I prevously started a thread concerning "Car stalls right after startup". I kinda thought a fixed the problem and finished that thread so I wanna throw this one up here.


Once I get the car running, you can hear a ticking, I took my breather off and saw the injectors were kinda spitting out the fuel rather than spraying a constant spray. If I can recal it used to be a constant spray.....am I wrong?

So, I am maybe thinking that it just isnt getting enought fuel from those if they are clogged. Also, are there any other inline fuel filters? I changed the one out back, but is there one at the inlet of the ThrottleBody as there is with a carb, and if so, which line is it so I can replace that.

And, do you guys think it may be the injectors, and if so, how much are those roughly to replace?

Thanks.

 

In my area, injectors were anywhere from 80 to 180 each...depending on which parts store and whether rebuilt or new. I sent mine to Advanced Injector Service in Tuscon for a good cleaniong as mine were also giving me a steady stream insteada of a spray.

Now I get a spray but it still won;t continue running.....dies after a second or two.

Oh BTW they charge 25 each to clean plus shipping. Cost me 70 for both.....got there info off this website. one of the sponsors

 

Mine isn't a steady stream, its more like a sputter. Answer me this...... at idle, is yours a constant perfect unbroken spray, it does it kinda spit out.....? Hope that makes sense. And thanks for the other info by the way, and do you know if we have a filter in the line at the throttle body?

 

Someones gotta know the the spray patterns of these things?

 

No filter at the TBI inlet. Only the main one back by the tank.

The spray pattern should look like a nice even cone of fuel. Even though it is pulsing the eye integrates it into what looks like a steady flow of fuel. The cone should strike the bores just above the throttle plates.

A timing light can be used to stop action the fuel spray. Move the pickup from wire to wire for stopping the action at different times. At certain plug(s) there will not be any fuel flow showing.

RBob.

 

Thanks for the info, I have a questiong, so, with a good injector, it should be hitting the bore sides and not right onto the throttle plates. I think mine might be hitting that too.....you think my injectors need cleaned?

 

Increasing the fuel pressure widens the cone. An injector pod spacer also moves where the cone strikes upward in the bore. I can't say whether your injectors require cleaning or not.

If the majority is striking the bore, taht usually does the trick. Some on the throttle plates (at idle) is normal as it bounces off of the bore walls.

RBob.

 

Well, I did indeed have a spacer between the TB and injector pod, not now though. My dad and I took the fuel lines off and fired the pump to make sure that worked and plenty of fuel came shooting out. So, it has to be somthing either in the injector pod or either the injectors. That spacer I threw out because it was dry rotting and was no way I was keeping that on there.

So, I think I am gunna go to the junkyard and get a whole other injector pod with injectors. I think I will ask if they have a TB off a 350 Caprice car.

Is there anything in the actual pod that could go wrong, any filters or anything in there?

If not I could just buy injectors, but then again, how do you take the last 4 screws from the underside of the pod out. They seem to be behind to where a tool can't reach.

Anybody please post opinions and whatnot.

 

Regarding the fuel filters, there are filter screens on the injectors themselves. I forgot about those. The screens are very fine and can clog up. They are included in the full rebuild kits.

Can R&R the injectors with the pod still mounted to the TBI unit. The screws on the bottom of the pod are for the FPR.

The fuel flow should always be checked under pressure.

RBob.

 

Dang, I already ordered a new pod with 55lb. Injectors, hopefully it will solve the problem, if not, I will be back in here. Wish me luck. If this doesnt work, I went through the whole fuel system pretty much and it will have to be a computer or electrical related problem. If this doesn't work, I will just have to take it in somwhere, I don't have much knowledge on this stuff to try anything further.

 

Alright, just finished putting the pod assembly with new injectors on the car. The car actually started up but is still doing the same thing. Right when you start up the injectors are actually spraying a healty cone but still dies out. My father was watching it and said when I turn the car on it gets gas, but then gas dumps out when it stalls. What else could cause this problem. Do you think the computer chip has gone bad? Could a vacum leak cause it. I will have to most likely take it to someone, but who?


This sucks.

 

sounds like we are really having the same issue...I have rebuilt the TBI, new diaphragm in the FPR, new IAC, new MAP sensor and new CTS and it still sputters then dies after starting it.

i was wondering if maybe it had to do with oil pressure since the injectsors are supposed to shut off if less than (I thinkl) 6 lbs of oil pressure.....

Any of you gurus have any more ideas?

I am about ready to take mine to a shop......then sell it.

 

The oil pressure switch doesn't cut power to the fuel pump (FP). It is a backup if the FP relay or ECM driver goes out. It will keep the fuel pump running.

It is possible that the ignition module is bad. The ECM needs to see distributor reference pulses (DRP) in order to fire the injectors. During crank the ignition module is in bypass mode and ignores the EST signal from the ECM. Once the ECM ses that the engine is 'running' it switches the module into EST mode.

