FNG, Got some TBI questions.
08-27-2001, 06:13 PM
#1
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FNG, Got some TBI questions.
Howdy all,
Well Im the FNG my name is Brother Bob, the army hung that one on me . Now for the good stuff.
I have a 5.7 TBI engine , harness, ECM, complete with all sensors. It came from a 1990 Chevrolet stake bed truck with 44,000 miles. My plan is to install this in my 1949 Chevrolet Truck. I run a beefed up turbo 350 tranny so no messing with the tranny circuit. I need to know if I can strip the harness down to a basic fuel management system ? Has anyone did this here? Any tip / tricks. I dont want to bow down to Painless wiring unless I have too, the kits I need are the 60101 and the 60115. I understand that I may have to run a VSS ? What the hell is that?
Come one come all lets talk.
------------------
A chase is a race.
Well Im the FNG my name is Brother Bob, the army hung that one on me . Now for the good stuff.
I have a 5.7 TBI engine , harness, ECM, complete with all sensors. It came from a 1990 Chevrolet stake bed truck with 44,000 miles. My plan is to install this in my 1949 Chevrolet Truck. I run a beefed up turbo 350 tranny so no messing with the tranny circuit. I need to know if I can strip the harness down to a basic fuel management system ? Has anyone did this here? Any tip / tricks. I dont want to bow down to Painless wiring unless I have too, the kits I need are the 60101 and the 60115. I understand that I may have to run a VSS ? What the hell is that?
Come one come all lets talk.
------------------
A chase is a race.
08-27-2001, 10:58 PM
#2
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How basic of a fuel management system are we talking? There was one new guy on this board that wanted to do away with his ECM, and just somehow supply constant power to the injectors. Needless to say, he got laughed at. Anyways, I'm probably not going to be able to answer your questions, but I'm going to suggest that you narrow the topic of discussion a little. No big deal, but you'll get a better response if you have very specific questions for people to answer.
I lied, I can answer one of your questions. The VSS (AFAIK) is the Vehicle Speed Sensor. The thingy that kicks the limiter in at 110 or whatever gay speed. It might have more duties with an auto, I don't know. I'm a manual guy.
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No guts, no glory.
I lied, I can answer one of your questions. The VSS (AFAIK) is the Vehicle Speed Sensor. The thingy that kicks the limiter in at 110 or whatever gay speed. It might have more duties with an auto, I don't know. I'm a manual guy.
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No guts, no glory.
08-28-2001, 07:20 PM
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OK let me narrow it down a bit . Has anyone here built their own harness for a TBI V8 GM or do you need pictures ?
How did I know you were a manual guy?
Sorry for the sarcasim but I live in the real world of do it yourself.
Brobob
[This message has been edited by brobob (edited August 28, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by brobob (edited August 28, 2001).]
How did I know you were a manual guy?
Sorry for the sarcasim but I live in the real world of do it yourself.
Brobob
[This message has been edited by brobob (edited August 28, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by brobob (edited August 28, 2001).]
08-28-2001, 09:59 PM
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just carb it...
get a manifold and a good carb and your set.
Thats the easiest you could go without worrying about wiring and ecm, crap.
------------------
91 Camaro LO3 RS 5-spd
Open air element, 16in Chrm IROC-Z wheels, dual 30in chrm exhaust tips, Z-28 wing,ACCEL 8mm wires w/cap n rotor, K&N filter, flowmaster, headers in near future. dual fans.
get a manifold and a good carb and your set.
Thats the easiest you could go without worrying about wiring and ecm, crap.
------------------
91 Camaro LO3 RS 5-spd
Open air element, 16in Chrm IROC-Z wheels, dual 30in chrm exhaust tips, Z-28 wing,ACCEL 8mm wires w/cap n rotor, K&N filter, flowmaster, headers in near future. dual fans.
08-29-2001, 08:28 AM
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Brobob
I think I can probably answer some of your questions. You can build your own harness. I have built ten or twelve of them for conversions that were done at my shop. We don't build our own any longer. It just ended up being too much work to be cost effective for the shop to do it. We use and sell Painless products. This is better for our circumstances. I realize that your circumstances may be different.
To start you are going to need a wiring diagram. These are available on the internet or you can Email me at johnegoodman@hotmail.com and I will send them in a reply. Once your have the diagrams it will be easier to decide what to do. I can advise you as to what you should keep and what you can toss. Also you should start thinking about where to mount the ECM. Make sure you have enough wire to get there. Measure your factory harness from the distributor connection to the ECM connectors then subtract eight inches.
Next make sure your mounting location is within that distance of the distributor. If you decide to go with the Painless it is 48 inches for the 60101 and 96 inches for the 60201.
On the question about the VSS it is my belief that you should keep it. It has already been stated that VSS stands for vehicle speed sensor. The VSS input allows the computer to access the Torque Converter Clutch, EGR, Idle air control reset, and electronic spark retard subroutines. Basically if you do not have this input you will eventually get a code. More importantly not having a VSS input will reduce gas mileage and drivability. You can have the VSS, EGR, TCC, and ESC programmed out of the chip but this will cost you dollars to do this and dollars every time you fill up. Every system we build contains a VSS.
