Anyone else see the article call "Hate Me" in Camaro Performers?

They took an older, pre 87 non roller that started at about 220hp, added EQ lighting Vortec heads, XE268H cam, Edelbrock Airgap manifold and 650 Demon carb and got 372hp and 350 in tq. Not bad for a stock bottom end 305.

As the article stated, it's all in the heads.

 

What issue is this in?

 

It was also in Popular Hot Rodding

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...cks/index.html

 

Oh well, a 305 with new heads, bigger cam, and carburetor. Instead of the stock lousy factory computer tune, not the best heads, and lousy cam.

Yeah they better get some good numbers then

 

stock or what they put in? What would you do and still keep a low cost? I would love to peep up my 305 a bit or until i blow it and the wife has to give in to me getting a bigger motor....

 

Shaver's sells the heads for just under 900 with the better springs the article wished they used. You could always sells the heads for a fair loss. So 1500-1800 for a 305 that out performs the lt1 by 100hp and the stock LS1 by 50. I hope to do this over the winter after I get a hood that will allow a carb and decent intake. I'll go back to FI after I get it working right with the carb so I know what it is capable of.

Just think if you add a 75-125 hp shot of juice to that.

 

And a blower.

 

Or you could use vortecs on a 350 or 400 and make more power *shrug*

 

No, you would use something with 2.02" valves or more. Plus add the cost of 350/400.

Some people here are not wanting to pull a motor and/or would like to get the life out of what they have.

To take a chance on pulling a boneyard 350 IMHO is not more COST EFFECTIVE than getting more than 1HP per Cube out of a 305.

The smaller displacement will also be more fuel efficient.

You may say a 305 is a bad design, but people do not use 400s cause of their poor cooling characteristic. Why do you think the 383 is more main stream.

 

Or you could just bite your lip about a larger engine. Everyone is well aware of what a larger engine is capable of. It doesn't need to be brought up every single time a 305 gets mentioned much less when a NA 305 jumps deep into larger displacement's power territory. Not only that but, this engine made more power and torque than the 337 stroker Super Chevy built with TPI for Project Silverstreak. Prior to this that was one of the magazine highlights of what could be done with a 305 block.

I would be interested to see the results of stroking this 305 out to a 337 though. Could be some very interesting results.

 

Yo Mike! Looks like a simple effective build to me. I'd be concerned with longevity taking the stock bottom ended 305 to 6200 rpm consistently, but I guess there's only one way to find out

 

Tony,

You would be a good candidate for that with the mods you already have done. Just swap out the heads and put some headers on. The cam they used should be close to the specs of the LT1 cam you have.

I think a good dampener would extend the life of it. Still got my streetdampier sitting in the garage since I thought mine may have slipped. I keep putting it off cause I rather wait to pull the cam on it.

I know that it is probably not good, but I have taken mine up to 6k stock. I think the lighter rotating mass of the aluminum flywheel and carbon fiber driveshaft help a bunch.

Not sure if I trust the stock tach on that one, but it pulls hard right to 6k when I launch from a stand still when running good gas.

What is the rule of thumb on a two bolt, less than 500hp and 6500rpm?

On another note, looks like they are looking for work out in our PHX office again as well as So Cal. I told them I would relocate!

PS - Anyone feel free to help me with my other post on this page. Still ain't running!

 

nope building a 350 to make 400+ HP is pretty cheap just need to know how to do it
and i dont call $150 for a short block expensive

Most junkyards will guarantee the block is useful

nope the larger displacement of a 350/400 will be more efficient

and 383 is more main stream because it is the FAD now lots of TQ and 350s are easier to find than 400 blocks and somewhat cheaper not to mention that 400 blocks aren't just laying around in piles like the 350 so might be why people aren't building them because they are all accounted for

 

Mine is still getting twisted up over 6,500 rpm, peak HP is at 6,700 rpm with mine. Mine is basically stock on the bottem (Stock crank, stock "X" rods (with ARP studs), stock 4 bolt mains with studs, stock style hypereutetic pistons)

For the guy claiming a 350/400 to be more efficient, he is WRONG. Not even in my heavy G-series van does the 350 give better mileage. The 305 is the champ there.

 

Whatever dude. Point of this post is to show people that have a 305 in there car right now that is in good running condition that they can save some time and money by simply changing out the heads and cam to get some cheap power.

If you are such a 350 fan, you should have bought something with it already in it.

 

That's what I would think based on cubic displacement taking all other variables to be constant. Still need 14:1 AF ratio for each unit of air.

 

I think this post may have just changed my mind about building an LT1... Hell, if I could make my little dinky 305 turn those numbers, I'd be happy with it. I'm not looking to build a lean mean street machine but I plan to build a stout/efficient somewhat intimidating motor (With good gas mileage ). But I did get to thinking, I already have a 350 block ($75), why not just take that combo they did on the 305 and use it on a 350 block? Suggestions please. lol. Or what about this: I already have LT1 heads (cast and alum), has anyone ever seen a 305 LT1 with the intake conversion?

