I have taken it all out and changed to carb. I spent almost a year on it and never was happy with all the restrictions placed on performance by all the sensors and the unforgiving programming of a prom. I guess all that time with a TBI 383 wasn't a total waste. I did learn a lot about what I do and don't want to deal with.

 

quiter .

 

You pansy!!! TBI IS AWESOME!!! TRAITOR!!!

 

This weekend I'm going to start hooking up my sensors and stuff so I can start playing with my Haltech. Hopefully TBI is in my future soon. 11mpg is killing me.

Steve

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Steve's Trans Am Temple

 

I say this in the most sincere way. If you can't beat 'em (in this case, carbs), join 'em. And I did.
This is a Camaro site full of Camaro lovers, including me. I would not at all mind having a fuel injected ***STOCK*** 5.7 litre IROC on the side. BUT, as far as greatly modifying anything goes, carbs are where it's at. Simpler is better. We all must take note of the first true muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's...raw, unadulterated power and ALL CARBED! Did you ever notice that when all the tree huggers got involved, cars began having all this emissions luggage managed by a computer. Yes, I know some carbed cars have computers on them. And the end of the original muscle car era ended. Everyone has their right to pursue what they think they can catch. I myself found that tiptoeing around all the computer's nerves was just a pain in the butt. And life is too short to continue in something that doesn't give back what you put into it. Call me a quitTer, call me a pansy, call me a traitor... but you'll be yelling it as I'm pulling away from your slow glutius maximus TBI!!!


[This message has been edited by speedlvr (edited September 07, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by snflupigus (edited September 08, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by speedlvr (edited September 08, 2001).]

 

some people just cant do the computer thing, and it is much more expensive. i would be carb if, 1. i knew anything about them besides how they work. (i wouldnt be able to tune it very well), two, i have to drive 40 miles a day. 3. gas is at $1.80.

 

Carb is soo damn tempting! My first plan for the car when I bought it, was to replace the TBI (and computer, and distributor, etc) with a carb setup. I remember talking to my father about it, and he reminded me that people will pay $thousands$ to convert to FI. Good point. I'm keeping mine, but I'd see where a 383 would need something different.


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No guts, no glory.

 

Yeah, gas is too high to have a gas hog as a daily driver. I have a 6 cylinder 2001 Impala for longer drives. It by no means is carbed but it has it's purpose. I have learned a lot from the TBI'ers. Good luck with all your rides!

 

I understand where you're coming from...but it's really not the TBI! I mean, with a custom chip from Ed Wright, and a new set of heads, the 305 TBI/350 TBI cars can FLY.

I love carbs too...I just put a 850cfm double pumper Holley on my 1970 Roadrunner 440. Just rebuilt her. Now I have my 10-11 second car =D

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1992 Camaro RS (Auto) 5.0L TBI
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Performance mods
NOS (125 HP shot)
Dynomax cat-back exhaust
Hedman headers
K & N open element/ X-Stream lid
MSD 6A ignition
LT1 camshaft
Soon to be installed:
Edelbrock intake manifold
3.42 rear axle
B & M 2400 RPM stall torque converter
Transgo shift kit
Moroso Blue Max plug wires
Torquer heads

Audio
Sony Xplod CDX-M610 head unit
Pioneer 2-way 4x6 front speakers
Pioneer 3-way 6x9 rear speakers
12 inch Pioneer VCCS PRO subwoofer
QLogic sealed box
Kicker ZR360 amplifier
Lightning Audio 1 farad capacitor

Other
Macewen White Faced Gauges/Shift overlay
A-pillar gauges (Phantom oil pressure, Air/Fuel)
180* thermostat
Window Tint

 

Don't forget the new cam,intake,exaust,gears,posi and tranny work too, along with suspension to stick it to the ground. Then it will fly.

I agree though, once u start gettin into real high hp/tq numbers, I think I would want to go carb just because I would be so sick of burning prom after prom to get that dang computer running right with a complex engine. Talk to a buddy, learn about carbs for free and do it that way. Hell, I wouldn't buy a 383 for gas mileage ya know?