Most of this information applies to our typical swap customer. Most of our customers are driving cars that they like but get poor economy. The typical car we perform this swap on gets about 8-10 MPG before and about 14-16 after the swap (no overdrive). I am assuming that you are also interested in mileage, good performance, and drivability. My answer is geared toward this assumption.
John
Heart of Texas Power and Performance
I think I can probably answer some of your questions. You can build your own harness. I have built ten or twelve of them for conversions that were done at my shop. We don't build our own any longer. It just ended up being too much work to be cost effective for the shop to do it. We use and sell Painless products. This is better for our circumstances. I realize that your circumstances may be different.
To start you are going to need a wiring diagram. These are available on the internet or you can Email me at johnegoodman@hotmail.com and I will send them in a reply. Once your have the diagrams it will be easier to decide what to do. I can advise you as to what you should keep and what you can toss. Also you should start thinking about where to mount the ECM. Make sure you have enough wire to get there. Measure your factory harness from the distributor connection to the ECM connectors then subtract eight inches.
Next make sure your mounting location is within that distance of the distributor. If you decide to go with the Painless it is 48 inches for the 60101 and 96 inches for the 60201.
On the question about the VSS it is my belief that you should keep it. It has already been stated that VSS stands for vehicle speed sensor. The VSS input allows the computer to access the Torque Converter Clutch, EGR, Idle air control reset, and electronic spark retard subroutines. Basically if you do not have this input you will eventually get a code. More importantly not having a VSS input will reduce gas mileage and drivability. You can have the VSS, EGR, TCC, and ESC programmed out of the chip but this will cost you dollars to do this and dollars every time you fill up. Every system we build contains a VSS.
Most of this information applies to our typical swap customer. Most of our customers are driving cars that they like but get poor economy. The typical car we perform this swap on gets about 8-10 MPG before and about 14-16 after the swap (no overdrive). I am assuming that you are also interested in mileage, good performance, and drivability. My answer is geared toward this assumption.
John
Heart of Texas Power and Performance
08-29-2001, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for the info fellas,
A carb is out of the question I currently drive this truck 106 miles a day.
This is why I opted for the FI engine set up. I will contact you ( Heart O Texas) sounds like you got your sh_t all in one bag. I am an ASE cert mech and have no fear in doing the swap ,but why stump your toe when others have been there done that. I am curious about what to keep and what to toss ?I have used Painless Harness' before and been happy with quality so that remains an option also. I am making this conversion from a SBC 400 for gas mileage and reliability. Do you think the truck will have plenty of UMPF with the FI set up ? I run a beefed up turbo 350 Tranny and highway rear gear. The truck is clipped and the fat has been trimmed quite a bit.
Thank again Brobob
A carb is out of the question I currently drive this truck 106 miles a day.
This is why I opted for the FI engine set up. I will contact you ( Heart O Texas) sounds like you got your sh_t all in one bag. I am an ASE cert mech and have no fear in doing the swap ,but why stump your toe when others have been there done that. I am curious about what to keep and what to toss ?I have used Painless Harness' before and been happy with quality so that remains an option also. I am making this conversion from a SBC 400 for gas mileage and reliability. Do you think the truck will have plenty of UMPF with the FI set up ? I run a beefed up turbo 350 Tranny and highway rear gear. The truck is clipped and the fat has been trimmed quite a bit.
Thank again Brobob
08-29-2001, 07:17 PM
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Car: 92 RS, 02 Tacoma, 2 73 Porsche 914s
why would you just want it to handle fuel delivery, why not utilize the spark control and other features of a normal stock tbi harness and ecm.
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08-30-2001, 10:49 PM
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"just carb it...
get a manifold and a good carb and your set.
Thats the easiest you could go without worrying about wiring and ecm, crap."
Yeah right! Changing to a carb is a hell of a lot more complicated than that...try manifold,carb,different distributor,different fuel pump,all your linkages will be ****ed up...its a pain in the *** !
get a manifold and a good carb and your set.
Thats the easiest you could go without worrying about wiring and ecm, crap."
Yeah right! Changing to a carb is a hell of a lot more complicated than that...try manifold,carb,different distributor,different fuel pump,all your linkages will be ****ed up...its a pain in the *** !
08-31-2001, 09:36 AM
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Car: 91 Camaro RS Convertible
Engine: 385ci LT1 cnc ported heads big cam
Transmission: 4L60E automatic
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Zexel posi 7.5" rear
For fuel economy I would drop in the 700R4 instead of the T350.
08-31-2001, 02:46 PM
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Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
I also think you should pickup a 700r4. The other advantage of keeping the relatively cheap TBI system is that you get a reliable EFI system that controls spark, fuel, and tcc lockup. In the long run the TBI system is a great if not perfect budget EFI system for a stock to mild engine between 305 and 383 cubes.
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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website
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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website
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