 

There's a set of 081 heads at the junkyard here waiting to be pulled off...it's just too damn hot out! So I don't know if I want to grab those for $100, clean them up, new valves, learn to port etc. or grab some heads like the ones in the article. Either way it should be a cheapie little 305 powerhouse. When I finish up the suspension project we'll talk about a cheap head setup with some 1.6 roller rockers, now just to figure out whose car to do it to!

 

I'd be willing to find out.

btw, pretty sure the 416 heads I have could use more cam and really wake up the car in general.

 

Agreed, did Bill ever mention how much lift they could handle?

 

the 305 350 battle rages on... you know, ford did okay with a 5.0 for awhille and, both the 305 and 350 as we know them are antiques, really fun, loud, adrenaline inducing, head slamming, ***** eating antiques. get over it theres a whole wide world out there and the kid in your rear view don't care how many liters you got.. i've got a pair 350 tpi and a 305 tbi, the 305 gets more respect and is only .5 behind in the quarter right now,, get over it, worry about YOUR engine.

 

i seen the article, it was sweet, kinda made me wana keep my 305 ^^ but the 350 is taunting me

 

AMEN BROTHER!! you can't get a moments breath from defending anything posted on a 305. I think the next time I see any questions regarding a 350 build I'm gonna call the guy a dumb a** for not getting a 427

 

Great article about the buildup on the 305. But....you can't beat cubic inches.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ack-times.html

Did you guys see this thread? 425HP out of a 305 and TBI!!!! Fast has done some pretty cool stuff. This one unfortunately dropped off the radar screen too quickly and a lot of people missed it.

 

I would just love to shoot holes in this, I mean one pass, thrown off the track...could have tripped the lights with the rear wheels Ha Ha

 

305 isnt that bad, i spank tons of ricers, if ur lucky or were smart and got the 350 instead, kudos to you , i didnt do my research before i started camaro shopping, just kinda spur of the moment thing, i was into ricers before, thought id give muscle a shot, but hell few grand and i can have a sweet 350

 

Dyno numbers plus track numbers...I don't know what else you want. Fast has built plenty of 350-400 hp combo's only most of them have been strapped into a heavy van. This one just found it's way into a light weight car.

Several guys myself included have made over 300 hp with little problems once you figure out how to tune these setups. I've seen myself that there is plenty of room to grow with the setup. TBI has it's limits and it's much higher than what most people think.

Seriously Don what's your problem? Did your mom beat you with a TB when you were little?

 

I got a 305TPI motor that I cant wait to tear down and do a mild performance build on which is going in my 91 TBI RS. This will be my second motor rebuild for my car. I'm so excited. I could care less about it being a 350. If I can beat someone else using my 305 than that makes me that much happier not to mention telling the other person you only have 5 liters. My 305 TBI motor went from 16 seconds to high 14s and just the other night I devestated a 4th gen mustang GT (probably automatic too) on the highway from a 65 mph roll. She gets to 120 pretty quick from a roll. Just do what makes you happy, who cares what anyone else says.

 

Is this another one of those magazine engines with no accessories, open exhaust, and every trick in the book? Sounds like it.

 

I wouldn't care if it was, you'd still be talking about 350ish hp out of a 305 without spending 8 billion dollars to do it.


this should be a sticky, and so should fast's thread. maybe a sticky designated to high power 305's or tbi's? engine's that "made it", if you will...

 

neat stuff, whats with the 4bolt 305 from BMmonteSS's link? i didnt think that existed

 

Sure DID, I have 2 of them myself. One was from a 1981 G20 Van the other was the original engine in my 1983 G20 Van.

BTW, using old school technology Lunati built a 343 HP 305.

http://www.hioutput.com/tech/343hp/343hp.html

 

So far my combo has pulled me hard all the way up to 6k and over multiple times with no problems. My combo is close to theirs, but their cam is nicer and those heads are mean. I'm probably sitting close to 280 hp at the wheels, judging by my times. So with drivetrain loss factored in, I'm over 305hp at the crank. So it's very possible to do it pretty cheap. Regular vortec's will run ya around 500 bucks and a LT1 cam around 50. Can't beat that. Now I want to go with a bigger cam and some beehive springs to make the vortec's support it.

 

So where is this package available, and how much?

 

The best deal on the vortec's that I've seen is at www.sdpc2000.com. Scroggin Dickey is a chevy dealership that sells most performance parts at a decent price. The ones in the article would be direct from that company, and would probably run you around a grand for the heads alone. I think the stock vortec's come in right at 500. Then you need to pay 30-50 bucks to get them milled down, and upgrade springs if your running over .470 of lift.

Another option is the edelbrock E-Tec's. They are an aluminum version of vortec's with alot better flow numbers. Not sure how well they would perform on a 305, with the 170cc runners that is. Price I think is between the two above. And I've heard GM came out with two new options on vortec's. One with small ports and one with larger.

