimidating, however it takes the least time. Just a few days of watching the readouts and learning how they react to throttle/load goes a long way. Once the car is drivable you spend the next new months just perfecting it. THIS is where the beauty of EFI comes out. You can squeeze every last HP and every last MPG out of your engine. Then the next time you mod your car, not only do you feel a big INITIAL difference, but you can re-tune your chip to that mod and squeeze even more out of it.

If you still don't think you can do it, then you should reconsider using TBI. Any EFI system is sensitive to it's PROM tune, and TBI is ESPECIALLY sensitive.

Someone on here modded their TBI to be mass-air-flow system. From what I understand, no chip burning was necessary.

To play devil's advocate though, is that given emissions in many areas; going carb is not an option.

I was the guinea pig with BMmonte last spring, and I also had a TBIchip in my car, it did nothing for me, and BMmonte walked me through some of the chip burning stuff till i got going on my own, and it was the best thing i ever did for my car. I am a computer guy, but knew nothing about the chip burning stuff, and its not just about getting your car to run right, it really makes you understand how everything in your car works and why you need all those little sensors and them working properly. Its definately worth it!

Well, I do beleive you guys...I just cant grasp the stuff I have read, and I have read almost all on the boards I can find on the subject...I did go the carb route on my last thirdgen, but I really like my TBI....I start seeing things like $ signs, and bins, and such, and my head hurts....For now I am going to try the TBI chip, if it does'nt help, well im out 100 bucks....Tom

This is far from a new complaint. It is not THAT hard, you have to take the dive, most of the stuff will not make sense to you, especialy if you are just reading it. Most of it is also not needed. People make chip tuning harder than it really needs to be. I sure wish you were close, I would happily donate a weekend to get your car running, so long as you were willing to learn. That offer is extended to anyone in my area, or who wants to drive to the beautiful NW, and come to Portland.

I have helped many poeple on here with tuning, and there are points, that I just can't tune for them, becauase I am not driving the car. Things like pump-shot, and some of the finer points in timing, you just need to drive the car, to feel it react. Tuning TBI is NOT any harder, than tuning a carb, you are really altering the same few things, one is just done with a computer, instead of a screw driver.

Let us know how the chip works for you, what is really sad, is most people don't know how much is left in their car, until the they finaly get into tuning. Sure you car may run, it may even run OK with a chip like you are getting, but it will never run like it is really capable of. I never knew how well my car could run, until I really got into tuning it.

Dewey318, Thank you for your kind offer...If you were closer I would be there in a heartbeat...Perhaps, I will run into someone in the South Houston are that is into chip tunig...I have called most of the car shops, and even Hi Performance shops in the area to see if they did chip tuning, ut no luck so far...Well at the very least..I will get rid of the speed limiter...I will let everyone know the results...Tom

Yes, you are right that you will be out $100, why not take the dive and buy the burning equipment, and start playing with it, trust me its alot easier to grasp the stuff when your actually using the program and actually do the stuff. And if you spend the money on the equipment and your first chip doesnt work, you can erase it and try another, and do that over and over, where as if the TBI chips chip doesnt work you throw it in the garbage. Also some of these guys get real in depth on some of their chip burning, if you only need or want to change some stuff to get your car to run right, it is fairly easy, all i did was some of the simple stuff to get my car to run right, i didnt take it to extremes and push it as far as it would go and change every setting in the chip possible. Trust me even if you dont mess with the chip for a while or it takes you some time to get a good chip, buying the equipment and doing your own stuff is alot better way to spend your money than just thowing it at TBI chips!

Well thanks for the opinion...I might take the plunge someday, but at the time, im not ready...Hopefully, I will get some results...I think in a simple case like mine it should be good..I mean the car is runnig fairly good right now, I just think it is a little lean now....Anyway I will get rid of the pesky 110 MPH limiter....Thanks again everyone...Tom

Just another 2 cents, i swapped out my 305 for a 350, put all the 350 injectors, throttle body, and sensor stuff on it, and had TBIchips burn me a chip for a 350 just to get my car running right, and his chips couldnt get my car running right, so, take that as you will, the best route is to tune a chip specific to your car. Good luck!

Well, if I have that kinda luck, I will probably go back to my trusty Carb, and HEI setup....I know its a step backwards, but we will see what happens...

I'm glad I kept looking at this thread, it reassures me I can get into this. I probably will now that I think of it (in the future), there's too many reasons to do it to pass it up. perhaps it might even become a hobby, one with many benefits...

thanks for talking some sense into me everybody

Well chip is in, and I am pretty happy.....I also changed the thermostat out...CAR DOES RUN BETTER.....I no longer get a code 32, and dont have that damn speed limiter now.....Not sure how much more is in there with a chip i would do myself.....If it was more than 100 dollars, it would not be worthwhile, but it is for the price....Once again, I am sure if I did my own it would produce more power, but for now this is good.Thanks to all who have replied.......Tom

Must add gas mileage is better...Went to the track, and ran the car lastnight, and was very happy with the performance improvement....

Well......How much of an improvement was it?i too have been thinking about a chip from him for the same reasons.just to delete EGR and what not.My car is an 88 so I don't have to worry about a speed limiter

Well, I cant tell alot of difference with power, altho it is a bit more revvy due to the added timing, and that may be a factor in the milage increase...Ran at the track lastnight, filled up when I got off work drove about 65 miles round trip, and made 2 passes both low 15's...Still have 3/4's of a tank....This is the best milage I have had in the 3 years I have had the car.....It was worth 100 bucks, but I will learn to burn my own, if they are so much better as everyone on the boards says....I was really suprised as I was expecting 16's....I can see hi 14's with just some minor changes....Tom