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

That's what I say. With a carb, you've got what you've got, you make all of it work hands on. With eproms, you have a middle man to go through to take care of things. This middle man is picky as hell and only knows what you tell him. If computers aint your thing, he'll be dumb as hell. Case in point...if I had bought chip burning equipment instead of the necessary carbed setup equipment, there's no tellin how much longer I would have to wait to see (or maybe never see) the performance I have experienced from a few bolt-ons.

 

TBI is a computer controlled carb, it's simple but the computer part really gets to be a PITA sometimes. I've been burning eproms for a while now and I can honestly say that you have a LOT more control of the engine than a carb ever will. I can adjust idle speed when in park, gear, a/c on, a/c off, max cold idle, max warm idle, etc. That's just IDLE!!!! I really would like to discourage people from staying with speed density EFI. It IS a real pain getting all the values close. Carb basically lets the engine "ask" for fuel and you control the engine speed. As for being simple, I have to disagree with most of you about the carb. The carb has a lot of parts and need to be adjusted, some require the carb to be removed and taken apart. I do the same thing but with a keyboard and a little chip .
If you don't have the time and you just want power, GO WITH CARB and have fun fast. If you have: Time, a little more money, patience, more time, resources/knowledge, some more time, and are good with computers, go with EFI for a daily driver!
I might go with a carb spring of 2002 just to play around but I know I will never get the same kind of gas milage. Lets just say that Ohio State to Princeton (NJ) is 540 miles.
To each his own and let me say it again, unless you have lots of time, go with a carb.

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

I disagree with you on disagreeing with me on carbs not being simple. It is a complex piece of machinery, but all I did was bolt it on and made one adjustment to the idle screw and timing and I was done. That's pretty simple. Instant gratification .You are right about having more diversity with chips and that's great if you need to have all that. But all I want to do is thrash when the neighboring vehicle @ a stoplight beside me wants to see what I've got. And now I can.

 

LMAO, if you think that's all the effort you'll have to make to get a carb/dissy to max performance you are mistaken.

There is no such thing as a bolt on carb or EFI for max performance. It takes tuning and testing. Period.

The one that really gets me are the guys that think they can set their timing by ear.

 

Why is it a pain? The INT and BLM tell you exactly where to put the part throttle fueling. With carb, all you have is plug reading and mpg.

Part throttle timing is easily optimized via the TPS readings. Show me how you optimize part throttle timing on a carb/dissy setup. Cranking the vacuum advance until it pings is not optimizing.

WOT fuel is a matter of starting rich and leaning down until it runs the fastest times. Same with timing....

 

I CAN tell you THIS- That was all I did and the car runs a hell of a lot better than it ever has from that simple effort. It runs GREAT! If more adjustments can get more power then I will do them as I need to and get a neck brace in the meantime. I never said I was finished tinkering with it, but I can say I don't NEED to slave over it like I had been with that sh*tty TBI setup forever. AND...whoever said anything about setting timing by ear? Not me. Keep your responses to what has been said. Otherwise post a new topic. BTW, "what gets you" is non tech.

 

I said it. My point was that some folk idea of tuning is far from what delivers max performance. Somehow you missed that.

 

Brent's point is: Nothing can be bolted on, increase hp and be making the max hp. There is always a little tuning left to squeeze every bit of power.
Now I hope you're happy with the carb but understand that a carb isn't simple. It has to mechanically do everything the computers do with sensors and wires. Anybody will agree that a carb is a slap on easy job but that's exactly what you get. Inconsistant AFR (weather, altitude, etc), danger of engine detonation because no knock sensor timing retard, and the worst part is that too fequent 2 foot stop light stand keeping it from stalling after a quick halt lol. But you can't beat the price! For $150 you can have a 600-800cfm carb bolted to a HUGE variety of intake manifolds without hood clearance issues involving an adaptor plate!

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website