 

gm actually released a 305 version of the vortec's a while back, they run about the same price as 350 ones, but only come bare, if I remember correctly.

the advertised ones in the article run at about a similar price to the gm ones(i've checked it out) at about 640 for a pair. they also come bare, but they're supposedly made of better materials and are subject to much tighter regulation (i.e. the ports don't have any flaws from the factory) than their gm counterparts.

of course, the heads alone have relatively little to do with making that much power, and if you were to simply switch out that part, you could run into a few problems.

also, they don't mention(being as it's carb) that the stock 305 TB is too small for that much power, and you'd most certainly have to make some serious changes to your fuel setup(injectors, pump) to make that work. and of course tuning, but that was obvious.

this isn't a simple head/cam/have a nice day package, it's pretty involved. but at least we have a recipe for 375hp success now, and it's nothing too crazy either.

 

If you aren't using a big block or 454 LSX you are killing power potential.

Not everyone wants an unbeatable race car with xxx horsepower. Most people just want their car to be faster, and a worked 305 is much faster than stock.

 

The sad part is that motor probably didn't have any compression really, if they shaved the heads down to 60cc as they said, even with those dishes that was probably an 8:1 engine with 58cc heads; if you consider that GM was pretty bad about recessing the pistons in the bore a lot more than "book," the HG they used from the factory was pretty thin already and that they gained 2cc (if not 7cc from a set of 53cc heads) they could have very well been at 8:1 if not in the 7:1 compression range.

Chances are pretty decent if they would have modded a set of 58cc vortecs and/or had a flat top pistoned short block that they would have broken 400 hp. If you look at the pic, it also has a stock pan on it which means that oil control is probably minimal to none, again another "easy" place to pick power up.

Even with a set of street accessories and exhaust that would probably still be 350 "real" hp.

 

where are you getting those numbers from? because it sounds to me like you're just throwing them out there at random...

if anything I think it'd be safe to assume that it dropped the compression to a flat 9, or somewhere around there. I did a few compression calculations(with a few numbers found through process of elimination, I don't know the 100% of the measurements), and it seems to concur. I could be wrong, but 7!? seriously...no way.

and are you seriously suggesting that they put "performance" oil/oil pan in there for extra hp? while I won't deny that the improved oil flow from an aftermarket pan might do better to both lubricate and cool the engine to an extent, I certainly wouldn't be doing it with the idea of extra hp in mind, I'd be doing it because the stock bottom end is suddenly running at 250% of the power it's been at for like 15+ years...

and I'm not trying to be an ***, if you can really show me some reputable piece of information that backs up anything you just said, please show it, because I flat out don't believe any of that, and I'm perfectly happy to be proven wrong.

 

Why does everyone get all wrapped up about 305s making this kind of power? is everyone a sleep around here? Guys have been making over 300hp with 305s for a long time now, do a search. the easiest way is with 113 casting corvette L98 heads. Camaro Performers made taht much power with no exhaust, no accessories, and all the tricks. Mine would make that stripped down too. I think in the car mine was making around 310hp, I loved it. went 13.7@101 with a dorky 2.2 60ft. I only took it out to put in my 383, I loved that engine. It is for sale by the way if anyone wants it!

 

Lets start off with what we know; A LB9 or L69 with flat tops and 58cc heads is a 9.5:1 rated engine. That engine has dishes and a flat tappet cam, which means there is no "dropping" to 9:1. It having dishes makes it an emissions era engine, and most were 8-8.5:1 with 58cc heads, or if they wanted higher compression 53cc heads. The question boils down to what deck height are you using for your calculations, and how big of a dish are you using in the pistons?

No, Oil control will not net you a bajillion HP but at the same time it will show real world gains in power due to reduction of parasitic drag caused by oil.

 

doh, mixed up my years. okay, so, the 1982 305 LG4(the closest engine to the one in the magazine, and the oldest for a thirdgen) had both flat-tappet and dished pistons, and ran at an 8.6 compression.

i'm still working on it(specifically the amount of dish that came with the stock pistons), but from the point I'm at it's still only dropping to 8.4ish. granted, that still makes me way off initally, but the point I was really trying to make was that upping the heads to 60cc isn't going to destroy your the initial compression.

on the other hand, you're still right. the engine could certainly benefit from a fairly large increase in compression.

basically, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant the 2cc increase in the heads was the reason for the bad compression, not the stock block itself. while the 2cc increase certainly doesn't help what started out as well..bad, it isn't the reason. so...yeah.

say we're both right and call it even?

 

what would I expect to gain with the cam in the mag build, stock heads and retaining my TPI setup with custom Prom. Would also add Headers and AFR. Any idea on where I'd be. I'm not opposed to dumping the TPI and going straight carb, but think the TPI would run nicer

 

Unholy 89,

Look at Tony C's signature. He is running a LT1 cam with stock heads.