It is possible that when the ignition module switches to EST mode, it stops sending DRPs to the ECM.

It may also be the distributor pickup coil is intermittent. Once the engine starts the vibration opens the coil and no DRP.

Do something to test the spark during crank & engine start up. Either a timing light or a plug wire on an external plug. See if the spark dies off just as the engine starts. If so, then there is most likely an issue with the distributor (module, pickup coil, connector, etc...).

RBob.

 

It's really funny you should say this. My Girlfriends father came over today and actually checked for spark. She has spark. He took the plug out, and put his finger in to acknowledge when that cylinder was fireing. We noticed that when 1 is firing that the timing notch should be at the top of the crank. It was about 45 degrees off, way off. So, his mechanic thinks its jumping the timing. He said he will charge me 150 to put a new timing chain and gears in. He thinks they gears might be messed up. So, would you say this could be a reason of my problem? He is gunna take a look at it next week.

 

An easy test for timing chain wear is to:

Remove the distributor cap so that you can observe the rotor.

Turn engine counter-clockwise until the rotor moves.

Note location of damper/crank/pullys on front of engine.

Now turn the engine clockwise while observing rotor.

!! Stop the instant the rotor moves !!

Note the distance the engine needed to be rotated for the rotor to move. It should only be a small amount, 5 degrees or so. Any more, or a lot more, and something is wrong in the timing set between the crank & cam.

RBob.

 

And to your knowledge, do you think this could be the problem with my car......meaning, I start it, it runs a second then just stalls.

 

Hard to say whether it is a timing set issue or not. It may be that the damper slipped and the mark is no longer in the correct position. Not being there makes it difficult to diagnose.

RBob.

 

This may be a stupid question, but have you checked the O-rings on the injectors, because if those are bad or arent seated properly you will get a steady stream of fuel that drips out the bottom, the fuel ends up pooling in the pod. just a thought

 

Well. I actually bought a whole new injector pod, in which has the car running the same as when it was on the previous injectors, so they should be fine.

I got another thought, was talking to my uncle, he used to have a truck of the same year, had the same problem, he is telling me that if the fuel pump isnt pushing enough pressure it wont cut off a sensor that will let the car start or sumthing, he thinks its just the fuel pump, he said when he replaced his, it worked great again.....any opinions?

 

Alright, so we have a final thread closing. I had a mechanic come over and he thought the car wasn't running because it had jumped timing, which wouldn't make sense because of the conditions of the car but what the hell. He said he would fix the timing, put a new timing chain in and all that for 100 bucks. I ordered a double roller true roller and a new cover along with a new cap and rotor and also spark plugs. The timing was a bout 45 degrees off. All in all, the mark in the harmonic balencer was wrong, so he fixed that. He found out that is was the fuel pump not having enought pressure, so I ended up having to get that bought and changed as well. So it turns out the whole problem was the fuel pump, just didnt have enought pressure to stay running. Car runs great now and for all the work he did he charged me 225. Not to bad, and she runs like a bat outta hell. So ya, after a month, I am finally happy again.

 

Well, I have abbout determined mine is also fuel pump. Getting @ 6 lbs when pump running.....JUST determined that today after I bnorrowed a pressure guage from a friend that has a fitting that exactly fits where the fuel filter goes. Going to test with brake cleaner to see if it runs just to be sure....

Seems like someone early on posted it was probably fuel pressure....

]BUT D*&^ what a pain in the rear ro change....

 

Ya man, I guess were supposed to have like 13lbs at all times of the pump running, so it sounds like you had the exact same problem as me. Change it and hopefully ull be rolling again like me. Good luck man.

 

Well, got the fuel pump replaced finally. And dang if the car doesn't actually run aghain....

Had a hard time getting the fuel tank OUT once we pulled everything loose. It was just plain ol' stuck. Had a friend help and we just pulled till it came out. Heard a couple of 'pops' when it bvroke loose.

Drug the tank out from under the car and looking at the pictures, you'll see why it wouldn't come out.

 

Dude, thats really great to hear, when I saw ur post that was posted around the same time I posted my post and thought it might be the same thing and turns out it was is crazy. Damn, hope that made since. Atleast I actually went on and finished this thread to let everyone know what the cure was, some people dont finish the thread and leave people hanging, glad to hear it was the fuel pump as well.....are you gunna keep the car now?

 

Are there two holes in the back of the tank? Was something mounted to hatch side of the axle hump?

{edit}

Lol, yes, there are two holes in the back of the tank. I saw the second pic first and now see the first pic. Guess a previous owner was worried about the tank falling out. Yikes.

{end edit}

RBob.

 

Oh yeah I'll keep the car. That was just frustration talking.

The screws I THINK were there to hold an amp or sub or sumn in the trunk. When I bought the car, there were a lot of wires running from the stereo 'head' and a power cable from the battery to the trunk. I ripped all that crap out. Did NOT see those screws under the carpet though.

Put a couple of sheet metal screws in them and JB weld over that.....no more holes.